French attitudes to saddles

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Rollin

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I have a young horse about to do his second endurance, only 40kms and a rider employed to ride him. I have an email to say she will bring her own saddle - she has never seen the horse!!

I have had this with both trainers and other riders in France. I have learned that French riders buy saddles to fit them not their horses. My young horses get fitted with something before we back them then are either re-flocked or we buy a new saddle.

We purchased this farm from a couple who competed in SJ, I could never understand why it was their tack room, now my feed room, was tiny. They had more horses than me. I have had to convert a loose box into a tack room.

I am told that there are a lot of horses in France with back problems, I wonder why.
 
Tell me about it!!! Makes me so mad. I have literally not come across a French person who doesn't use their own saddle on every horse in my seven years out here in a number of difference stables. Drives me insane, especially when it comes to stable jockeys riding my horses in their own saddles :mad::mad::mad:
 
Yes, I was a bit surprised by this.

Spent some time exercising (hacking/schooling) horses on a pro dressage yard. Didn't have my own saddle in France, but was supplied with "one to fit all". This ranged from a 15hh French trotter to a 17hh KWPN.

Agree with the bad backs, especially the Trotter.
 
JGC said:
Tell me about it!!! Makes me so mad. I have literally not come across a French person who doesn't use their own saddle on every horse in my seven years out here in a number of difference stables. Drives me insane, especially when it comes to stable jockeys riding my horses in their own saddles :mad::mad::mad:
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Quietly whimpers, I expected to be riding in the proprietar's saddles, not just changing the saddle cloth depending on who I was riding!
 
I don't think this is necessarily limited to France.

Plenty of yards here have a few saddles to fit all, and some riders will have their own they use on nearly everything unless its wildly out.

I'm not excusing it, but it's worth noting that particular yards and riders often go for similar type horses so perhaps with the right padding its not impossible that these saddles do roughly fit most horses :/
 
mtj said:
Quietly whimpers, I expected to be riding in the proprietar's saddles, not just changing the saddle cloth depending on who I was riding!
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Sorry for the wrath - have come back from holiday to find my horse with a bloodied withers cause some $#$% hadn't used my saddle!

Llanali said:
I don't think this is necessarily limited to France.

Plenty of yards here have a few saddles to fit all, and some riders will have their own they use on nearly everything unless its wildly out.

I'm not excusing it, but it's worth noting that particular yards and riders often go for similar type horses so perhaps with the right padding its not impossible that these saddles do roughly fit most horses :/
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But we're talking everyone, not just pro yards. In riding schools, people buy their own saddles and then use them on every horse they ride. One-horse owners keep the same saddle, even once they've sold the horse, and just plonk it on the next one!
 
I am going to have to be tactfull. He is in a 3,000 euro Barnsby jumping saddle which has been slightly re-flocked for him by a master saddler. The only reason he doesn't have an endurance saddle is I have not found a seller who will be able to fit him correctly yet.

He is probably going to the UK in September when we will get him a second saddle. I have four Shagya Arabs all need different saddles.

I have four CB mares backed and again each has a different saddle, one a Caprilli, one a wide Stirling Saddlery saddle and one a medium Ideal.

Both my breeds breed to true to type but not their backs.
 
When I was last in Germany the saddles (not at every level I suspect) were bought in the guestimated width fitting off the rail in the tack shop & taken home.
I expressed suprise that the saddler didn't come & fit saddle to horse and it was an alien concept.
 
siennamum said:
When I was last in Germany the saddles (not at every level I suspect) were bought in the guestimated width fitting off the rail in the tack shop & taken home.
I expressed suprise that the saddler didn't come & fit saddle to horse and it was an alien concept.
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The same here. A friend was asked to hack out with a teenager who had been given free two TB's who would not hack out. They napped and reared and friend told the parents the horses needed to be seen by a saddler and a chiropracter.

They would not pay for the latter as they were 'given' the horses and did not want to buy saddles that would fit. My own saddler saw them and as you say, bought from the local tack shop off the peg. So they keep two unridable horses.
 
Erm, how to say this tactfully: not everywhere has the same shall we say overcomplicated attitude to saddles and their fit as in the UK. Whilst I completely agree that the saddle should fit, there is a lot more leeway for the average horse (not talking about strangely formed or overly sensitive types) than you lot think.
 
