Full livery - a question....

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Acolyte

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I ride a horse 3-4 times a week for his owner as she is too busy to ride him regularly. The horse is kept on full livery, and is currently living out 24/7 as he has a dust allergy.

The YO has asked me to write in the yard diary which days I am coming up to ride, and approx what time - although the owner is not required to do this
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Tonight I got to the yard to find a note asking me to feed and turn out the horse after I had ridden. The horse gets a ridiculously large quantity of hard feed every day and eats very slowly, so I would have to hang around for at least 45 mins (not exagerating there!) for him to eat before he could go out

I thought that with full livery it would not be unreasonable for the YO to turn him out after he had eaten? She has to come onto the yard later on in the evening to shut the chickens away, and the horses field is the nearest one to the stables so it would take her literally 2 mins to sling him out into the field.

Is this an unreasonable expectation for me to have? I have always done DIY livery so I dont know how full livery works...but they do bring the horse in for me when I am due to ride, so why are they not prepared to turn it out?
 
Usually on full livery the yard staff finish working full time by 5pm as they will have started around 7am. At our yard the staff change rugs, feed, water etc up until 10pm, but this is fairly unusual on a normal full livery service. Anything that happens after 5pm is usually up to the owner/rider of the horse to sort out.
 
I ride horses for people, and if I have to do anything like that for them then I tell them that is included in the time. As in if I have to go and catch the horse and turn it out and that takes 15 mins, then the horse only gets ridden 30 mins. They pay me for 45 minutes and that is the total time I spend with their horse. This is my living, and no owner has ever had a problem with that.

I'd have a chat with the owner saying that you really can't afford to spend that amount of time up there and either she pays you more for your time or she sorts something out with the YO.
 
We sometimes have owners or others coming to ride horses, we groom and will tack them up if they want us too and we take horses off of them when finished. If someone is coming after we have finished at 5pm then the YO will stay behind to do the horse or if she is not there one of us will. Unless the owner/rider is happy to do the horse themselves, ie they offer too, then we will do them for them. All of our horses are on full livery. We would not expect a owner/rider to do their horse themselves, thats what we are paid to do.
 
If it is a one off then fair enough or if the times you come are ad hoc mean a change to the horses normal routine then I wouldn't mind. I have a similar arrangement and YO is good about keeping horse in when I'm coming because he's difficult to catch even tho it means extra haynets and mucking out so I don't mind if she asks me to turn out after. BUT as scotsmare said they are getting paid to do that not you. Maybe trying to edge you out? If you weren't there would they be getting paid to exercise it?
 
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Usually on full livery the yard staff finish working full time by 5pm as they will have started around 7am. At our yard the staff change rugs, feed, water etc up until 10pm, but this is fairly unusual on a normal full livery service. Anything that happens after 5pm is usually up to the owner/rider of the horse to sort out.

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I can definitely see your point there, but when I asked the YO if he could be fed at 4pm every day (to give him time to digest before being ridden) she said that wasnt possible?

Fair enough the regular groom is off sick ATM but YO has employed a replacement...
 
The yard where I keep my horse finishes the livery service at 5pm (although they are flexible) - after that time it is the owner / riders responsibilty to turn the horse out.
 
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If horse is on full livery it shouldn't matter when you're coming up - suspect YO is using you as an unpaid groom...

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I think she is too - I have kept my own horse at the same yard for the past 5 years or so until I sold him, always on DIY, so I think that YO thinks this means she can take the p**s in a way she wouldnt do with the horses owner
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I ride horses for people, and if I have to do anything like that for them then I tell them that is included in the time. As in if I have to go and catch the horse and turn it out and that takes 15 mins, then the horse only gets ridden 30 mins. They pay me for 45 minutes and that is the total time I spend with their horse. This is my living, and no owner has ever had a problem with that.

I'd have a chat with the owner saying that you really can't afford to spend that amount of time up there and either she pays you more for your time or she sorts something out with the YO.

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I dont get paid for riding him - she was paying someone, but I put a note up asking for something to ride after I had sold my own horse so she contacted me instead. I get free riding, she doesnt have to pay anyone, so it is a win/win situation for us
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We sometimes have owners or others coming to ride horses, we groom and will tack them up if they want us too and we take horses off of them when finished. If someone is coming after we have finished at 5pm then the YO will stay behind to do the horse or if she is not there one of us will. Unless the owner/rider is happy to do the horse themselves, ie they offer too, then we will do them for them. All of our horses are on full livery. We would not expect a owner/rider to do their horse themselves, thats what we are paid to do.

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When I win the lottery all my horses are coming to be on full livery at your yard, you sound fantastic
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If it is a one off then fair enough or if the times you come are ad hoc mean a change to the horses normal routine then I wouldn't mind. I have a similar arrangement and YO is good about keeping horse in when I'm coming because he's difficult to catch even tho it means extra haynets and mucking out so I don't mind if she asks me to turn out after. BUT as scotsmare said they are getting paid to do that not you. Maybe trying to edge you out? If you weren't there would they be getting paid to exercise it?

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No, they dont offer a riding service so I am not edging them out - more a case of the YO trying to avoid some work I fear
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Can't really help because I don't keep my horses on livery but if I was paying for full livery I would expect them to turn horse out unless it was after normal hours.
 
