Further to the frozen water post....who should provide the water?

Patches

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I am shocked at the amount of you who are fetching and carrying water from home to your horses.

I understand ir completely if you rent a field and don't have access to other plumbed premises on site, should your water trough's freeze. However for those on DIY livery yards, where the owners live in a house on site, I cannot for the life of me understand why you need to be carting it from home.

Does you YO actively deny access to an alternative supply, even if it's from his home? I know the weather cannot be helped, but surely a provision of water (if you moved to somewhere which had running water) should be maintained at all times for the welfare of the animals?

Luckily our stables are pretty warm, so the auto water bowls and internal tap haven't yet frozen. The outside tap has frozen though. Water troughs in the field are huge, so I break the ice each morning. We provide a kettle for use for drinks, making warm feeds or if anyone wanted to just tip some hot water into the water bowls to take the chill off etc.

However, should the stable's supply freeze I would allow access, without question, to the dairy or parlour which both have household standard plumbing (namely underground pipework, lagged where it comes up to the tap, brick built buildings, closed doors and windows etc. If they froze, so would the house!

If we didn't have the dairy and parlour I would fill containers up in the home and deposit them in the stables for use. I would draw the line at a procession of boots through my living room and into the kitchen, but I would make up for that by doing the lugging on the liveries behalf.

I really don't get why you're doing it yourselves peeps!
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Tinkerbee

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[ QUOTE ]


I really don't get why you're doing it yourselves peeps!
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[/ QUOTE ]

Because horse owning turns normally sane people into daft saps?
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Dolcé

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We are so lucky to have most of ours still living out with running water in the field but do have a couple in, plus the hens and geese that need fresh water twice a day. Our YO doesn't live on site but even if they did I would prefer to take my own water whilst the pipes are frozen then I can use what I need without worrying I would need to ask for more. I think it is probably just the done thing on DIY livery, I have certainly never questioned it on either of the yards I have been on.
 

Patches

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I really don't get why you're doing it yourselves peeps!
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[/ QUOTE ]

Because horse owning turns normally sane people into daft saps?
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[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yes, I'm guilty of that one too! My rabble refuse to come in of an evening. Spot them all by the hedge line in the picture below, I was stood by the gate. I have to go down the field one by one to drag the little blighters in, whilst they stand there just watching me approach!!!!

Really annoys me when they decide to make a run up the field just as I reach them!
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Patches

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Having spoken about it on another forum, it seems most people do expect the YO to fill containers and leave them in the stables for the liveries to use though, which made me wonder why it appears that most of you on DIY here just accept it's something you have to do for yourselves.
 

luckilotti

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As a YO, this is what i am doing:

defrosting taps where possible
filling bins full of water in one block (indoor stables)
filling various water containers
filling loads of 5 litre water bottles (handy i only drink bottled water!)
filling a large IBC container - which was an ice cube yesterday!
turning on an extra supply in a polytunnel that has an isolator on so doesnt seem to freeze
filly up horses water buckets when i am down!
defrosting hosepipes and when connected, filling up every possible water container!

AND then ontop of that, i am bringing the empty water containers home to refill at home overnight, so that 1st thing in the am, there is more than enough as taps wont be defrosted, and the water containers i have been leaving at the yard (inside!) have been freezing!

there are houses onsite i could also source water from if needed.

IMO - no matter if you are a DIY or not, the YO SHOULD be supplying water as its a basic need!!!
 

Patches

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There's only six horses on site here, four being my own.

As I say, we're not freezing yet, even in at -8.4 the other morning. Internal taps/water drinkers all frost free so far. However I WOULD provide access to another tap IF if does freeze, including from the house if this was the only available option.

I tend to agree with you, it's a basic requirement.
 

Annagain

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Under normal circumstances I would expect water to be available but in these extreme conditions I take some water with me just in case. YO will supply water from house if necessary but they also have jobs and aren't always there when I am so I like to have a backup plan.
 

chestnut cob

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[ QUOTE ]
Having spoken about it on another forum, it seems most people do expect the YO to fill containers and leave them in the stables for the liveries to use though, which made me wonder why it appears that most of you on DIY here just accept it's something you have to do for yourselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said I expected YO to fill up containers and leave them in the stables. She does it of her own accord because she doesn't like to see horses without water and she's one of those "well, I'm doing mine so I may as well do yours too" types. What I said was that whilst the horses are being kept in, which YO says they have to be ATM, if my horse's water is frozen then I'd expect her to break the ice on it in the stable. If he then drinks all of that and the pipes are frozen, as they are now, whilst he is standing in all day then yes, I'd expect her to fill up the water if he drinks it all.

