French attitudes to saddles

I agree people can be overly fussy about it but it seems pretty silly that someone would turn up with a saddle without even seeing the horse. I imagine most of the horses pros ride would be warmbloods, TBs etc, whose widths at least might not be that different in general, so if a yard has loads of them and a saddle in narrow, medium and wide, then probably ok.... Although I hope they would have something suitable for high withers.

Some Arabs are really wide so someone turning up with a medium would be a no go! I think a size too wide is perfectly doable with a bit of padding but once you get more than one size too tight it would be pretty uncomfortable for the horse.
 
Seems to be 2 different conversations going on here. The scenario that OP mentions which is someone turning up to ride a strange horse and insisting on bringing their own saddle that fits them but has never been tested on the horse is a bit bizzare, especially when your talking getting on and doing an endurance ride, surely this has the potential for all sorts of issues.

However, the idea of a pro yard not having a specifically fitted saddle for each horse is different; I would think most pro yards will have a selection of saddles combined with a selection of numnahs, pads and risers etc. and will probably (unless the horse has wacky conformation) be able to get something to fit reasonably well in nearly every case.
 
Good point Walrus. :) I do take exception to the idea though that every country or group that doesn't specifically fit saddles to horses and never saddles to riders is ruining every horse.

I do think people have a fairly narrow set of types they ride, usually down to the discipline/breed they compete, and that will affect the types and sizes of saddles they have. When I rode Arabs, yes, they had their own saddles - a few for the whole yard - as the breed standard was so specific. Ditto AQHAs. Many of the big saddle makers in the US make saddles specifically for these breeds. When I worked with sport horses I either rode in the "barn" saddles or, gasp, in my own.;) This isn't to say we didn't fiddle around with options, pads etc. The saddles were generally "adult" size - in the 17 range - and suitable for the task. But for anything competing at a higher level the feeling was it would either have something fitted with me in mind or I would use my own.

Remember, with latex panel saddle - which many of the French ones will be - there isn't a lot of small adjusting and the saddle shape tends to be very low profile and "neutral" allowing for the use of various pads.

I had a very interesting conversation one with an old, very well respected saddler. His feeling - what he had been taught - is the good saddles are made to be the shape of a horse going well. They are in effect a template. If they are uncomfortable because they horse is going badly - crooked, upside down etc then, well, they should be uncomfortable! Fitting for a temporary pathology - in other words incorrect muscle development - actually "splints" the pathology and makes it impossible for the rider to acurately gauge what corrections need to be made. I'm not sure I agree completely - and neither he as he did sell and adjust saddles for a living - but food for though.

He also made the point that very good, more advanced riders are also more inclined to need a saddle that fits them very well and less inclined to need a saddle that compensates for their own issues. Plus their horses often get ridden by a number of people (possibly in a number of saddles) and so patters are not set up the same way. One person with one horse is actually more likely to need a "perfect fit".

The problem is now so many saddles are so tweaked they will never fit another horse or even the same horse at a different time as perfectly, at least without a major overhaul. So you have a brief period of perfect and then a lot of times of not perfect but in a way that can't be addressed by any temporary measures.

Of course horse's backs are like gold and should be protected but frankly I've seen a lot of back trouble in the UK as well and, yes, many more people use highly specialised fitters to do many and myriad adjustments to their saddles regularly. I cannot speak to France but from my own observation it's not a case of pro yards being full of horses with bad backs and single horse owners, being ultra careful about saddles, not having their own problems.
 
Last edited:
I have written to the rider explaining he has a saddle which has been fitted for him and adjusted when he has muscled up (he is only 5 years old). She is about the same height as me and the student who has been riding him. We are all under ten stone. So she should not have a problem.

This event is 40kms so he will be out for over three hours. He must be comfortable. Also we plan to get him ready for 60kms in September so a sore back would put paid to this year's training as the local events all end in September.

I have to say I did not realise until recently that French people use one saddle on many horses. I had an equine studies student come for an interview who told me apologetically that she did not have a saddle. I just opened the tack room door and showed her I had plenty of saddles which surprised her.
 
TarrSteps said:
Remember, with latex panel saddle - which many of the French ones will be - there isn't a lot of small adjusting and the saddle shape tends to be very low profile and "neutral" allowing for the use of various pads.
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. They're also a lot lighter, aren't they, and the latex will not become lumpy and bumpy as some flocked saddles seem to. Certainly when we swapped our hunters - which were all shapes and sizes - into Whitaker saddles we had very few days lost with sore backs and saddle issues.