Having a saddle that fits every horse is different to having a saddle that's been bought for every horse.
I keep all saddles I like I must have around fifteen or so perhaps more .
I never buy a horse and have to buy a saddle I can always something to refit to get us started off.
that's what happens on most pro yards saddles are shared, pads changed to suit each horse .
However the idea that some would turn up to do a endurance ride having never tried the saddle on the horse and expect to use their own saddle is weird.
If you choose saddles with panels that allow adjustments or perhaps with adjustable heads as well, my two newest dressage saddles allow for different heads they are lovely , and expensive saddles and hopefully this will give maximum flexibility it the future .
I have five jumping saddles the same all with different widths and panel combinations some have belonged to half a dozen horses and have been stripped and refitted many times .
While some horses are a nightmare to fit and get comfy ( I have one at the moment) most if you follow the simple rules of balance and fit and be accommodated quite easily.
 
Cortez said:
Erm, how to say this tactfully: not everywhere has the same shall we say overcomplicated attitude to saddles and their fit as in the UK. Whilst I completely agree that the saddle should fit, there is a lot more leeway for the average horse (not talking about strangely formed or overly sensitive types) than you lot think.
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Just because horses are tolerant animals it doesn't mean we should take advantage of them! How would you like it if you turned up for a job and were asked to wear the 'job pair of shoes' regardless of your shoe size?

I couldn't understand why I couldn't find a saddle fitter in my area until a British ex-pat who now works over here explained the French attitude to saddle fitting, i.e. plonk it on, if need be stick a pad underneath, and you're good to go.
 
William Fox Pitt doesn't have a saddle for every horse in the barn. And if you sent him one with a saddle that didn't suit him I feel pretty certain he would not ride in it.
 
Goldenstar said:
Having a saddle that fits every horse is different to having a saddle that's been bought for every horse.
I keep all saddles I like I must have around fifteen or so perhaps more .
I never buy a horse and have to buy a saddle I can always something to refit to get us started off.
that's what happens on most pro yards saddles are shared, pads changed to suit each horse .
However the idea that some would turn up to do a endurance ride having never tried the saddle on the horse and expect to use their own saddle is weird.
If you choose saddles with panels that allow adjustments or perhaps with adjustable heads as well, my two newest dressage saddles allow for different heads they are lovely , and expensive saddles and hopefully this will give maximum flexibility it the future .
I have five jumping saddles the same all with different widths and panel combinations some have belonged to half a dozen horses and have been stripped and refitted many times .
While some horses are a nightmare to fit and get comfy ( I have one at the moment) most if you follow the simple rules of balance and fit and be accommodated quite easily.
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This is more or less what I was trying to say ^^^ When I was riding professionally we had around eight saddles and when something new came in it was pretty easy to find one that fitted, or did so with minor adjustment. Occasionally you do get a weirdly shaped one, but they are rare. All this stuffing and re-flocking when the horse has got a bit porky/fitter or whatever seems overly fussy; horses aren't THAT sensitive, and it's not like most of us are going round Badminton or worrying about our piaffe.
 
Same here in Italy, it's rare that the saddler will come and fit. Riders often have saddles that they use on everything that they ride.
 
Well I have ten saddles and only one fits this horse. His saddle would be far too narrow for his full sister or his dam.
 
This might sound dreadful but not all saddle fitters in the uk can fit saddles properly.
They are more interested in selling you a saddle
We had a saddle fitter come out to our mare she tried several saddles none fitted and she was running out of saddles on the van. The last saddle she tried she believed to be a good fit. That saddle would have fitted my dog better than our mare
 
TarrSteps said:
William Fox Pitt doesn't have a saddle for every horse in the barn. And if you sent him one with a saddle that didn't suit him I feel pretty certain he would not ride in it.
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You are not suggesting that his comfort would be more important than that of his horse surely? I like a saddle that is comfortable and I don't always buy a new saddle but never back a young horse without taking advice from a saddler first.

I would not expect any horse to compete for 3 hours plus in a saddle which is designed for the rider's comfort.