As part of my livery package, my horse is usually TO, BI and mucked out mon-fri. If for any reason he has to stay in at YO's request, like now, then yes I expect her to make sure he has hay and water during this time, and I know she would ensure he does. Similarly, I'm on the sort of yard where the first person to arrive in the morning gives every horse their breakfast and hangs a haynet (already made up) for each horse.

I wouldn't expect my YO to fill up huge containers of water for us all to use and if the YO is leaving at 4pm and expects an owner to be there at 4.30pm to do their own horse then no, I wouldn't expect her to go out of her way to fill up that horse's water as it won't hurt being left for a little while.

I actually don't think I've ever been on a yard where the YO hasn't made sure we don't have water. At a previous yard, YO's dad would fill up every field trough daily if needed when he filled up the troughs in the cow fields. However, they wouldn't do the water in the stables unless you were full / part livery. Running water was provided on the yard (and they made sure it was always running) so you'd be expected to do that yourself, but then again we had to do that all year round anyway.
 

Patches

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Sorry CC, I meant in the stable blocks, not filling water tubs for individual horses. Vague comment on my part, which was interpreted incorrectly.

The difference for you is that you are Part Livery. Of course there is absolutely no question that your horse should be provided with water during the day, especially as you pay to not have to go up in the morning before work. Just the same as Part Livery will no doubt cover skipping out of a morning if he's in and haying. Stands to reason.

I'm the same as your YO. Whilst a livery is off site, every time I'm over the stables I would automatically check the livery horse had hay/water. If my auto water bowls were frozen and I needed to fill buckets, obviously I would then fill buckets for the livery horses as it would be obvious theirs would also be frozen. Same as I chuck feeds in of a morning, without even contemplating a charge, as I'm over there and it takes a couple of seconds...so why not? If I can help, I will. Happy to and always appreciate the un-prompted thanks I get.
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I was talking about DIY'ers. I am shocked, genuinely, how many DIY'ers think do it yourself refers to supply the water at source where taps are frozen. I do not think it should mean this. As I have said on the other forum, I would be willing and able to provide an alternative source of running water in the event our stable block supply did freeze up.

I would only provide tubs into the stable block, to be used for whatever is necessary, should the only available source of freely running water be the house. With the way our house is laid out, I wouldn't want people tramping through my living room to get to the kitchen.....but I still wouldn't expect it to be brought from the livery's home.
 
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lilym

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We can use the YO's house but TBH it is much easier for me to get water from home/work due to not having to Q for it!!! it's in the truck, ready to go straight into the feilds!! laziness on my part I'm afraid!!
 

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Our DIY yard is totally separate from the main full livery yard and the YO's house; it's about a five minute each way steep uphill walk to his house, unfathomable with a full water container! I might as well fill the container at home, put it in the boot of my car and drive it right onto our yard.

In the past he had a wet room/customer toilet on the back of the house which we filled water from but he's since closed that off to build a holiday cottage so we'd literally have to queue up to get into his kitchen, muddy boots and all. I am still annoyed about him closing that room off, there was hot water on tap and everything.
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In all honesty I don't know how the full livery horses are being watered, in the brief time I was on that yard in the past I saw many go without water in these kind of conditions.
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There are only two of us on the DIY yard - I live 10 minutes drive away and the other lady lives three houses away - she has not once offered to let me have water from hers which has surprised me somewhat, in that situation I'd offer to fill all the containers and buckets myself.
 

Puppy

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QR - I rent a small yard (grazing, stables and feed/hay room) from a farmer. The water pipes are frozen in any part of the yard atm - his and mine. I have recently, on a couple of occasions, brought water from home to top up the water trough in my horses' field (they are out 24/7). It's just easier to bring it from my kitchen, in one large drum, in my car, once a day, than to get it bucket by bucket from YO's kitchen, not least as I can't guarantee that he will be home whenever I'm there, and I'd hate to get his kitchen all muddy!
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YO is currently (since boxing day
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) without a boiler, and his wife is unwell, so, I don't mind about this.
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If it were a more long term issue, then I'm sure he would allow me to go backwards and forwards fetching it from his kitchen, but I don't want to cause them such trouble. Were I to be on a livery yard, where the YO lived on site, then yes, I would expect them to hook up a hose pipe from their kitchen to provide water.
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chestnut cob

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Technically I'm a DIY but that's a technicality down to the terms my YO uses. I'd call myself PL too but she calls it DIY because I do him at weekends. When ours have to stay in, that includes the DIYs as well. There isn't an option at our yard to turn out once she says they have to stay in. So, if they're all in even the DIYs would have their horses hayed, watered and mucked out in the morning.
 

