Full grass livery - obligations

[tobiano1984]

Just wondering what the general consensus on full grass livery is, in terms of responsibility.
Paying nearly £200 per horse pcm. Having an issue that the farmer wants horses moving all the time to preserve grass (so they can collect grass scheme subsidies) and continuously moving already fat cobs to rich cattle pasture. Already nearly lost one to a lami attack which has since left. The only option being given is paying extra to have them moved onto a starvation pen each day (almost doubling monthly rate)
I feel when paying for ‘full’ livery, suitable grazing should be provided and managed by the yard - and grass that is going to kill them isn’t suitable. Likely going to have to move the horses which is a pain, but just wondered what thoughts were on this? A shame as the grass is great but it’s just too much for anything other than an anorexic TB! Is it unreasonable to expect the yard owner to provide grazing to suit horse needs? At least sacrifice some subsidies in order to have a few poor quality paddocks for good doers!

 

[AmyMay]

They can provide what they like.

 

[ihatework]

I think yards offer the facilities they offer and as a livery you decide whether they meet your needs.

So if a yard was offering a fairly low input come and eat my grass type livery, no I wouldn’t expect little bare paddocks and weight management techniques.

 

[tobiano1984]

I think yards offer the facilities they offer and as a livery you decide whether they meet your needs.

So if a yard was offering a fairly low input come and eat my grass type livery, no I wouldn’t expect little bare paddocks and weight management techniques.

This is true - just that the previous yard which closed, was considerably cheaper and managed all horse needs. Having run my own yard previously, I interpret ‘full’ as being - leave your horse with us and we will look after it.

 

[ihatework]

This is true - just that the previous yard which closed, was considerably cheaper and managed all horse needs. Having run my own yard previously, I interpret ‘full’ as being - leave your horse with us and we will look after it.

But not all yards are either set up or want to manage all scenarios. As an owner you need to evaluate if what the yard can accommodate meets your needs. It matters not a jot what a different yard does.

 

[stormox]

I think usually a farmer/field owner offers what he has to let, and you decide whether to take it or not.

 

[tobiano1984]

But not all yards are either set up or want to manage all scenarios. As an owner you need to evaluate if what the yard can accommodate meets your needs. It matters not a jot what a different yard does.

In this case it was set up next to the old yard and we were promised the same service and more if we moved, for a higher price. That hasn’t transpired so I think we will just move.

 

[tobiano1984]

I think usually a farmer/field owner offers what he has to let, and you decide whether to take it or not.

Again, this is full livery - I would get this if it was just a field rental or DIY but if it’s ‘managed’ I was under the impression that meant not having to worry about it as the owner. Otherwise might as well go DIY!

 

[JBM]

Would a grazing muzzle help?

 

[Widgeon]

it was set up next to the old yard and we were promised the same service and more if we moved, for a higher price. That hasn’t transpired so I think we will just move.

If that's the case then I think all you can do is move. But I'm sorry you've ended up stuck in this situation. I would move ASAP, before you start to run the risk of laminitis and EMS and all the other obesity related problems. The owner of the land doesn't seem to understand or care about the particular needs of horses, and I think I'd struggle to work with someone like that.

(FWIW £200 seems a lot for literally nothing but a field.)

 

[tobiano1984]

If that's the case then I think all you can do is move. But I'm sorry you've ended up stuck in this situation. I would move ASAP, before you start to run the risk of laminitis and EMS and all the other obesity related problems. The owner of the land doesn't seem to understand or care about the particular needs of horses, and I think I'd struggle to work with someone like that.

(FWIW £200 seems a lot for literally nothing but a field.)

Yes I think you’re right! And glad you
Agree, having previously charged £40 a month for diy grass livery on my own yard I expect more for £200

 

[AmyMay]

(FWIW £200 seems a lot for literally nothing but a field.)

It’s only £46 a week.

 

[planete]

The yard I am on will do a full grass livery with weight management. £390 a month. It requires quite a different set up to that available on most farms to do this well including strip grazing and a supply of mixed hay and straw.

 

[Widgeon]

It’s only £46 a week.

Depends entirely on area I think - round here you can get decent assisted DIY with an arena, parking, tackroom, paddocks etc for only about £300 a month. It sounds to me like the landowner is doing literally nothing for the money - he's not providing fencing or making the land suitable for horses in any way. He's just using them as lawnmowers on land for which he already collects subsidies. If the land was actually suitable horse grazing and the landowner was doing daily checks and feed / water then I agree £200 wouldn't look so bad. But it doesn't sound like he is.

 

[Widgeon]

The yard I am on will do a full grass livery with weight management. £390 a month. It requires quite a different set up to that available on most farms to do this well including strip grazing and a supply of mixed hay and straw.