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Are yard owners supposed to be on call 24/7? Think about it. Some people want to be on the yard before 6am others up till 9 or 10pm. Sounds a bit harsh to me
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As I've said above somewhere, I can definitely see your point here - but then why can the YO not feed the horse at 4pm, problem solved
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She refused to do that!
 
Yes. That is ridiculous. If the horse can be fed at 4pm and you are riding at, say, 6pm, then you can ride and turn out and everyone is happy. I can understand that most yards like to feed at the same time if they are all full livery, but it is easy enough to put an extra feed in to a horse at lunch time without feeding the entire yard, so why not 4pm instead?
 
Have a quiet word with the horse owner, tell them the YO is making your life dfficult - if they lose you they may have to pay someone to exercise their horse! See if the bill payer can resolve the problem.

However, if full livery is paid for and the requests are reasonable and at a decent hour, the YO is taking the mick a bit, eh!

Is it a farm livery or an equestrian livery?
 
It is an equestrian livery place..... I was thinking I might speak to the horses owner, she NEVER gets any hassle from the YO
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It seems you get less and less for full livery these days. I wonder what full livery constitutes when the horse is out 24/7. Its not as if theres going to be any mucking out.

That said, YOs cannot be "on call" at all times of day or night. And I kind of see feeding and turning out my horse after riding as a kind of thank you for the riding. Like hosing down if the horse has sweated. So I don't think it is totally unreasonable, if you are riding in the evenings, to feed and turn out after riding. Does the horse have to have so much hard feed? If the YO will not feed at 4pm, can she give a larger morning feed or 2 feeds earlier on in the day so that you can just give a small feed after riding?
 
Agree with spookythoroughbred. Speak wih horse owner. They may not be so quick to be difficult with them because are the paying clients and full livery does not come cheap!
 
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It seems you get less and less for full livery these days. I wonder what full livery constitutes when the horse is out 24/7. Its not as if theres going to be any mucking out.

That said, YOs cannot be "on call" at all times of day or night. And I kind of see feeding and turning out my horse after riding as a kind of thank you for the riding. Like hosing down if the horse has sweated. So I don't think it is totally unreasonable, if you are riding in the evenings, to feed and turn out after riding. Does the horse have to have so much hard feed? If the YO will not feed at 4pm, can she give a larger morning feed or 2 feeds earlier on in the day so that you can just give a small feed after riding?

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TBH I have no idea why the horse has so much feed - it is a cob type, and the most work it ever does is be hacked for max an hour 5 times a week. When I have had cob types before they thrived on hay/grass with no hard feed at all - this horse has 2 scoops of mix and a scoop of Alfa A morning AND evening
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I also wonder what the owner is paying for TBH, other than the peace of mind knowing she doesnt have to go and see it every day, but the YO is really getting money for not very much. I believe the owner is paying something like £80 a week for her horse to be fly sprayed, fed twice a day, and rugged as necessary.

Hmmmm, perhaps I should offer to look after the horse and undercut the YO's rates
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We run a full livery business from home and therefore fortunate that 'out of hours' generally isnt a problem. Our liveries respect and understand our time off though and are almost always very happy to do whatever needs doing themselves if essential.

Some of our liveries tell us when theyre coming to ride so that we can ensure the horse is in, clean and so that we can adjust feeding time accordingly. This is very helpful but many liveries come up same time everyday so are already settld into a routine
 
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TBH I have no idea why the horse has so much feed - it is a cob type,


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I think you'll find this horse is known as a 'Warmblood' and I was firmly corrected when I suggested it had some Shire blood in there....as it looked not dissimilar to a horse I know....
S
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TBH I have no idea why the horse has so much feed - it is a cob type, and the most work it ever does is be hacked for max an hour 5 times a week. When I have had cob types before they thrived on hay/grass with no hard feed at all - this horse has 2 scoops of mix and a scoop of Alfa A morning AND evening
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So they are having to bring the horse in at least twice a day to feed it anyway?
 
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[quote
TBH I have no idea why the horse has so much feed - it is a cob type, and the most work it ever does is be hacked for max an hour 5 times a week. When I have had cob types before they thrived on hay/grass with no hard feed at all - this horse has 2 scoops of mix and a scoop of Alfa A morning AND evening
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So they are having to bring the horse in at least twice a day to feed it anyway?

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Yes, I think they must do, as it shares a field with another horse which is now out 24/7 too
 
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TBH I have no idea why the horse has so much feed - it is a cob type,


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I think you'll find this horse is known as a 'Warmblood' and I was firmly corrected when I suggested it had some Shire blood in there....as it looked not dissimilar to a horse I know....
S
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S - that horse is no more a b****y Warmblood than I am a size zero
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God knows what it is mind you, I always call it a cob but I am really not sure. I think your idea of a Shire x might be the nearest to the mark
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Our working hours are 7.30 to 5pm. If we were asked to feed a horse in the afternoon so it can be exercised in the evening then we would do, but unless there is a very good reason for it we don't work out of hours, and this is reflected in what we charge our liveries. After all I work six days a week as well as having two kids, a house, two dogs and a horse of my own to look after, so a bit off time when I am not running around after liveries shouldn't be too much to ask for.
So yes I agree that she should feed the horse in the afternoon for you, but after hours...turn it out yourself.
 
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