FOX HUNTING OPINIONS PLEASE- Pro and Anti

[Ereiam_jh]

How could he have known precisely what it would ban then when he doesn't know what it bans now.

Do you know precisely what the law bans?

Could you tell us?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Furthermore how could he have known precisely what it would ban when parliamnt were actively still debating it and redrafting the Act.

Is Hercules clairvoyant?

Hercules do you have the gift?

Or have you already answered my post?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Ah yes, I think you'll find he answered it in a thread last week.

No he isn't clairvoyant.

 

[avalcalab]

The first hunting bill was presented to and rejected by the unelected second chamber in July 2003. People were still signing the declaration then. That's why the CA produced a page on their site entitled "Your questions on the Hunting Declaration answered. Tuesday, 28 October 2003".

But the timing doesn't matter anyway. If you look at the actual declaration you signed, you pledged:

"Consequently, we the undersigned declare our intention to disobey, peacefully, ANY LAW PURPORTING TO BAN HUNTING; any such law would be manifestly unjust." [my caps]

You didn't pledge openly to defy the law, UNLESS WE COULD FIND ONE OR TWO LOOPHOLES. You promised, quite explicitly, to disobey any law purporting to ban hunting. You broke this promise.

The other sad point is that hunts are defying the ban even without using loopholes. Cubbing is still going on, so is olde-worlde hunting with hounds. You've not just broken your pledge in the hunting declaration, you've reduced yourselves to acting like common criminals: you've prepared for yourselves an unsavoury diet of dishonesty and cowardice.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"You didn't pledge openly to defy the law, UNLESS WE COULD FIND ONE OR TWO LOOPHOLES. You promised, quite explicitly, to disobey any law purporting to ban hunting. You broke this promise."


mmm intersting it seems I might be one of the few people publicly abiding by the letter of the Hunting Declaration. As do publicly and peacefully disobey the Hunting Act.

Even though I didn't actually sign it.

:smirk:

 

[Ereiam_jh]

If I go out and deliberately break the law then what am I but a common criminal?

What on earth is wrong with being a common criminal. What other types of criminals are there?

It seems most unfair to expect me to be anything else.

I am after all a member of the common people.

As a common person I asert my right to be a common criminal.

 

[Hercules]

Avalcab,

Why do you insist on complaining? LACS and its supporters got the ban that they had spent 80 years campaigning for.

In one breath you criticise the hunting community for not abiding by their declaration to continue hunting. In the next, you criticise them for hunting and therefore acting like 'common criminals'. What is it to be?

''dishonesty and cowardice''

Something to which you and the little people are well acquainted

 

[avalcalab]

You may be committing the crime of being a bore but I doubt whether you're infringing the Hunting Act with your childish attention-seeking stunts in the undergrowth, so relax.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

What, so your saying it IS legal to pursue wild mammals with dogs?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I get the horrible feeling we're going to get to the same conclusion that we did with RS and Karl, that actually chasing, flushing, scent trailing, stalking wild mammals with packs of dogs IS actually still legal.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Oops I forgot searching with dogs. That's legal too?

 

[Hercules]

Avalcab is all confused. Its little mind is clogged up with fantasy. It can't remember what it has said, its arguments are collapsing and it is in danger of embarrassing itself.

A pitiful sight, but not unexpected.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Which of the activities I've mentioned are illegal A.

I've taken them all either from the text of the law or from Government advice.

Maybe you have the answer.

 

[flying_change]

You're at it again ! I dont believe I agreed that. Consider your wrist slapped.

However, to be formal for a moment. I hereby place you on notice that if you continue to misrepresent or misquote my statements or beliefs I may consider a legal remedy.

RS

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Just trying to draw you in. Actually what you said was that you didn't know if chasing wild mammals with packs of dogs is legal or not.

Isn't your view that the law shouldn't be intelligible until a judge decides what it is?

Completely unclear laws are a foundation of our illiberal democracy.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

One can imagine the headlines.

"An internet forum user flying change aKA RS is suing a character from a Tolkein children's story in the high court today.'

Solicitor for RS.

'I haven't got a clue what is going on, but I'm hoping the Judge will.'

I will marshal my legal team.

 

[flying_change]

Is that an apology ?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

No, it's a piss take.

You're not actually upset are you?

I gthink I may have got your positions wrong actually I think they are something like this.

You don't know if deliberately using dogs to chase wild mammals is illegal.

You think that flushing out and stalking is illegal but only if you then chase.

Karl thinks that flushing out and stalking are completely legal and chasing is illegal.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that is my best understanding.

:grin:

 

[Hercules]

''I hereby place you on notice that if you continue to misrepresent or misquote my statements or beliefs I may consider a legal remedy.''

Really? There s more chance of A-A getting prosecuted for his illegal acts, if they are illegal. Who knows? The police don't, the CPS dont, no-one does.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Just for the record, it's worth noting that avalcab is unable to answerrt this.

It's the questions they don't answer that are most revealing.

 

[flying_change]

An apology would have been accepted. Pity you didnt make one.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Do you think you're being a tad precious RS?

 

[flying_change]

You have been deliberatly misrepresenting my statements and beliefs. Apart from anything else, this contravenes the forum T+Cs. There will be no more warnings.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Rubbish you admit that you don't know what the Hunting Act bans and doesn't ban yet you support it. You think it is up to the courts to define what it bans and doesn't ban rather than parliament.

You are unable to say whether it is legal or illegal to search for chase, stalk or flush out wild mammals with dogs.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"this contravenes the forum T+Cs."

Just out of interest where does it say that?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I bet if you answer you'll say 'what you have poisted is wrong and that's against the forum T&C's'

What a vacuous way to debate that would be.

 

[Shoveller]

Lets just remind everyone of a bit of arithmetic that the antis seem to forget. Even if all the hereditry peers and all the tory peers had not voted at all on the hunting bill, there was still enough opposition from crossbenchers, Liberal and Labour peers for it to have been comfortably defeated in the lords.

I didn't know what it would ban - or more to the point allow. And i didn't sign the declaration either.

 

[Hercules]

You have been deliberatly misrepresenting my statements and beliefs. Apart from anything else, this contravenes the forum T+Cs. There will be no more warnings.

Tough Guy!!!

Stop crying and state your opinions more clearly. That way your views will not be misinterpreted. Any more threats or weasel words?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I think by 'no more warnings' he's threatening to stop talking to me.

:sniffle:
:wiping away tears expression:

 

[NK12]

I would enjoy letting hounds rip foxes apart if they didn't feel anything, but we aren't in the middle ages to cause unnecessary suffer, now we can kill humanely, that's why I prefer "normal" hunting instead.
Also Fox Hunting is a waste of land.
Another thing that really bothers me is cubbing, I know they face many dangers in the wild and they will probably die, but that doesn't mean we have to force them to die, what if they survived if we didn't kill them???
In conclusion, it's unnecessary and the land they occupate to fox hunt can be used for better purposes, and even though foxes die in cruel ways in the wild, it doesn't mean we have to do the same when we can kill them wthically.