Front shoes with side clips.....

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I have this done for winter at least, far better for hunting and fast work, as much less likely to spin a shoe off when turning quickly.
FLF's owner a little un sure, but has seen the benefits as her fronts have vastly improved

 

[nikicb]

My farrier uses them to help get the toe back, give heel support and improve breakover, that also reduces the risk of shoes being pulled off, both the shod horses on my yard are currently in them, the others are all barefoot.

My farrier shoes both my horses this way too. He can take more off the toes and says it helps support the heels. I hadn't thought about it, but they haven't lost shoes half as much since they've been shod this way (and we have knee deep clay bogs here!).

My OCD hates the look of it though!

My farrier uses them on my gelding as he currently has fairly bad sand cracks and generally poor quality hooves. He just uses them to help the shoes stay on a bit better and make them a bit more secure

This pretty well sums it up .
I have three out of five in these shoes .

One of my lads was moved to natural balance shoes on vet advice for better heel support and they have side clips. He had these type of shoes on for over 8 years without any issue and never lost one a shoe in the mud unlike my other horses

I have this done for winter at least, far better for hunting and fast work, as much less likely to spin a shoe off when turning quickly.
FLF's owner a little un sure, but has seen the benefits as her fronts have vastly improved

Thank you everyone - loads of really helpful responses. I think it may be due to underrun heels. Her shoes are now off as we had been looking at an abscess, but I think I may keep them that way to let her feet develop as they should. Will chat further with vet and farrier next week, but I feel like I know much more now thanks to everyone on here. xx

 

[PorkChop]

One of mine has been shod with front side clips all of her life, she is thirteen.

I thought it was pretty standard tbh, for certain types of hoof conformation, and not in a bad way

 

[little_critter]

My mare has side clips on her fronts. A few years ago my vet thought she was having issues with concussion in her fronts and advised side clips as it encourages the foot to break over and reduce concussion.

 

[Pie's mum]

My farrier uses them to help get the toe back, give heel support and improve breakover, that also reduces the risk of shoes being pulled off, both the shod horses on my yard are currently in them, the others are all barefoot.

This is why my farrier uses them on Pie!

 

[irishdraft]

My 2 horses are always shod with side clips in front

 

[Pinkvboots]

My farrier uses them to help get the toe back, give heel support and improve breakover, that also reduces the risk of shoes being pulled off, both the shod horses on my yard are currently in them, the others are all barefoot.

one of mine is shod this way for this reason, the other one has no toe clips on the fronts basically also for the same reason.

 

[JillA]

My farrier is doing a dissertation on side clips vs front clips for his Fellowship. Will make interesting reading - when I said has no-one else studied this he said no.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Just looking for reasons why a farrier might put these on a horse. My horse, but before I owned her. Not my farrier. Will ask my farrier when I see him next, but he has been a saint recently with questions and coming out, and also would like a broader spectrum of views. I don't really want opinions on whether they are right or wrong, just looking for reasons as to why a farrier might decide to use them. Thanks in advance. xx

MY old farrier did side clips to allow the tow to grow forward amongst other reasons

 

[ester]

Personally for some types I actually prefer them (was talking about this with someone else the other day who was a bit confused having never really seen it before) keeps the break over back/support the heel more/not encourage the heels to run forwards so much. I described it to them as sort of thinking of natural balance type shoeing with normal shoes.

Some old pics of Frank (before I started taking pics properly!)

single clip, heel running forwards, short shod/no heel support

granted a bar shoe but 2 clips, we wanted breakover back to help him roll over given the coffin joint DJD diagnosis.

 

[wills_91]

Haven't read all the replies my farrier shoes like this as standard

 

[crystalclear]

I haven't read all the replies either, but mine has fronts like this. Apparently one side clip is equal to two or four nails!

 

[Meredith]

Friends horse has these to support a heel that doesn't seem to grow as well as the rest of the hoof.

 

[teapot]

It was me Ester was talking to, as Bog Hoss has them behind with some hoof growth, and I was wondering about the benefits :smile3:

 

[Micropony]

My last horse was also shod with side clips in front. Farrier described his feet as looking too much like saucers and not enough like teacups and the horse needed longer heels and shorter toes with the breakover point further back. I wouldn't see it as anything sinister myself.

