From BF to shod with studs

[Reacher]

A boring question sorry and maybe I’m over thinking it.

My horse has been barefoot a few years and has competed on grass and is fine if the ground is dry. However he does not grip on wet greasy (hard) ground and loses confidence (understandably). This means we have to withdraw if ground is wet.
Living ooop north there is a 50:50 chance of rain on any day! (Or do I mean 90:10?!)
He has quite good feet with concavity.

I am considering putting on shoes / studs for a couple of months to enjoy the competition season (low level eventing - 80 - 90 cm). Horse is in late teens (though fit and sound) but who know how many season we have left at his age so having to withdraw due to the weather is frustrating especially as we only get a handful out outings in a season.

My concern is about the effects of studs on his ligaments - as he is used to having proprioception / controlled slipping when decelerating .

He is a whizzy little horse who tends to whiz off XC but then put on the brakes for a couple of strides when he is assessing what is in front of him - it’s the effect of this deceleration and the extra forces in his legs due to the studs that worries me. Especially as when shod he will lose the propioception.

(Yes I know the whizzing off etc is a training issue - believe me I’ve been working on this with regular lessons for the 5 1/2 years that I’ve owned him! My riding instructions at present are to let him go at his pace as he is much more amenable than if I try and make him go slower.)

Would we be ok as only intend to use the smallest of studs? Is the current thinking 1 or 2 ? Various instructors tell me 2 on each feet but a farrier sent me a paper (which I now can’t find) which showed 2 studs causes more “juddering“.

Or do I stay barefoot and just hope that the events we miss we will get back at the end?

 

[Patterdale]

Why not try shoes without studs first? I don’t use studs for the reasons you’ve listed, shoes alone might give a bit more purchase though?

 

[TheMule]

I think you're overthinking it!
Mine are unshod until just before the event season then they're shod and have studs in for anything on grass. They cope just fine. I always use small pointy studs unless either ground is really soft, 1 on the outside of each shoe. Much more risk of damage to soft tissue structures if the horse is slipping.
I will not run xc without shoes/ studs again since I had a very surefooted horse slip and cause me quite a significant brain injury.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Shoes without studs would be the worst option for me. Barefoot is gripper I think, than shod but unstudded.
I ran both Amber and Dolly studded all season then took shoes off till March again. Both had had been unshod till they started eventing (in fact both did a season barefoot first) then went from never shod to shod and studded with no issue.

 

[Reacher]

Why not try shoes without studs first? I don’t use studs for the reasons you’ve listed, shoes alone might give a bit more purchase though?

Thanks - it’s a good question - on hard but greasy ground would shoes give more grip? Many years ago As a teenager I never had studs and never had any problems slipping

I think you're overthinking it!
Mine are unshod until just before the event season then they're shod and have studs in for anything on grass. They cope just fine. I always use small pointy studs unless either ground is really soft, 1 on the outside of each shoe. Much more risk of damage to soft tissue structures if the horse is slipping.
I will not run xc without shoes/ studs again since I had a very surefooted horse slip and cause me quite a significant brain injury.

Thankyou - Yes I do over think things! Very sorry about your injury and obviously I don’t want to cause either the horse or I an injury.

Yes what you say about 2 studs agrees with the journal paper I mentioned, though RI (who is keen for me to shoe and stud) is adamant I should use 2 per hoof..

 

[Reacher]

Thankyou - that’s reassuring.

Shoes without studs would be the worst option for me. Barefoot is gripper I think, than shod but unstudded.
I ran both Amber and Dolly studded all season then took shoes off till March again. Both had had been unshod till they started eventing (in fact both did a season barefoot first) then went from never shod to shod and studded with no issue.

How long do you give them to “acclimatise” to the studs before an event?

 

[Patterdale]

I used to stud until I forgot them one day at an event (BE100) and felt no difference. I have never studded since and I’ve never felt the need to! For me, the injury risk of studs is too high but that’s just my personal opinion.

I do 95% of my training on grass though which I think helps.

 

[RachelFerd]

I put little tiny studs in behind - 1 on outside of each foot - for pretty much all competition on grass. If any risk of slipping I add in front too. For me the injury risks of using studs are much smaller than the injury risk of having a significant slip and fall. So I stud, and won't compete over XC or SJ on grass without the option of putting them in.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Thankyou - that’s reassuring.



How long do you give them to “acclimatise” to the studs before an event?

I put shoes on for 2-3 weeks then just studded for comps. I've never worn studs away from competition. I use one small stud in outside of each hind. I'd add 1 in each front too if necessary but rarely do. You need a stud girth if you are going to stud in front.

 

[Reacher]

I put little tiny studs in behind - 1 on outside of each foot - for pretty much all competition on grass. If any risk of slipping I add in front too. For me the injury risks of using studs are much smaller than the injury risk of having a significant slip and fall. So I stud, and won't compete over XC or SJ on grass without the option of putting them in.