That sounds brilliant. Just out of interest, does it have an enormous waiting list? I would've thought that sort of setup would be very much in demand.

 

[tobiano1984]

Depends entirely on area I think - round here you can get decent assisted DIY with an arena, parking, tackroom, paddocks etc for only about £300 a month. It sounds to me like the landowner is doing literally nothing for the money - he's not providing fencing or making the land suitable for horses in any way. He's just using them as lawnmowers on land for which he already collects subsidies. If the land was actually suitable horse grazing and the landowner was doing daily checks and feed / water then I agree £200 wouldn't look so bad. But it doesn't sound like he is.

Yes this is a long way from London!

 

[PeterNatt]

Move - You don't want to damage your horses.

 

[planete]

That sounds brilliant. Just out of interest, does it have an enormous waiting list? I would've thought that sort of setup would be very much in demand.

I do not think so. It is also a bit mind boggling for most people with a conventional background as no horse is stabled unless ill, you are only allowed front shoes and preferably none, and my gelding is in a field with a load of mares though there is a gelding herd and a mare herd as well. DIY liveries also have to do the normal chores like keeping fields, communal areas and barns clean.

 

[TheMule]

I think you're going to have to move. What you want is extremely punishing on the land and very labor intensive- it would require daily poo picking, increased ground maintenance and would need a lot of repairing afterwards. That’s clearly not the deal here, so you'll have to move.

 

[maya2008]

Grazing muzzles in the short term, probably move in the longer term. It would probably be cheaper to rent a field and get a freelancer to check, poo pick etc if you have several horses.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Again, this is full livery - I would get this if it was just a field rental or DIY but if it’s ‘managed’ I was under the impression that meant not having to worry about it as the owner. Otherwise might as well go DIY!

Full grass livery isn’t £200 pcm around here.

Completely DIY grass livery, no school no facilities is £170pcm. With all horse care and land management your responsibility.

If you are getting horse care and land management for £200pcm that’s very cheap!

I’m not surprised a restricted pen / paddock is more. Presumably need hay and poo picking by hand, and £400pcm full care seems reasonable.

I think if doesn’t work for you / your horse you should look around and see if can find a better fit.

 

[Sossigpoker]

It’s only £46 a week.

Livery isn't cheap around here but for that money you can get proper grass livery, where your horse will be checked, rugged , feeds and hay put out , held for Farrier or vet. £200 pcm for literally just a field and no service is a lot.

 

[Goldenstar]

Depends entirely on area I think - round here you can get decent assisted DIY with an arena, parking, tackroom, paddocks etc for only about £300 a month. It sounds to me like the landowner is doing literally nothing for the money - he's not providing fencing or making the land suitable for horses in any way. He's just using them as lawnmowers on land for which he already collects subsidies. If the land was actually suitable horse grazing and the landowner was doing daily checks and feed / water then I agree £200 wouldn't look so bad. But it doesn't sound like he is.

Have you any idea how much land costs he is running a business doing it for the money, if the service he offers does not suit you need to move and do it quickly.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

Wow that’s expensive grass livery which isn’t meeting your needs. I don’t think you have any option but to move to a grass only livery specifically set up for horses.

 

[Auslander]

I think it's just a case of the situation not matching your needs, rather than the yard failing to provide a service. I would expect a horse in full grass livery to be managed according to it's needs though - and if the specific need can't be met, moving is really the only option.
I have the opposite - not a lot of grass, which makes it much easier to manage weight, but it's a lot more labour intensive. I can see why they charge a premium for using their weight restricted areas.
Your current rate is very cheap for full grass livery-if they aren't doing much more than making sure horses are upright and eating, I'd call it "supervised", rather than "full.

 

[Jellymoon]

I guess he’s doing his version of full livery, moving horses onto fresh grass when he thinks the field they are on is overgrazed, and I assume checking them and doing whatever else they need. It’s just that’s not appropriate management for anything other than a certain type of horse, it’s more like fattening cattle!

The price is not the issue, imo. You will have to move, sadly. What a shame.

 

[ycbm]

I don't think that's expensive if there are stables available for an emergency and an arena.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

They can provide what they like.

Exactly you can't expect people to supply the grazing you need just find something that suits your horses.

 

[tobiano1984]

Exactly you can't expect people to supply the grazing you need just find something that suits your horses.

Yes, we will move. However the full livery contract does stipulate providing suitable grazing, and if it’s going to make them ill it’s not really suitable!

 

[Widgeon]

I feel like lots of people here are missing the OP's point, which was that when they moved, "it was set up next to the old yard and we were promised the same service and more if we moved, for a higher price.". But the farmer is not providing anything like the same service, and it sounds like he's arguably not fulfilling the terms of the contract. Hence the problem.