From hairy cob to sport horse and a colored showing question.

What is driving me round the twist is that people have decided to go down the path of discussing this bit (fair enough) but in a manner that appears to be very much "we think she's wrong and we're going to pick holes in it until we're proved right" rather than genuine questioning. This is being done about something that is totally irrelevant to the original thread and to a poster who put up a picture of a correctly turned out, well presented horse who happens to be a similar type to the OP's as a demonstration of what the plaited version looks like. Even better, that horse was shown hairy previously, so more useful to help the OP visualise the transition.

Meanwhile, other people are posting suggestions and statements that are downright incorrect in terms of showing - colour of tack, suggestions of coloured browbands, incorrect show types, incorrect statements about bridlework and slipheads - but no one bothers to mention these when, in the grand scheme of things, the OP is going to go much further wrong in showing terms following this "advice" than turning out their horse the same way Riverdalec does!

And the reason I don't post often is that it raises my blood pressure far too much due to situations like this!
 
It has been said though that lots of pros use it in the show ring, you would think, if that was the case, then Lynn would at least have heard of it?
 
nobody else has raised blood pressures though, we are just discussing the bit. It's one of those round and round conversations because none of us have seen or heard of it before enough to come to a conclusion, but we are just discussing options of how we think the bit may work or best be fitted.
I agree with you though we have totally hijacked the OP, we should move the convo to elsewhere really....sorry OP.
 
Vizslak said:
I agree with you though we have totally hijacked the OP, we should move the convo to elsewhere really....sorry OP.
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:o My post has soooo many replies not to do with my question :o
I have however sifted through to some of the replies from my first post, thank you :)

I think i will leave the mane and feather for now (we are doing a small local show in july in the inhand) so may ask the judges opinion on what to do.
She has got alot of maturing to do and muscle to build up and weight to loose, so will see how she is looking next year.
 
I'm not sure where it says that lots of pros use it in the ring. I have not used the bit personally and nor have I seen it used by a pro that I can call to mind - it's certainly not something that I have come across in 10 odd years of working/having a horse on pro showing yards - but that's not to say pros don't use it, I don't inspect every single bit in every single horse's mouth at every show I go to!

It was in the interests of the discussion on the bit that I first posted my understanding of how the bit worked, which corresponds with the way Riverdalec has fitted it. What I initially said is logical and addresses the problem that Riverdalec says, which is that her horse does not like poll pressure and this is a showing-acceptable solution that minimises poll pressure.

What I find frustrating is that some people seem to be unable to understand that the way the bit has been used in this instance does exactly what the user wants it to do and the horse goes happily in it. Whether or not you have come across it before or think it should be fitted differently, how can you ask more of a person than to understand the effects of the tack they are using, interpret their horse's reactions in a sensible (and hopefully correct) manner and be receptive to improving their way of going? And that goes for ANY discipline!
 
cob&onion said:
:o My post has soooo many replies not to do with my question :o
I have however sifted through to some of the replies from my first post, thank you :)

I think i will leave the mane and feather for now (we are doing a small local show in july in the inhand) so may ask the judges opinion on what to do.
She has got alot of maturing to do and muscle to build up and weight to loose, so will see how she is looking next year.
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Lot's of luck with the show. :)
And i think you are right, the best person to ask for advice would be a show judge.
Don't forget to have fun!!
 
alphanumeric said:
I'm not sure where it says that lots of pros use it in the ring. I have not used the bit personally and nor have I seen it used by a pro that I can call to mind - it's certainly not something that I have come across in 10 odd years of working/having a horse on pro showing yards - but that's not to say pros don't use it, I don't inspect every single bit in every single horse's mouth at every show I go to!

It was in the interests of the discussion on the bit that I first posted my understanding of how the bit worked, which corresponds with the way Riverdalec has fitted it. What I initially said is logical and addresses the problem that Riverdalec says, which is that her horse does not like poll pressure and this is a showing-acceptable solution that minimises poll pressure.

What I find frustrating is that some people seem to be unable to understand that the way the bit has been used in this instance does exactly what the user wants it to do and the horse goes happily in it. Whether or not you have come across it before or think it should be fitted differently, how can you ask more of a person than to understand the effects of the tack they are using, interpret their horse's reactions in a sensible (and hopefully correct) manner and be receptive to improving their way of going? And that goes for ANY discipline!
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I understand why the person has this bit fitted as she does, i get it, even if i agree with another poster who said if used harshly (without meening to) it would be very painfull.

What i would like to know (repeating myself) is.............
Was this bit made and designed to be worn this way, or.....
Has this person adapted the way it has been worn, for herself.

Simple question, not having a go at anyone, just interested.
 
Interestingly, at least 3 judges have commented on here both about the OP's original question and also about the bit issue. Most people don't say "I am a judge and this is what I think ..."