Patches

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Yup. I would do that too if my livery wasn't on the yard by the time I'd finished my horses. Only fair on the horses.
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Tinypony

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As a DIY livery myself, I'd think it fair enough to help out a bit in extreme conditions. Last winter all the water froze at the yard where my horses lived, the YO did her best dragging containers up, defrosting taps etc, and the liveries helped. Well, most of the liveries helped. One just turned up, played with her pony for a while, drank tea, and went again. Walking straight past YO and me, filling containers slowly from one tap and wheelbarrowing them to all the horses - including her pony.
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Obviously if the YO had easy access to water then I'd expect them to make it available. If not, well, I think DIY implies a certain amount of commitment in trying times.
 

Colleen_Miss_Tom

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Because I am such a nice livery and to save YO any bother
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I actually do agree with you though patches .
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Our YO has been filling the water containers , but not every day, So I have just been bringing warm water out myself and hoping it doesn't freeze over until the following morning . There is one particular livery on our yard that does nothing, and the less you do about the yard the more respect you get .
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I obviously don't want my horse to go without water though, so instead of making it an issue .... I just go off on my merry way and get the water myself .
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Col x
 

star

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i'm on DIY. my trough is not self filling, i have to turn the tap on and hook up the pipe when i want to refill it. as it's frozen i normally cart it from the main tap down to the field in containers in a wheelbarrow. yesterday morning even the main tap was frozen so was lucky i thought to bring some from home. YO lives in a trailer on site with just a kitchen tap. it wouldn't be possible to fill large water containers from her tap. i dont expect her to fill all the troughs by hand - it would take her alll day. we all just epect to chip in and heklp in these conditions.
 

marmalade76

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I think the owner of a horse is ultimately responsible for providing it with water. Its unfair to expect to invade a yard owner's kitchen when you have your own, especially as they have no control over the weather!
 

PeterNatt

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This is an interesting one as under the new Animal Welfare Act it makes the horses welfare ultimately the yard owners resposibility. Therefore the yard owner is responsible for ensuring a supply of clean drinking water at all times.
Therefore it is the yard owners responsibility to ensure that the yard has a supply of clean running water at all times and whatever the weather conditions (hot or cold).
One solution would be to have a source of water from an internal source that does not freeze up in cold weather or alternatively provide a water bowser.
Fields could have additional water troughs so that even if the water supply freezes there is sufficient water in the existing water troughs for a period of say two weeks.
 

PucciNPoni

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Due to road conditions being so bad, I've only been going up once a day to see to my mare who is on box rest (getting a lift with someone with a 4x4). Which means that I've been stuffing extra nets, doing her bed and doing up all her feeds and handwalking in that visit, and asking someone who might be there later to throw a feed in for her. The other day I got a text saying that the YO had arranged buckets of water to be placed in to stables for every horse as they were worried about the auto drinkers freezing up. I was very grateful for this and to be honest, I was surprised too because at my last yard the YO would just sometimes go up and turn the drinkers off but not tell anyone! It was purely up to us to cart buckets of water from troughs in fields. More annoyingly though he'd sometimes do it after all had gone for the evening and the horses would have empty/frozen drinkers and therefore no water!

I think that as a DIY it's up to me to keep the water supply operable as much as possible (ie break ice in outdoor troughs, keep the auto drinker pipes covered as much as possible (ours are at floor level and easily covered with bed banks), help anyone else who can't get there to see that their horse has water. HOwever failing all that, I think carting water from my home is perhaps a step too far (unless the YO's home could not provide). I know that my YO without a doubt would gladly dole out water if necessary from her kitchen/bath.
 

daisybe33

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I think there seems to be alot of differance between the YO that have horses on site and the YO that don't in their way of dealing with it.

