Game: find a first horse that wouldn't overhorse a competent novice

TigerTail said:
Ok been wanting to ask this since this morning - do you think you overhorsed yourself because of the lack of suitable ones near to you Paula?
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Still keeping an eye out and haven't seen anything I'd view. This may well be because, as I keep saying, not a novice, having done a lot including drag hunting and ridden a couple of point to points in the past, and so know what to look out for in ads. So many dodgy dealers, so many people selling horses that they can't handle.

Anyhow I think we both had nasty accidents involving our horses recently. Doesn't that make us both overhorsed? ;)

Paula
 
Goldenstar said:
I can't get over someone expecting to find such a horse within thirty miles !! I consider a close search to be within a three hour one way drive.
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Couldn't agree more!
I think its probably possible to find a horse even with the longest list of requirements/criteria ever so long as you are A.) Willing to wait as long as it takes (I'm thinking 3 months min!) and B.) That you're prepared to travel anywhere in the country and finally C.) That you have a realistic budget.

Get those 3 things sorted and you can have any breed, colour and temperament you like!:p
 
I get your point Paula, I actually think it is a good point to make however I doubt anyone would restrict themselves to 30 miles that is no distance at all. Not to say we have to go miles, I looked at several before I bought mine (Not as you are describing but salient point) I am in Harrogate and travelled to York, Huddersfield, Leicester and actually ended up with one that was on my doorstep, friend of a friend and he is perfect for me. (8yo, 17hh Warmblood, flashy :D likes to squeal when asked to work properly)

I bought an exriding school horse, 16yo, Sec D that apart from not enjoying hacking alone was a good novice horse (I feel that a novice shouldn't really hack on their own unless they have to anyway). I got him for £1800. And was in Bradford (within 30miles). MY limit at that time was about 1hr/2hrs one way and I took ym friend with me and would not have done it without her. She supported me through my first years ownership (verbally/advice wise). Since then I have loaned (As someone suggested) and I shopped for this one on my own, took vids back to my trainer for a more detailed eye and actually bought one taht my trainer spotted for me that had been to her for schooling.

Interesting thread Paula. (I do feel like I should tell you that in my head you are Morag because of the g at the end of your name and it makes me smile :))
 
Anyone buying a horse should realise that it takes time to find the "right one" you could buy something quickly but chances are unless you are very lucky or have very easy standards it won't be "right". We travelled more than 30 miles looking (though not much more than an hour in any direction in the end) are more than novice riders and it still took us over a year to find our horse, and after all that she still didn't meet our criteria! But she is very very safe and sensible but forward whilst still being suitable for a nervous rider, she puts up with being shared and has the potential to be a decent RC allrounder.
 
Paulag said:
Still keeping an eye out and haven't seen anything I'd view. This may well be because, as I keep saying, not a novice, having done a lot including drag hunting and ridden a couple of point to points in the past, and so know what to look out for in ads. So many dodgy dealers, so many people selling horses that they can't handle.

Anyhow I think we both had nasty accidents involving our horses recently. Doesn't that make us both overhorsed? ;)

Paula
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You did all those things years ago though......

And no it most certainly doesnt, mine was literally a freak accident combined with my own laziness, yours was because you were on a 4 yr old letting it eat grass by a motorway on your own despite the fact you acknowledge you don't really know what you're doing with her and were still hacking out alone. Dont bother with the wink at the end of the sentence it doesnt cover the claws.
 
The thing is though, it doesn't actually matter if the buyer wants to compete low level or not. The fact is that if I had one with that temperament to sell, I wouldn't sell it as a happy hack for a few thousand. I'd get it competing low level, & sell for an awful lot more. Yes, if circumstances changed I might have to sell as a happy hack, but I wouldn't choose to.
I think its more complicated than not enough novice horses around. Firstly when I learnt to ride, few people had schools, so horses were rarely bad to hack, or with traffic etc. Which opened up the range for novices. Secondly, few people required anything bigger than a pony suitable for a novice. I'm not saying its a bad thing at all, but people didn't really come to riding & owning late in life as common as they do now. Plus, I think pre health & safety learning was different to today, so by adulthood people didn't need the perfect horse, they'd take on less than perfect & work to change it.
 