I would listen to what alphanumeric is saying - it truly makes a lot of sense ...
 
Vizslak said:
What because people are curious about something, related to horses that they would like to find out more about??? Isn't that the point of posting on the forum?
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Absolutely.

This thread has just gone the way of any prolonged conversation, off at a tangent, then lurching back to the original point and then pinging off in another direction, normal healthy proceedings as far as I am concerned. Look at any thread that goes on for more than 10-20 posts, few of them stick religeously with the original subject.

I asked a simple, question the other day and that went to, oh, what 500+ posts? Boinging about like a tennis ball at Wimbledon, with a few associated tantrums, no harm done and possibly, someone, somewhere, read something that may have been of use to them, or had an "I didn't know that" moment.
 
Fii said:
Lot's of luck with the show. :)
And i think you are right, the best person to ask for advice would be a show judge.
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Thats a whole new subject!!

It must be so hard on here to know who knows anything and who knows nothing but has an opinion! I think if you were anything like serious you would take the time to go to some county shows and find out how its done properly, that way you get the right answers. I bet many people on here have only done local showing where to be honest anything goes and frankly it rarely goes the way it should!!:cool:
 
Not me, Sky.. Affiliated and County shows me. Gave up after falling ill to Glandular Fever, realising it wasn't actually something you got anything back out of and loaning my horse out.

Oh I'm tempted to try this sidesaddle showing lark... It's not as strict looking as to type (Sadly, mine is a bit of a cut and shut - lovely cob head, neck and shoulders, gorgeous peachy cob butt, but then spindly legs and a stupidly long back. Too short for a hunter, to heavy for a riding horse. How inconsiderate of her to have not read the specs on show horses before being born :( :( ) - and I do love showing off as much as my horse does...

... but by god it's a bitchy pasttime!
 
Serenity087 said:
Not me, Sky.. Affiliated and County shows me. Gave up after falling ill to Glandular Fever, realising it wasn't actually something you got anything back out of and loaning my horse out.

Oh I'm tempted to try this sidesaddle showing lark... It's not as strict looking as to type (Sadly, mine is a bit of a cut and shut - lovely cob head, neck and shoulders, gorgeous peachy cob butt, but then spindly legs and a stupidly long back. Too short for a hunter, to heavy for a riding horse. How inconsiderate of her to have not read the specs on show horses before being born :( :( ) - and I do love showing off as much as my horse does...

... but by god it's a bitchy pasttime!
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Yes because everyone has an opinion! But aint that horses!

Very inconsiderate I'd say!
But at least you can see her faults
 
I really do give up! All I was doing was posting some pics as examples for someone who asked for advise and seemed to get too many critical earfuls back!

Thank you to everyone who has posted comments in my defence. Here is the picture that we took of Lynn Russell's bridle with the old version of the bit so that we could look around and see where to get one from When I contacted Abbey bits they had updated the design which had the same principle:

013.jpg

015.jpg

016.jpg

092-1.jpg

101.jpg

099-1.jpg


These pics were taken on the final day in the judging so surely if something was wrong, SOMEONE would have said something to me, especially as we had a tack inspection!

AND even if I am wearing this bit 'incorrectly' I REALLY DON'T CARE! Ruby loves this bit and people can comment all they like!

As I mentioned way back in this thread, this has completely hijacked someone's post for advice which I think is unfair.
 
Riverdalelc I shouldn't take offence about anything that's been posted about your bit choice. With something unusual & pretty hard to find information about it's understandable that people question things that are different or "appear wrong" on first glance.

I've had enough questions about what type of bit it is that I ride my horse in & the old how does it work / is it severe Qs & that's a cheltenham gag so not that "out there"!

I for one have found it very interesting reading & hopefully the OP didn't mind to much about the hi-jacking. Good luck in your show cob&onion! :)
 
jenki13 said:
Riverdalelc I shouldn't take offence about anything that's been posted about your bit choice. With something unusual & pretty hard to find information about it's understandable that people question things that are different or "appear wrong" on first glance.

I've had enough questions about what type of bit it is that I ride my horse in & the old how does it work / is it severe Qs & that's a cheltenham gag so not that "out there"!

I for one have found it very interesting reading & hopefully the OP didn't mind to much about the hi-jacking. Good luck in your show cob&onion! :)
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But maybe they should check their facts before gobbing off. Just an idea!
 
ohhh a swales pelham. i ride in one too. my horse is not a fan of poll pressure. a neu school swales suits him just fine. there is loads of info on the swales bit. and for the record IT IS FITTED CORRECTLY!
 
meh looks the same, same type of action etc.
016.jpg

8015SP-ns-swales-pelham.jpg

lol i think the lack of info re the bolson? is confusing people. they just want to know what it does and is it fitted correctly. they just want to know!!!lol!
 
