Fun colour thread

[ClobellsandBaubles]

I know there has been a few lately and people seem to be interested so I though I would ask a question, not sure if this will be moved by here goes.

I am particularly interested in particularly 'loud' offspring out of plain minimally coloured parents particularly in warmbloods and other breeds that tend to have less white. Does anyone know of any good examples of this, I would love to see?

At work we have a yearling out of two bay parents with very minimal to no white and he has high stockings and a big white face. There is also this guy is out of two bay parents and thought to be dominant white. I find it fascinating when odd ones crop up unexpectedly with lots of white or even blue eyes or even the reverse, horses with lots of white producing something very minimally marked or with obvious gene suppression like a badger face.

Oh dear I have waffled on hope that's not too confusing.
Here's the picture....
Machan Loss Swedish trotter

 

[Meowy Catkin]

In one of my arabian magazines a mare is mentioned that was a big surprise when she was born as she is a maximum sabino. I'll try to find out her name as it should be easy to find photos of her parents then.

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

I think the American term is crop out??
I bet this dude was a surprise although no the first high splash white section D I have seen surely they couldn't be registered as pure bred?

There does seem to be some very colourful arabs stateside especially. Quite a few by Khartoon Khlassic but that's not surprising. I saw a gorgeous KWPN for sale last year who was a lovely loud bay sabino with loads of roaning I wish I could have found it again and looked the breeding up I think the stallion was solid bay though.

 

[Pinkvboots]

How lovely he looks like his been dipped in chalk

 

[Wagtail]

I think the American term is crop out??
I bet this dude was a surprise although no the first high splash white section D I have seen surely they couldn't be registered as pure bred?

There does seem to be some very colourful arabs stateside especially. Quite a few by Khartoon Khlassic but that's not surprising. I saw a gorgeous KWPN for sale last year who was a lovely loud bay sabino with loads of roaning I wish I could have found it again and looked the breeding up I think the stallion was solid bay though.

Wow, he's stunning!

 

[Capriole]

I'd not be happy at all if I unexpectedly got 'loud' when I was hoping for bay...

Re the purebred Welsh, I've seen loudly marked welsh foals on an American forum that I was sure wouldn't get full registration here and I found that quite interesting!

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

Same gene in this PRE filly very unusual http://www.grupopre.com/v2/v3_sementales_ficha.php?id=935

I don't think they do get full bred here as they are classed as skewbald/piebald as they have white above the midline so belly splashes in sabino ie. Nebo Brenin are ok but above no even if it's the same genotype but can be registered as part bred I think even if both the parents are registered section D's might be different in the US they are unusual but totally plausible that they can pop up out of solid parents as splash and sabino as far as we know are in welsh and many other breeds that are typically 'coloured'.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

How lovely he looks like his been dipped in chalk

agree unusual and stunning

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

I'd not be happy at all if I unexpectedly got 'loud' when I was hoping for bay...

I think that's why they are quite difficult to find as people don't register or advertise them particularly in breeds where you can register a coloured as full bred.

 

[pansymouse]

How lovely he looks like his been dipped in chalk

Funny you should say that because I immediately saw a chocolate dipped grey

 

[Capriole]

I don't think they do get full bred here as they are classed as skewbald/piebald as they have white above the midline so belly splashes in sabino [...] might be different in the US they are unusual but totally plausible that they can pop up out of solid parents as splash and sabino as far as we know are in welsh and many other breeds that are typically 'coloured'.

Yes, I actually went and looked out the regs for both countries as the thread interested me due to everyone going 'hey that's great' when my first reaction was aw no, all that white, what a shame! lol

I think that's why they are quite difficult to find as people don't register or advertise them particularly in breeds where you can register a coloured as full bred.

Totally. That's partly why I'd be gutted, I wouldn't be able to register the foal properly as a purebred.

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

Yes, I actually went and looked out the regs for both countries as the thread interested me due to everyone going 'hey that's great' when my first reaction was aw no, all that white, what a shame! lol



Totally. That's partly why I'd be gutted, I wouldn't be able to register the foal properly as a purebred.

Understandable but int he case of welshes I think it might need a rethink as they seem to be very keen on the high whites and blazes so these guys are bound to pop up in seems unfair that they can't be registered when the gene is technically allowed and in some cases encouraged.

 

[happyclappy]

welshies cannot be registered fully if they are coloured/piebald/skewbald.

coloured arabians have long since been known and registered as a seperte breed called pintabians.

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

welshies cannot be registered fully if they are coloured/piebald/skewbald.

coloured arabians have long since been known and registered as a seperte breed called pintabians.