 

[nikicb]

Thank you all - loads more useful responses, and Micropony, the cup and saucer analogy makes sense.

Personally for some types I actually prefer them (was talking about this with someone else the other day who was a bit confused having never really seen it before) keeps the break over back/support the heel more/not encourage the heels to run forwards so much. I described it to them as sort of thinking of natural balance type shoeing with normal shoes.

Some old pics of Frank (before I started taking pics properly!)

single clip, heel running forwards, short shod/no heel support

granted a bar shoe but 2 clips, we wanted breakover back to help him roll over given the coffin joint DJD diagnosis.

Interesting and I think your photos answer my next question, which was whether they would actually allow the heel to grow as well as support it. I am just wondering, depending of course on the outcome of Wednesday's vet visit, whether to suggest going back to the side clips for a couple more rounds, allow the heels to grow a bit more, and then reconsider taking the fronts off again. As you know, I only ended up whipping the front shoes off so quickly as to leave one on didn't make sense. Oh decisions, decisions. I am sure this was all easier in the 'ignorance is bliss' days. Well for me anyway, probably not for the horse. x

 

[ester]

I think the best heel growth/least running forwards tubules happens without shoes, as you know. But obviously there are other things going on with her atm.
Fwiw years ago in the RS with quite a few lami prone ponies they were all shod with 2 toe clips and short toes so I am perhaps quite used to seeing it. - I think that is based on taking some pressure off the toe and easing the breakover. My old farrier before the above also always shod Frank with 2 toe clips and arguably looking at his feet later on in one that was right for him.

The foot with the bar shoe on above the vet was very happy with but pony not sound. Out of a shoe that foot looked like

so a much better heel than was started with

 

[nikicb]

I think the best heel growth/least running forwards tubules happens without shoes, as you know. But obviously there are other things going on with her atm.
Fwiw years ago in the RS with quite a few lami prone ponies they were all shod with 2 toe clips and short toes so I am perhaps quite used to seeing it. - I think that is based on taking some pressure off the toe and easing the breakover. My old farrier before the above also always shod Frank with 2 toe clips and arguably looking at his feet later on in one that was right for him.

The foot with the bar shoe on above the vet was very happy with but pony not sound. Out of a shoe that foot looked like

so a much better heel than was started with

Agreed re the best growth, but I have no wish to put her through 'cold turkey' if another way will work in the long run. Her heels do look worse now she is unshod. Will try and take some pics tomorrow and share with you privately (too scared to do it here at the moment!). Vet is coming at 11 on Wed if you are twiddling your thumbs that day. I am glad that I have posted this thread as it has helped me sort a few things out in my mind and understand a lot more. I am convinced this is a management issue with her. To be honest I am only getting the X rays to hopefully (fingers crossed please everyone) prove there is nothing sinister, then we will get on managing it. x

 

[ester]

Sadly will be at work!
I do always think heels look worse unshod on shod horses, shoes are quite crafty at making them look better than they are. ^^ once we got the shoe off that one I could certainly see things more easily.
See what is going on then we'll have a chat , but no rush to take them off forever at the moment.

 

[nikicb]

Sadly will be at work!
I do always think heels look worse unshod on shod horses, shoes are quite crafty at making them look better than they are. ^^ once we got the shoe off that one I could certainly see things more easily.
See what is going on then we'll have a chat , but no rush to take them off forever at the moment.

I thought as much. :/ But at least you have seen her feet twice so you know what I am working with.
Yes it is quite scary how under run they look, and I don't think that is helping her. I think she is sound, but sore if that makes sense? It is so intermittent, I can't believe it is a soft tissue injury/fracture etc. but obviously the X rays will help. Will get cracking with some pictures. Thank you as always. Hoof geek friends are good to have. x

 

[FfionWinnie]

What's the time line of what's happened with her. Ie why/when did you take the shoes off etc and when did she become sore, before or after?

My daughter's pony was utterly crippled when she lost a shoe just after purchase 18 months ago, however, she's been barefoot for a year now and is very sound. She is 13 and I was very (very!) worried about how lame she was without the shoe at the time.