Serenity, I know you from old and we haven't spoken for years on here, you'll know from my user name who I am. Our boy was 4th at HOYS last year in the ladies hunter so I do think that I have some substance to my response, a sliphead is absolutely not 'correct' for showing. It's correct if you have a rugby pelham but for any other pelhams I don't think so. A double YES but not a pelham. I find it very frustrating that people who don't know how 2 pieces of leatherwork work have the gall to comment on a bit - and as we all know there are millions of bit options so we surely cannot know about them all?

For the record I do think this bit looks odd, I don't think it needs a sliphead but equally as I know nothing about it (along with 99% of other respondents) I don't feel qualified to comment on how the user is using it.

Back to the original question, I believe that the OP should see how her horse matures but IMO s/he is not either a sports nor a cob type.
 
binkymerlin said:
meh looks the same, same type of action etc.
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err, no! Totally different action and doesn't look the same at all!

The 'belton' bit has the mouthpiece attached to the 'bridoon/snaffle' rein with the 'curb' attachment freely swinging (therefore acts like a snaffle with a freely-rotating curb and no poll pressure)

The swales has the mouthpiece fixed to the curb rein, with the 'bridoon' freely rotating, so it acts like a weymouth, with a harsh action on the curb.

Two VERY different bits! I'd be very worried if you thought they acted in the same way....!!
 
Sky1 said:
But maybe they should check their facts before gobbing off. Just an idea!
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Oh do behave!
Nobody was *gobbing off* as you so delicately put it.
If you had read the whole thread properly you would realise we were trying to check the facts, and frankly getting nowere.
Thankyou riverdale, for the update, but i am still not sure, is the bit made to be worn this way, can you confirm this?
 
Fii said:
Oh do behave!
Nobody was *gobbing off* as you so delicately put it.
If you had read the whole thread properly you would realise we were trying to check the facts, and frankly getting nowere.
Thankyou riverdale, for the update, but i am still not sure, is the bit made to be worn this way, can you confirm this?
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I have read it properly thanks and to me telling someone they are using their kit wrong is gobbing off, what do you call it?

If you had read the thread properly you will have seen many times RC and others saying the bit IS being used correctly. !! For those who are still unsure
ITS NOT A SWALES
IT IS BEING USED CORRECTLY!!! Is that clear enough?
 
I think those two bits - or the one pictured above, and the one pictured earlier but fitted incorrectly - would work in a similar way, applying extremely strong curb pressure without poll pressure. I wouldn't use either of them, however if one were to use one it would be on a particularly strong horse. This discussion escalated because this rider suggested this bit is as mild as a snaffle when it clearly isn't!
 
Flame_ said:
I think those two bits - or the one pictured above, and the one pictured earlier but fitted incorrectly - would work in a similar way, applying extremely strong curb pressure without poll pressure. I wouldn't use either of them, however if one were to use one it would be on a particularly strong horse. This discussion escalated because this rider suggested this bit is as mild as a snaffle when it clearly isn't!
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If you can ride correctly with two reins then the bit acts exactly as a snaffle, the curb only comes into play if you want it to and to the degree that you want it to.
 
Sky1 said:
But maybe they should check their facts before gobbing off. Just an idea!
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Since when is questioning "gobbing off" ? (charmingly put, btw)
There weren't any accusations imho other than along the lines of "is it correctly fitted? if so why is the top ring redundant-looking?" Are those accusations, really?
Anyone could see the horse was going v nicely and happily in the bit, that was already stated by more than 1 of us.

And where exactly are we supposed to "check our facts" on a bit that most of us have never seen or heard of, and which we can only find pictured in 1 other place (in a catalogue, not on a horse!) on the internet?! Some of us come on here to LEARN not to bitch, just in case that escaped some people! ;) ;) ;)

Riverdalelc said:
Please note that this is not a loose ring pelham as such, in effect it is a snaffle (straight bar)
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I think this is what threw a few of us, since it isn't a snaffle IF it has a curb chain fitted and a second rein used. As doriscob1 says though, it is a snaffle until that rein is used.

btw, please can someone tell me, do workers have to wear a double or pelham?
 
Actually, you can use pretty much whatever bitting combination you like for workers - I've seen everything from gags, doubles, snaffles, pelhams and other bits which I have no idea what they are called!

Kerelli - there were some posts on this thread (not yours) which were taking a very accusatory tone pretty much saying that Riverdalec was lying about who suggested it to her, how she was told to use it etc etc. And you know yourself how many "experts" there are on here ....!!!!

I have seen this horse being ridden both by her owner and ride judges in this bitting combination at competitions and she always goes sweetly and obediently. And neither has any instructor or judge suggested that the bit is being used incorrectly (and believe me, they will if there is a problem!)
 
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