I have two four year old CB mares, one in a wide Stirling saddlery saddle but that is now 'uphill' and I think she needs an extra wide. The other who is less advanced is in a medium Ideal but once she is doing more work she will be fitted again.
 
I have a Polish friend who makes her living breaking in and schooling youngsters, occasionally 'sorting out' the problems with an older project horse. She absolutely insists on using her medium fit Stubben jumping saddle on each and every horse/pony regardless. I have seen it perched precariously onto very broad cobs and used with a good layer of very puffy saddle cloths on skinny TBs.Not something I would want for one of my horses frankly.

To a certain extent I agree with Cortez, all this faffing about with saddles and saddle adjustments has really become unnecessarily OTT in recent years. But on the other hand, there is a limit to just how many varying horse shapes and sizes that one saddle can accommodate without at least causing temporary discomfort for the horse, and at worse causing serious long term back problems.
 
harveysmom said:
This might sound dreadful but not all saddle fitters in the uk can fit saddles properly.
They are more interested in selling you a saddle
We had a saddle fitter come out to our mare she tried several saddles none fitted and she was running out of saddles on the van. The last saddle she tried she believed to be a good fit. That saddle would have fitted my dog better than our mare
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So how did you solve this problem?
 
Currently can't ride my mare as she has outgrown her saddle. I like the balance saddles and she needs a X9 !!!!!!!! Can't afford a new one wouldn't dream of riding her in a saddle that does not fit have even tried a changable gullet with pink insert simply does not fit Ho hum bareback it is then!!!!!
 
I have x2 horses who can share the same saddles as they are both x wide & suit the same model.
I suspect that WFP has a selection of horses of a similar type with few X wide or X narrow types.
I think it's probably easier to be riding horses in less than perfectly fitting kit also when you are super balanced, athletic and not overweight.
 
siennamum said:
I have x2 horses who can share the same saddles as they are both x wide & suit the same model.
I suspect that WFP has a selection of horses of a similar type with few X wide or X narrow types.
I think it's probably easier to be riding horses in less than perfectly fitting kit also when you are super balanced, athletic and not overweight.
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Hmm, not sure about the super balanced and athletic, but I was under 9 1/2 stone.
 
WFP would be an extreme example as I'd guess his leg length means a lot of saddles really don't fit him... so he'd need something designed for long legs!
 
We'll not mention the fact that there is a lot of money to be made in "fitting" saddles.......just search on here to see how many "custom fit" saddles cause serious problems and don't in fact come near to fitting the horses they are supposedly made for. There are 3 standard tree widths in commercial saddles: narrow. medium. wide. The vast majority of saddles use mass produced trees in precisely these widths, everything else is down to the flocking. I actually have a genuinely weird shaped horse, and had a saddle made for her in Portugal (for very little money), because none of the commercially available trees came anywhere near fitting her.
 
just to clarify the point re saddles in Germany made earlier in the thread ... where I am it is normal to get a saddler out to fit .. have not yet come across anyone who thinks that is not normal....
 
Out of curiosity, Jo, do the pro riders you know have a saddle for every horse? What about travelling pros and people who start horses? Does somewhere like.Schokemole's have a saddle for every horse?
 
I'm not sure it is a nationality 'thing' either.

I've worked with a few pros and also had horses with a few and most of the time the rider has 2 or possibly 3 saddles they compete in and these will be used all horses in the yard (generally 15-20).

Smaller yards I have worked at tend to have a higher saddle to horse ratio oddly; the bigger (and more successful) yards I worked at, had less saddles to horses.

I do think we overcomplicate saddles a lot in this country; says I how tried about 12 different saddles before finding one for Vinnie.
When he was away at an extremely successful yard this spring, he was ridden in the rider's 'normal' saddle and mine was left in the tackroom as it didn't fit the rider- it certainly did not seem to affect his performance!
 
Maybe in some cases we do fuss too much about saddle fit but in general I don't think that's a bad thing, badly fitting saddles can cause many issues and I personally would rather avoid pain and tightness caused by a saddle that doesn't fit properly.

Finding a good saddle fitter.... Well that's a different thing entirely! I think it's important that we as owners have some knowledge ourselves so we can spot when something's wrong even if we don't know exactly what
 
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