 

[Dizzydancer]

I'm intrigued now my mare is in double front clips- will be enquiring from farrier as to why!!

 

[nikicb]

What's the time line of what's happened with her. Ie why/when did you take the shoes off etc and when did she become sore, before or after?

My daughter's pony was utterly crippled when she lost a shoe just after purchase 18 months ago, however, she's been barefoot for a year now and is very sound. She is 13 and I was very (very!) worried about how lame she was without the shoe at the time.

Not terribly exciting, but.....

Bought mid Nov, all fine. My farrier changed fronts to toe clips as didn't particularly like the side clips. Second round of shoeing, my farrier's assistant (could kick myself for this, but we had to change the date, but assistant is qualified and very caring, takes his time etc.) shod her in front. Within a few hours she was hopping. Farrier came back that day, took shoe off, checked with hoof testers, nothing. Hopping lameness went after 24 hours, but we have had residual slight heat and soreness ever since. Poulticed for a week and normal farrier came out. Had also spoken to him on phone. I could not fault him. He has been out 3 times along with telephone conversations, has removed charge for shoeing, just in case and regularly checks how she is doing. So we had a week poulticing in case of abscess. Nothing. A week off and seemed to get better. Farrier came out again. Decided on another week of poulticing then call vet. Still nothing from poulticing so vet out. Bizarrely heat only usually present after night in. When in in the evenings, no heat. Now have new infrared thermometer and this has been confirmed. Vet said could be deep bruising or LGL. Leave another week or so then X rays booked. This horse is not crippled but given what I have been through with my other one, I want to make sure she is ok before I crack on. TBH I am struggling a little, but it is so low grade I can't believe it is a massive problem, more a management one. x

 

[FfionWinnie]

So how long has the soreness been going on, when was the last shoeing?

I have just had 5 abscesses in 3 feet between 2 horses in the space of 2 weeks so maybe wouldn't discount an abscess or two yet (!).

With the first one (the D) I did actually think she had some sort of neurological disaster going on for a few days as she was walking on her hind toes. 4 of the 5 resolved without any sign of discharge on the poultices either, only one burst out the heel.

Everything crossed for you!

 

[nikicb]

So how long has the soreness been going on, when was the last shoeing?

I have just had 5 abscesses in 3 feet between 2 horses in the space of 2 weeks so maybe wouldn't discount an abscess or two yet (!).

With the first one (the D) I did actually think she had some sort of neurological disaster going on for a few days as she was walking on her hind toes. 4 of the 5 resolved without any sign of discharge on the poultices either, only one burst out the heel.

Everything crossed for you!

4 weeks now. It is just the most incredibly frustrating time. I am completely neurotic about soundness now and it is beginning to drive me round the bend. I too haven't totally ruled out an abscess. To me if it is intermittent, and not worsened by exercise, and she has had a few hooleys in the field since then, it would indicate either an infection or something metabolic. Bleddy horses. And thanks for the fingers crossed. xx

 

[FfionWinnie]

The sudden onset would scream infection as well.

Good luck for the X-rays. Let us know!

 

[nikicb]

The sudden onset would scream infection as well.

Good luck for the X-rays. Let us know!

Me as well. Will update once I know more. Thank you for listening. It helps. xx

 

[whizzer]

My TB with not terrible but not great feet has definitely had side clips on the front in the past,made a big difference in helping him keep shoes on. Tbh can'fteven think off the top of my head whether he's still shod like that,I'll have to scrape some mud off tom & check!

 

[nikicb]

I just thought I would provide a quick update on this thread as everyone was so helpful. Cassie has been reshod with thermoplastic pads and side clips in front. X-rays revealed nothing of any particular note which is great, and in a way they will serve as a benchmark if we ever need them in the future. More details here if you are interested: https://www.facebook.com/MrCamHorse/posts/655566944582336 I rode her gently yesterday and all seemed fine. No raised temps/digital pulses for a while now. My lovely vet did say that it often happens when horses change home, new farrier (even if doing a better job), new regime, new grazing, etc. Hopefully things will settle down and we can crack on. x

 

[Dave's Mam]

Fingers crossed she continues to get better.