From hairy cob to sport horse and a colored showing question.

[Vizslak]

thats all fine FMM, nobody is having a go. I'm just really interested in the bit, personally I dont care whether its fitted correctly or not, the horse looks happy and the poster is clearly happy with it, its entirely up to them how they use it. Its just a very very unusual bit, whats wrong with us wanting to know more about it, its original intended use and how it was designed to be used and fitted?

 

[greenberry]

JESUS! I've just read through this entire thread and I feel almost embarrassed!
For those that have been supportive or shown genuine interest then that's great, but for those who keep posting questions on the bit, speaking to lynn russell then chill, it's a bit for christs sake, it does exactly what the OP wants it to do, it achieves the action required of the rider, the horse likes it, she's been to shows and clinics and nothings been said....what more do you want!

Cob&onion you horse is totally gorgeous and really at unaffiliated level it doesn't matter too much about your turnout in terms of coloured browband, brown/black tack etc. Perhaps you should have a go at a few classes and see which you do best in. Most local shows encourage having a go and like it when you make an effort

And as for 'the bit bandit/ horse abuser' I really feel sorry for you, to me your bit looks fine, it suits you and your horse and does exactly what you want it to, your horse looks beautiful and you certainly did not deserve the lynching you've got! Ignore these idiots and carry on doing what your doing

and to add, if I was told at a LR clinic to try a bit and I liked it and my horse went well in it then I would sure as hell continue to use it despite 80% of HH telling me I was wrong.
AAAANNNDDDD... guys there are far to many people on here doing stupid things with their horses, wearing saddles up the horses neck, using bits far too low in their horses mouth, with too tight browbands, wondering why their horse has become nappy....go and lynch them instead.

 

[Vizslak]

christ nobody is lynching anyone?! The only lynching going on is the people posting about people posting about the bit now

 

[FMM]

christ nobody is lynching anyone?! The only lynching going on is the people posting about people posting about the bit now

There are ways to ask questions, and there were a few members who were (I consider) extremely rude and I hope would never speak to people like that in real life! And I am not wanting to lynch, name names, hit them over the head with a brick - just asking "politely" to consider the way they write something and remember that NO ONE knows everything there is to know about horses ...

 

[Lady La La]

christ nobody is lynching anyone?! The only lynching going on is the people posting about people posting about the bit now

Agreed. People are questioning what they do not know..

How else is anybody supposed to learn? No one has said "Wrong. wrong wrong wrong your bit is wrong, you're a bad owner. Cruel, must be burned at stake... "
Folk have just asked if the bit is fitted correctly and, when the OP didn't reply for a rather long time, speculated amungst themselves as to how the bit worked/should be fitted.

I see no 'lynching' here

 

[greenberry]

There are ways to ask questions, and there were a few members who were (I consider) extremely rude and I hope would never speak to people like that in real life! And I am not wanting to lynch, name names, hit them over the head with a brick - just asking "politely" to consider the way they write something and remember that NO ONE knows everything there is to know about horses ...

Amen, well put FMM

 

[Vizslak]

I dont see anyone that has claimed to know everything about horses though have they? Surely all anyone has said is that they don't know what the bit is etc? If anyone had claimed to know what the bit was and that it was fitted incorrectly etc I could understand the point but none of us do!
I'm very confused that LR doesnt know what a belton is and has never used one but there is a pic of one on her bridles, maybe the bit has a different name too? In which case maybe there would be further info on it under its other name!

 

[Weezy]

I have really enjoyed learning about a new bit TBH. I actually contacted FMM to ask if she knew the bit in question, as a friend on FB had brought up the matter, I had never seen it before and was interested in it's use and fitting. I haven't commented on the thread before now as I had nothing to say, but I do think it has been thoroughly educational...I tend to skip over the posts that are shouty but say nothing

 

[Jesstickle]

There are ways to ask questions, and there were a few members who were (I consider) extremely rude and I hope would never speak to people like that in real life! And I am not wanting to lynch, name names, hit them over the head with a brick - just asking "politely" to consider the way they write something and remember that NO ONE knows everything there is to know about horses ...

Which was the point I was trying to make yesterday. MOST people have been very politely interested but as usual a couple have phrased things in a way which seems rude to me. As usual on this forum. It's a shame that people can't be more considerate about what they write.