Thankyou - Yes that’s a good point that it is a balance of risks. My main worry about slipping is if we slid into a solid fence.

Actually I hadn’t though of only studding behind, that’s a good point.

 

[TheMule]

Thankyou - that’s reassuring.



How long do you give them to “acclimatise” to the studs before an event?

I once had shoes put on at the first event of the season by the event farrier ?
Not my first choice, but my own farrier let me down the week before. Horse was fine!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Personally I wouldn't go from Barefoot through to shoes-and-studs. Yes I'm a bit of a Born-Again-Barefooter, and whilst I hear what you're saying about your logic for thinking about this, I would be concerned about injury.

 

[Reacher]

Personally I wouldn't go from Barefoot through to shoes-and-studs. Yes I'm a bit of a Born-Again-Barefooter, and whilst I hear what you're saying about your logic for thinking about this, I would be concerned about injury.

Yes I’m a bit of a born again barefooter too which is why I’m tying myself in knots! ?

ETA @MiJodsR2BlinkinTite - Do you mean you would be more concerned about the risk since he is used to being BF?

 

[stangs]

Have you tried him in boots?

 

[IrishMilo]

I'm pro-barefoot but would have zero concerns with your plan! The only thing I'd do is boot up all round if you don't usually.

 

[Reacher]

Have you tried him in boots?

Can’t use hoof boots for sj / xc

 

[Reacher]

I'm pro-barefoot but would have zero concerns with your plan! The only thing I'd do is boot up all round if you don't usually.

Good point, need over reach boots.

 

[LEC]

If you read the GP barefoot sjers from Sweden - they all admit they shoe for grass so they can put studs in and then will remove the shoes again when back on a surface. If it’s good enough for the most valuable sjers in the world….

 

[GoldenWillow]

One of the main reasons my mare was shod through the outdoor competition season was so that I could stud. She would have time out of shoes each year. I was probably very lucky but she went seamlessly from one to another and back again. I did try not shoeing and studding one year but found she started to lose confidence after a slip and fall and tbh so did I.

Hard wet ground was the reason I studded (hard ground with morning dew on was enough to cause a nasty fall unstudded), deep ground I never bothered to (I think I live in same area as you so it's always some degree of wet!) I would chose barefoot rather than shoes without studs on that ground. I only ever used the smallest pointy studs, one in outside of each hoof and didn't use a stud girth, despite being a mare who really tucked her front feet in she never needed one. Despite hating the whole process of putting studs in I felt it was well worth it.

 

[Reacher]

One of the main reasons my mare was shod through the outdoor competition season was so that I could stud. She would have time out of shoes each year. I was probably very lucky but she went seamlessly from one to another and back again. I did try not shoeing and studding one year but found she started to lose confidence after a slip and fall and tbh so did I.

Hard wet ground was the reason I studded (hard ground with morning dew on was enough to cause a nasty fall unstudded), deep ground I never bothered to (I think I live in same area as you so it's always some degree of wet!) I would chose barefoot rather than shoes without studs on that ground. I only ever used the smallest pointy studs, one in outside of each hoof and didn't use a stud girth, despite being a mare who really tucked her front feet in she never needed one. Despite hating the whole process of putting studs in I felt it was well worth it.

Thankyou, that’s reassuring to know.
Yes I think we live in the same area, I was kind of banking on May being dry and not having to make the decision for a month but May has been wet (but the ground is rock hard).

I’m a bit annoyed I sold my expensive SupaStuds kit now ?

 

[Reacher]

Yup i’d seen their website.

If you read the GP barefoot sjers from Sweden - they all admit they shoe for grass so they can put studs in and then will remove the shoes again when back on a surface. If it’s good enough for the most valuable sjers in the world….

Yup i’d seen that. Actually it would be great if i could remove the shoes myself after a competition ...i wonder how difficult it is to remove a shoe. (I rasp the feet myself in between trims)

 

[milliepops]

Yup i’d seen their website.


Yup i’d seen that. Actually it would be great if i could remove the shoes myself after a competition ...i wonder how difficult it is to remove a shoe. (I rasp the feet myself in between trims)

there's a knack esp if they are still nailed on tightly and you need some tools...ask your farrier to show you

 

[Reacher]

there's a knack esp if they are still nailed on tightly and you need some tools...ask your farrier to show you

Probably need some biceps as well! ?

 

[GoldenWillow]

Thankyou, that’s reassuring to know.
Yes I think we live in the same area, I was kind of banking on May being dry and not having to make the decision for a month but May has been wet (but the ground is rock hard).

I’m a bit annoyed I sold my expensive SupaStuds kit now ?

The rain's getting into the ground with us now, but I can't wish for any more rain to help you ? Big coat has been back out!

Typical about your SupaStuds kit, I only ever used the one type of studs and found it cheaper to buy only those rather than a set.