I'm a Butet girl ;) and have a plethora of pads: Prolite, sheepskin, Equi-Fit, the one that Charlotte Dujardin uses (but has failed to make my dressage better, sadly :p) which I've used according to the horse's needs. I do wonder sometimes when I read the saddle-fitting threads whether mine would go better in a saddle fitted specifically to him, or with one of those super-expensive girths. :confused::rolleyes:
 
I think two different things are being discussed here - pro yards/riders vs. the leisure rider.

My sharer in Belgium blithely announced to me 'j'ai ma selle' which I am sure fitted her old 13.2 pony fine however there was no way on earth she was going to ride my 16h Belgian wb in it! She couldn't understand why :rolleyes:

This was par for the course over there - rider's saddles were their status symbols unfortunately often with no regard for the horse due to rider lack of knowledge.
 
I'll admit it, I had a total saddle epiphany recently on exactly this subject.
(Btw, I've been on Pro yards where there were just a few saddles for 30-40 horses, and they were padded/shimmed up and down. But of course most of the horses were to a type, you would not have had a super-wide or a super narrow horse, or one with a back like a banana there...)
I have always thought that the balance between horse and rider being comfortable with a saddle should always, if it must, swing strongly in favour of the horse being as comfy as possible, and the rider coping...
This was until I ended up with 2 saddles in a row that I could not do 2-point position in at all... I think because the stirrup bars are in totally the wrong place. I was skewing in midair too, very odd.
Lots of angst and deliberation etc later I tried a Butet. I've only sat in 1 once before (thank you Baydale!) and didn't really notice it at all then, was so busy concentrating on the horse... but that in itself tells a huge tale, it was totally neutral, did not get in my way at all (even though it was Baydale's saddle and my legs are just a bit longer and I'm quite a bit bigger all round!)
I tried a few 2nd hand Butets (Anki from Sederholm Selected was absolutely brilliant), and the second one I tried was just perfect, it feels like a slightly squishy glove fitted exactly to my legs and seat. OMG the difference it made. And because I was suddenly able to be in much better balance, and able to use my legs and seat better, of course the horse went much better... ;) ;)
So, now I'm hooked, and I finally understand. Previously I've always had 2 saddles per horse... and been ultra-picky about fit for the horse, not me. This hasn't necessarily helped, in retrospect. (I went round Weston Park 2* in a saddle someone who saw the video described me as "swimming in"...oops.) I have had a few saddles fitted very badly by "Master Saddlers". You do have to be very careful who you go to... it's all so subjective.
 
JCWHITE said:
I am pleased to hear you have found a rider!
Let us know how your lovely horse gets on please!
JC
Click to expand...

Thank you JC. Because of the appalling weather he was not as well prepared as I wanted for the April event. As you know he got the top marks of the day.

Now I am riding him every day and he is much fitter. He is off to handsome Eric this weekend for a bit of intensive work in the forest.

Send me some winning vibes!!!

By the way the rider has offered to compete for free in return for covering for her mare, this on the basis of his sire -when she found out who the dam sire she nearly bit my arm off.
 
Kerilli,

I am not averse to adapting saddles for backing and hacking. I have a Caprilli with all the width fittings and gel pads, risers, sheepskins etc. I am happy to do some gentle hacking with these. I always take advise before starting a young horse.

For competition I think fit is very important.

My 'epiphany' moment came after reading Mary Wanless 'For the Good of the Horse' particularly her chapter of saddles and saddle fitting.
 
I only use my saddle to ride in but it is treeless with suberpanel feonix I use. Doesnt move and everyhorse goes well in it, I rather horse's comfort first than mine. I would not forgive myself for being the reason to give a horse long term back problems or even a few mins of pain. Just not worth it in my opinion tbh so always horse's first with me.
 
To clarify, no one is saying rider COMFORT over the good of the horse. They are saying the rider's ability to ride WELL has a big impact on the horse's ability to go correctly and stay sound. A saddle that, say, puts your leg way out in front of you, is going to cause imbalances that impact on the horse's back.

I always think there is something a bit passive aggressive or at least Puritan about insisting on riding in saddles that don't work for the rider. This is not what the OP suggested at all, of course, but it does seem to come up a lot in these discussions.