I start my yard at 5am, I have my own horses in and every precaution is taken to ensure there is a fresh supply of water in the morning for those in a rush. I fill dustbins with water on an afternoon when the pipes are working and then the liveries can help themselves and I just keep them refilled. I break everyones water first thing if they are frozen. My yard has been gritted daily and it is fully useable (other than the arena which is like concrete!!)

If your own horse is on site then there is not much additional work to be done to maintain a water supply for everyone to use. I can imagine for a busy farmer with other work to do it might end up low on their priorities (not that I agree that it should be!)
 

PucciNPoni

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Hmmm, daisybe, not sure of that theory.
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My current YO is very horsey minded and USED to have horses but does not any more and never has in the two years I've been there, and she and her husband are very good with the care overall of all the horses. It's a DIY yard but are very much interested in the welfare of the horses.

My last yard was a small yard, but the farmer/owner has a young daughter with very pricey show ponies, stabled a few hundred yards from the rest, with their own paddocks and their own everything. Yet he and his wife was very hands off when it came to the liveries, rules, the overall care. However, the fact remained that sometimes he'd shut off water etc and that it was often without notice.
 

alsxx

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I rent my own place, so only me thats responsible for the water, hence why I'm lugging it back and forth in the car!
 

_HP_

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I am DIY. I pay rent for a fenced off field with water so would expect farmer to sort out any problem regarding both.
 

ISHmad

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We are filling containers from our YO's house and lugging them up to the fields. We are more than happy with that arrangement. At the end of the day we consider it our responsibility that our horses have adequate feed and water. If we were ever unable to get there our YO would do it for us without hesitation but we prefer to do everything ourselves.
 

Patches

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I have my own horses on site and we are busy dairy farmers.
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With over 250 livestock on the premises, a milking parlour which requires a constant water supply, it's only natural that we endeavour to maintain running water for our own livestock.

As Peter Natt says, we have very large troughs in the field which would take the horses weeks to empty, should they not fill. We could easily move fields if the trough became empty in the field they're currently grazing in.

We do have an internal tap in the brick built stable block, two internal taps in the dairy (underground piping in there) and another tap in the parlour (again, underground piping). I would be worried we'd be experiencing a "The Day After Tomorrow" scenario if all those taps had frozen.
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For those on large yards, say 20 or more horses, I think I would expect to have to help the YO out for supplying water. It would, as has been pointed out, take the YO all day to carry water for those many horses when in reality it would take individual owners very little time to cart water for just their own horse. I guess the biggest issues are when the work isn't equally shared out between liveries as some will do more, others do less...as Pedantic's post points to.
 

Patches

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[ QUOTE ]
We are filling containers from our YO's house and lugging them up to the fields. We are more than happy with that arrangement. At the end of the day we consider it our responsibility that our horses have adequate feed and water. If we were ever unable to get there our YO would do it for us without hesitation but we prefer to do everything ourselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's interesting. Your YO is providing water and you're happy to collect it and carry it yourself. An amicable solution to the extreme weather conditions. I would assume this is where the YO's legal responsibility would end...water is provided from an unfrozen source.

I'd be interested, however, to see if the YO is legally responsible for actually filling the troughs in the field with water. I would have said yes they are technically, but most of us are reasonable enough to accept YO's only have one pairs of hands.

I have a model, helpful livery and unfrozen pipes, so this thread was only started out of interest in how the rest of you appear to be suffering more than we are with regards to being able to sort out the basic needs of your equines.

Thanks all.
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celiap

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[ QUOTE ]
This is an interesting one as under the new Animal Welfare Act it makes the horses welfare ultimately the yard owners resposibility. Therefore the yard owner is responsible for ensuring a supply of clean drinking water at all times.
Therefore it is the yard owners responsibility to ensure that the yard has a supply of clean running water at all times and whatever the weather conditions (hot or cold).

Our YO believes that DIY means they do not have to do or supply anything, including fencing or water troughs in fields. We also have to do any maintenance to stables ourselves. There are taps near yard but we have to thaw them (no lagging supplied) or do without. If we don't like it we can leave but YO knows that yards in this area are over subscribed and the YOs price ring.
 

Patches

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Have you ever had a water supply in the field, provided from the mains Celiap?

Some people are on yards where they don't have troughs full stop, whatever the time of year. Whilst I wouldn't like that myself, if that set up was there when you moved on (which I'm not sure if it was in your case) then that's what you're paying for I suppose.

As I say, I still wouldn't like it. Not for me.
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