I thought I was just going soft but if other people have interpreted the posts the same way I have I can't be going completely batty surely?

 

[only_me]

You don't have to use a double or a pelham to do working hunters!
You can use just about any bit you want, the majority that I have seen jump in a snaffle

As for the bit, I think it is very interesting and have learnt from the thread, and have been looking for a similar bit, and these guys call it by a watson pelham
http://www.bombers.co.za/node/374

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

For those people who are still wanting to"learn" about this bit river dale pointed you in the correct direction to find out at the beginning of this post to go and talk to Abbey bits!!! Not google it etc as it is a unique bit and is aware of the fact. So rather than some of the rude and unhelpful posts that have been made why don't you go and ask the manufacturers about it and then you might get the answers you want!

 

[only_me]

For those people who are still wanting to"learn" about this bit river dale pointed you in the correct direction to find out at the beginning of this post to go and talk to Abbey bits!!! Not google it etc as it is a unique bit and is aware of the fact. So rather than some of the rude and unhelpful posts that have been made why don't you go and ask the manufacturers about it and then you might get the answers you want!

As you may be aware people call bits by different names (eg. 3 ring gag, bubble bit, 3 ring pelham), and by lookng at different styles I came across a bit that looks very similar in action to the belson bit but has a different name...

Oh, and it wasn't through google I went straight to bombers - If I was looking for a particular bit, you can be sure that Bombers has every type of bit and more!!

 

[Vizslak]

For those people who are still wanting to"learn" about this bit river dale pointed you in the correct direction to find out at the beginning of this post to go and talk to Abbey bits!!! Not google it etc as it is a unique bit and is aware of the fact. So rather than some of the rude and unhelpful posts that have been made why don't you go and ask the manufacturers about it and then you might get the answers you want!

I have done, not had any replies yet though, I contacted Abbey, Albion and Dobert.

 

[Vizslak]

thats very similar OM, well done!

 

[kerilli]

For those people who are still wanting to"learn" about this bit river dale pointed you in the correct direction to find out at the beginning of this post to go and talk to Abbey bits!!! Not google it etc as it is a unique bit and is aware of the fact. So rather than some of the rude and unhelpful posts that have been made why don't you go and ask the manufacturers about it and then you might get the answers you want!

trying to track down a bit you don't know the name of is not easy! it's been called a Belton, belson, and watson pelham on here, and a Swales (which imho it is not). so, which is it?

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

As river dale bought it under belt on I would ask abbey asking about that bit. It is not a Swales... But I am sure if you describe it to abbey they will know the bit they made, I would hope. So hopefully when y get hold of them they will be able to help you

 

[kerilli]

ok, Belton it is then.

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

Hope you find the info you need

 

[*hic*]

Looking at the watson pelham it's different again as the "snaffle" rings are connected through a hollow mouthpiece to which the shanks are attached meaning that the shanks move together. In the picures of the belton on the lynn russell bridle the shanks are loose on the "snaffle" mouthpiece and therefore move independently of each other as well as the mouthpiece.

 

[Patches]

Personally I think the later pictures that the poster posted of Ruby show the bit far more clearly and it doesn't look like a pelham, in the usual sense, in those pictures and neither does it look "wrong" to a first impression.

Clearly Ruby is happy in this bit, as is the poster, and to have such success in the show ring is testament to it's effectiveness and correctness.

I will hold my hands up and say on looking at the very first picture something about the bit didn't look quite right, but did wonder if it's use/fitting was more obvious when seen closer up. This is clearly the case because listening to the explanations and understanding how it works, combined with the later pictures a few pages ago, it is plainly obvious now that the bit is used/fitted as intended.

I wish you continued success for your lovely mare Ruby (and I would love to see her hogged!) and good luck to the OP, cob and onion, and her horse in their future showing attempts too.

Can I also say it was very gracious of River....can't remember the last bit of username....to post subsequent pictures of Ruby (strangely I remember the horse's name lol), given the comments the initial pictures drew.

 

[GingerCat]

OMG! I really do feel sorry for the OP who asked for an opinion on her cob, but instead had her thread hijacked by so many ignorant people banging on about bits!