Anyway, it sounds like you have a good solution OP and an invested rider, which is very important. Good luck with your boy! :)
 
I forgot my new seat saver on my saddle when my instructor came to school F yesterday and she couldn't believe how great it was. She had never seen a seat saver before in her life but was very impressed with the idea. We are trying to figure out if they are allowed in French competitions!

I am glad it is sorted OP, much better for your horse. Good luck with his competition.
 
Booboos said:
I forgot my new seat saver on my saddle when my instructor came to school F yesterday and she couldn't believe how great it was. She had never seen a seat saver before in her life but was very impressed with the idea. We are trying to figure out if they are allowed in French competitions!

I am glad it is sorted OP, much better for your horse. Good luck with his competition.
Click to expand...

Ooh, let me know if find out. I was thinking of an Acavallo one with my 6-year-old to make me feel a bit more secure, but am worried about using it at home and getting used to it and as a result feeling even less secure at comps!
 
siennamum said:
When I was last in Germany the saddles (not at every level I suspect) were bought in the guestimated width fitting off the rail in the tack shop & taken home.
I expressed suprise that the saddler didn't come & fit saddle to horse and it was an alien concept.
Click to expand...

My saddler confirmed this. They just don't / didn't have saddle fitters hence I am told the foam panels developing on the continent as they don't really change shape / alter like a flocked saddle does.

The general trend is to buy the right fit, narrow/med/wide and then use saddle pads to correct / adjust locally as required.

Actually not that different to what happens here on many pro yards.....?
 
TarrSteps - sorry for the late reply .. the pro on our yard (SJ) has 2 saddles which he uses when they fit on the horses he rides, but , for example he is riding mine at the moment as I am off games .. in Feb he was using his , but 2 months ago swopped back to mine as he is 5 and changing shape and mine is fitting better than his, so he will not ride in his just for comforts sake mine is an Equipe, so he is not suffering :-) From the dressage pros I have seen around, they have a small selection and seem to use the practical approach, as I think someone mentioned earlier, that one of the handful of saddles on the yard will fit each horse, perhaps with a pad added here or there.
 
GermanyJo said:
TarrSteps - sorry for the late reply .. the pro on our yard (SJ) has 2 saddles which he uses when they fit on the horses he rides, but , for example he is riding mine at the moment as I am off games .. in Feb he was using his , but 2 months ago swopped back to mine as he is 5 and changing shape and mine is fitting better than his, so he will not ride in his just for comforts sake mine is an Equipe, so he is not suffering :-) From the dressage pros I have seen around, they have a small selection and seem to use the practical approach, as I think someone mentioned earlier, that one of the handful of saddles on the yard will fit each horse, perhaps with a pad added here or there.
Click to expand...

Pretty much identical to my observation and experience in North America and on pro yards here.

It is a huge advantage to have regular access to a variety of saddles, of course. I usually had 4 or 5 of my own in a variety of styles, including a wide saddle that usually fit well for breaking - but then often owners had a couple I had access too and I could beg or borrow a few more. Under those circumstances you're quite likely to find something that does the job. Plus we did have saddles reflocked and even adjusted as needed. But I was a bit amazed when I moved here and saw the amount of work that was done to saddles constantly and the rate at which people went through saddles!
 
When I was in france I watched a big national show jumping ... The 4 top riders of the season had to all swap horses and ride a 1m40 class on each other's horses. 4 top quality horses ranging from a 15.3hh spring to a 17.2 high withered galumper ... The riders all took their own saddle with them on every horse swap ... That pretty much sums up my experience there. I had a saddle, I put in on all my horses. When a friend when on holiday I put it on her horse too lol.
 
I think it depends on the saddle and the horse. English style saddles are more likely to only fit the horse it's used for as they are far less adjustable, whereas some endurance saddles are VERY adjustable and will be able to fit multiple horses if they are adjusted/shimmed to suit. When I rode Orrie I used to take my own saddle, as I really didn't get on with his own one. I did make sure my saddle fitted him though, and I wouldn't have used it if it hadn't (or if his owner hadn't been happy).
 
The obsession with getting a saddle fitter out if a horse so much looks at something on a hack (it HAS to be his back...) I think is very much a UK thing. I actually got quite a shock when I joined HHO first and saw the amount it was recomended.