True but pintabians are not full bred arabians they are 98% plus and carry the tobiano gene you can get pretty flashy sabino full bred arabs not pintabians whichcan be registered as arab.

The problem in welshes is that it can be the same gene that creates belly roaning or splashes, stocking and blazes that creates colourful welshes that then can't be registered which seems unfair. But yes the welshes don't have tobiano gene which is what most people in the UK think of when they think piebald and skewbald and is dominant gene when carried so you wouldn't get a crop out as such.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

What about the idiocy of not being able to register double dilute Connemaras when the cream gene runs through the breed (and buckskin connies are so very popular)?

C&B is quite right - pintabians are not purebred arabs. The breed standard for purebred arabs states that they should have black skin (well mostly black skin as sabino belly spots - even quite big ones - and big leg/face markings are OK).

Funny you should say that because I immediately saw a chocolate dipped grey

It's nothing to do with the grey gene.

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

What about the idiocy of not being able to register double dilute Connemaras when the cream gene runs through the breed (and buckskin connies are so very popular)?

C&B is quite right - pintabians are not purebred arabs. The breed standard for purebred arabs states that they should have black skin (well mostly black skin as sabino belly spots - even quite big ones - and big leg/face markings are OK).


It's nothing to do with the grey gene.

But connies are dun aren't they Maybe that's where the double dilute phobia comes from

 

[Gloi]

What about the idiocy of not being able to register double dilute Connemaras when the cream gene runs through the breed (and buckskin connies are so very popular)?

That's just plain ignorance on the part of the breed society, now that the genetics are understood maybe one day they'll see sense.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That's just plain ignorance on the part of the breed society, now that the genetics are understood maybe one day they'll see sense.

When Hell freezes over maybe?

 

[doriangrey]

What about the idiocy of not being able to register double dilute Connemaras when the cream gene runs through the breed (and buckskin connies are so very popular)?

C&B is quite right - pintabians are not purebred arabs. The breed standard for purebred arabs states that they should have black skin (well mostly black skin as sabino belly spots - even quite big ones - and big leg/face markings are OK).


It's nothing to do with the grey gene.

You can register a blue-eyed cream Connemara but it will registered as Class 2. Seems a bit daft to exclude it but they are allowed to breed under the stud book rules (CPBS) and so their progeny can progress to Class 1. I've seen some very nice blue-eyed cream ponies.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Thanks for correcting me DG. I must have misunderstood the situation.

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

When Hell freezes over maybe?

You'd think breed societies would want to know about the genotypes found in their breeds maybe it' just seen as too American to have 'loud' ponies not restrained British ponies

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

http://www.wbfsh.org/GB/News.aspx?n...accb0da0bb1511df851a0800200c9a67=1&newsId=101
This guy caused a bit of a stir as I don't believe either of his parents appear to carry the roan gene which is dominant although it doesn't seem to have effected his value

If you look up VDL Adagio II I bet he was a bit of a surprise too. I would love to see if he threw come funky babies.

 

[ester]

What's the thinking on the roan WB then cloball?

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

What's the thinking on the roan WB then cloball?

I am thinking either a new mutation similar to classic roan maybe on KIT gene or his dam looks like she might carry sabino so a strange sabino expression?? Juries out.

 

[doriangrey]

Thanks for correcting me DG. I must have misunderstood the situation.

No, I think they changed it when the new classification came in although someone might correct me. If you look at the breed standard (cpbs) it only mentions dark-eyed creams. So, they are not wanted because you can't show them as they don't fit the breed standard - daft! I'd love to know the reason for their exclusion, although I have heard it mentioned to be stable blindness.

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

How do you get dark eyed creams? Unless they are talking about very pale pallys. I didn't think blue eyes were any less effective than brown ones that would be interesting to know. I have a love of blue eyes you can get so many different shades.

 

[doriangrey]

How do you get dark eyed creams? Unless they are talking about very pale pallys. I didn't think blue eyes were any less effective than brown ones that would be interesting to know. I have a love of blue eyes you can get so many different shades.

I don't know that blue eyes are less effective - have any studies been done on mammals? As for dark-eyed creams that is what is stated on the cpbs webs, I'll leave that to you and Faracat!

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I have nothing intelligent to add to this thread but am really enjoying the reading

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

I wouldn't have thought so as the blue colour is the iris not the retina unless its more 'holey' and lets more light in.
This champagne is a dark eyed cream http://www.tnwalk.com/horses/view/131

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Cream double dilutes (cremello, perlino and smoky cream) all have pale blue eyes as far as I'm aware. I've not read about any health problems (eg blindness) associated with the cream gene.