If the bit in question worries you all so much you should have started your own thread!...Ridiculous

 

[Vizslak]

Here we go peeps, final information on the bit from Albion, who kindly got back to me this afternoon. Thanks RD for helping us all to learn something new, and to C&O for allowing the post hijack.

The Belton bit was designed as a training bit, it minimizes pressures on the bars and gives a positive indication through the reins.



The bit is fitted like a normal mullen mouth.



The snaffle contact is standard and for the curb the influence is totally outside of the mouth including poll pressure.



The bit gives a clear communication for training but it is not passed for competition use.



The Belton bit used currently being used by riders such as Emile Faurie who trains his younger horses in it before introducing the double bridle. It is fitted using a snaffle bridle with two sets of reins.

 

[FMM]

Thanks Vizslak -

I will say one more thing. Lots of people insisted that RD was totally wrong in the way she had fitted and was using this bit.

She could easily have been influenced by this and changed the fitting of the bridle and bit to what the majority were telling her to do. WHich would have meant the bit was then being used incorrectlyl.

So, we have many pages of questions and theories - including "professional opinions" from experts - and she was (according to the way I have understood your post) correct in the first place.

I believe we have all (or ought to have done) learnt something from this rather meandering post - that none of us know as much about bitting as we thought we did! And the professional opinion stating categorically that the bit was not fitted correctly was also misinformed.

And I salute RD for the calm and reasoned way she stuck with what she KNEW was correct.

 

[Serenity087]

How fascinating that you can entirely change the action of a bit with a little bit of fiddling!!!

I have to admit, I still don't understand how the pivot action of the curb has been removed or why there is a redundant ring on the top of it, but it just proves how much a bit is more than a lump of metal in a horses mouth!!!

Thank you for an informative thread.

P.S. - Deviation is the spice of life. The OP has had answers and now we've all learnt about a new bit. Why is this a problem?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

cool piece of kit OP, and a lovely horse

as to those who thought to 'check' with LR, seriously? lol.

 

[binkymerlin]

err, no! Totally different action and doesn't look the same at all!

The 'belton' bit has the mouthpiece attached to the 'bridoon/snaffle' rein with the 'curb' attachment freely swinging (therefore acts like a snaffle with a freely-rotating curb and no poll pressure)

The swales has the mouthpiece fixed to the curb rein, with the 'bridoon' freely rotating, so it acts like a weymouth, with a harsh action on the curb.

Two VERY different bits! I'd be very worried if you thought they acted in the same way....!!

haha oohhh look there is some info every one^^^

meh again if it works it works. and really? it doesn't look similar at all? blimy i must be tripping! poor op. i dunno you get women in a room together and chuck in a strange bit

 

[cob&onion]

i dunno you get women in a room together and chuck in a strange bit

yes i am the original OP - thanks for opinions about my girly, and i don't mind my post being hijacked - you learn something new everyday

 

[EAST KENT]

For my money any cob looks a Hell of a lot better "skinned" as in hogged,feathers skinned off and a lovely narrow pulled tail emerging from that "cook`s bottom"..bloody gorgeous. Hairy cobs make my trimming fingers itch,as I can always see how beautiful they could be.

 

[fleabittengrey]

For my money any cob looks a Hell of a lot better "skinned" as in hogged,feathers skinned off and a lovely narrow pulled tail emerging from that "cook`s bottom"..bloody gorgeous. Hairy cobs make my trimming fingers itch,as I can always see how beautiful they could be.

"Pop" - there goes another can of worms!!

 

[Riverdalelc]

Here we go peeps, final information on the bit from Albion, who kindly got back to me this afternoon. Thanks RD for helping us all to learn something new, and to C&O for allowing the post hijack.

The Belton bit was designed as a training bit, it minimizes pressures on the bars and gives a positive indication through the reins.



The bit is fitted like a normal mullen mouth.



The snaffle contact is standard and for the curb the influence is totally outside of the mouth including poll pressure.



The bit gives a clear communication for training but it is not passed for competition use.



The Belton bit used currently being used by riders such as Emile Faurie who trains his younger horses in it before introducing the double bridle. It is fitted using a snaffle bridle with two sets of reins.

Thank you for posting this, I rest my case.