We dont really do saddle fitters here in Ireland either and when I worked in Oz with polo ponies I had a saddle and it went on every single one of those ponies, of which there was about 15.


I see no problem swapping between saddles as long as the horses are relatively similar in size and build and the person doing the swapping can actually tell wether it fits or not
 
Horseman, not sure if your saddler lives in Germany , but I would definitely not confirm that saddles do not get fitted here, have lived here for 9 years
 
JGC said:
Ooh, let me know if find out. I was thinking of an Acavallo one with my 6-year-old to make me feel a bit more secure, but am worried about using it at home and getting used to it and as a result feeling even less secure at comps!
Click to expand...

Mine's an Acavallo! I saw it mentioned on here and took a punt on it but it actually seems to help with my horrific sitting trot! Someone has kindly PMed me and will ask her boss about it so will let you know!
 
When I worked at a Show jumping dealing yard I had to bring my own saddle to work. Most of the horses were dutch warmbloods, and luckily my close contact pessoa saddle actually did fit most of them ok. Every member of staff had their own saddle. Same with racing, however most racing saddles are half tree and fit differently.
 
TarrSteps said:
William Fox Pitt doesn't have a saddle for every horse in the barn. And if you sent him one with a saddle that didn't suit him I feel pretty certain he would not ride in it.
Click to expand...

I can back this up! When I worked for him, there were a selection of saddles, none of which belonged to a particular horse. We used to fight over who got the comfy ones, and try desperately to avoid the BC/FB (short for Ball Crusher/Fanny Basher). Saddles weren't professionally fitted to every horse, and we used thick grey felt pads under them. Any visiting horses generally wore one of the 'bank' saddles, rather than its own.

William VERY rarely rode in the BC! Pulled rank every time, opting for the more comfortable LB (Large Black) or SB (Small Black)
 
I think this is maybe more of a European attitude than just French. I know when you purchase a saddle from CWD, Devoucoux, Antares and Amerigo the saddle is designed to fit you first and foremost. I noticed that most European riders do generally have nicer more expensive saddles than us but I think that is because they are only purchasing one or two saddles so why not spend £3,500 on each of them instead of three or four saddles that are less expensive but fit each horse correctly. I don't agree with this attitude as I always do think you get better results out of a horse that is comfy and has everything fitting correctly rather than one who is uncomfy. Maybe just my opinion but I'm just throwing it out their :)
 
Equestrian Fashion said:
I think this is maybe more of a European attitude than just French. I know when you purchase a saddle from CWD, Devoucoux, Antares and Amerigo the saddle is designed to fit you first and foremost. I noticed that most European riders do generally have nicer more expensive saddles than us but I think that is because they are only purchasing one or two saddles so why not spend £3,500 on each of them instead of three or four saddles that are less expensive but fit each horse correctly. I don't agree with this attitude as I always do think you get better results out of a horse that is comfy and has everything fitting correctly rather than one who is uncomfy. Maybe just my opinion but I'm just throwing it out their :)
Click to expand...
Can't say that the Europeans are doing too badly 'tho, can you?
 
I think it's very hard to judge, isn't it? It's really only the middle market in the UK that seems to have a different attitude towards saddle fitting - professional yards here seem to share a more international approach. It would be interesting to see a study but I can't see how you would even set the parameters.
 
Love to see someone 'just chuck a saddle on my horse' his old owner did it and that's why she and I quote 'couldn't school him' and 'careful he rears'

Physio and a well fitted saddle later he schools very well and hasn't reared in a year. One saddle doesn't fit all but it doesn't mean one saddle can't fit multiple horses. CC can fit similar horses as they mould to the horses shape rather than being flocked. same as flair saddles.
 
I think some people have got hung up on the sales pitch of the "saddle fitters" who have convinced folk that the horse has to have a different saddle for every "change". I think of it like a pair of shoes; if the shoe fits, it fits when feet are a little swollen or tired, perhaps not perfectly, but it fits. In my experience the vast majority of horses can be fitted in a standard N/M/W tree, and it's really not that hard to use common sense and a little research on how a saddle is supposed to fit to see the basics for yourself. Of course there are many people who may not feel competent to do this, so a saddle fitter comes in to the picture. Perhaps there are more people who are not experienced these days?
 
In case anyone is interested seat savers are legal in French dressage competitions. I have to eat my words because the FEF replied within a few hours to my e-mail, so good on them!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top