Believe me there were plenty of problem horses around years ago - I think I rode most of them. But the were also a lot more decent ones - probably because more were hacked out rather than ridden in the school the whole time.

Tiger - I think the difference is the way we view our accidents. Your accident was a freak unpreventable accident, I consider I made a mistake indulging a horse with a snatch of grass at the top of a hill a good way from the motorway that she'd walked calmly past. Happy to admit my mistake and think about how to prevent it happening again. Does leave me open to being accused of being overhorsed I guess.

And really, seriously is hacking out alone considered a dangerous activity these days? 7 year old children did it in the 1980's. No wonder dressage has become so popular.
 
TigerTail said:
Exactly! Just doesnt work like that Im afraid - or theyd be looking for a few years. TBH if the person needed a trainer to go with them to purchase a horse they shouldnt be purchasing - they should part loan until competent enough not to rely on others opinions. That would stop a lot of the over horsing!
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Sorry but utter nonsense, i'm looking at the moment, and my coach is going to be my other set of eyes if i find something, 2 sets of knowledgable eyes are better than 1.
As for the statement if you need a trainer with you, you shouldnt be purchasing ..... Tell that to my other 3 ive had for 20 yrs, oh and by the way im a qualified groom :D:D
 
Yes, problem horses did exist years ago, but like I say, most adults didn't require a novice first horse. And tbh, just cos a 7yr old can do something doesn't make it safe for everyone, in every different circumstance. Especially as imo a kid years ago, or one now taught in the same fashion, would give plenty of adults a run for their money in terms of ability.
 
TigerTail said:
Exactly! Just doesnt work like that Im afraid - or theyd be looking for a few years. TBH if the person needed a trainer to go with them to purchase a horse they shouldnt be purchasing - they should part loan until competent enough not to rely on others opinions. That would stop a lot of the over horsing!
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Uum..I like having someone with me when I buy clothes. What do you advise I should do? ;)
 
marydoll said:
Sorry but utter nonsense, i'm looking at the moment, and my coach is going to be my other set of eyes if i find something, 2 sets of knowledgable eyes are better than 1.
As for the statement if you need a trainer with you, you shouldnt be purchasing ..... Tell that to my other 3 ive had for 20 yrs, oh and by the way im a qualified groom :D:D
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Actually I'm getting quite worried about whether I should be driving my car on my own as my husband came with me when I tried it.
 
Paulag said:
Tiger - I think the difference is the way we view our accidents. Your accident was a freak unpreventable accident,

Exactly and yet you just implied I was over horsed.....

I consider I made a mistake indulging a horse with a snatch of grass at the top of a hill a good way from the motorway that she'd walked calmly past. Happy to admit my mistake and think about how to prevent it happening again. Does leave me open to being accused of being overhorsed I guess.
You ARE overhorsed and you know it!

And really, seriously is hacking out alone considered a dangerous activity these days? 7 year old children did it in the 1980's. No wonder dressage has become so popular.
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Hacking alone isnt if you and your horse are competent together enough to deal with any random happenings. Hacking isnt really taught as a skill now either.

Those commenting on my not buying a horse if you NEED a trainer with you - as I said earlier, NEEDING that 2nd opinion is different to liking a 2nd experienced one to pair with your own. If you are so dependent on taking a trainer with you, you wont go further than 30 miles to first look at a horse, which was the original criteria given, then IMO you should loan rather than buy.
 
Paulag said:
And really, seriously is hacking out alone considered a dangerous activity these days?
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Hacking out alone has always been one of the most dangerous things you can do on a horse - just how dangerous it is depends on the confidence and experience of both horse and rider, and the type and amount of hazards you are likely to encounter. Taking a horse away from the security of its herd will always have the tendency to make a horse more nervous, plus you have no-one on hand to help if something goes wrong (whether that is the horse misbehaving or just a freak accident). I must say that it is more dangerous these days due to the amount of traffic around.
 
Well at the end of the day, these horses that do exist, are in a 30 mile radius of someone. It might be you!

Really we don't need to be so snarky with one another. Accidents happen to the best of people you know. Show me a person that's never been Overhorsed and I'll show someone who doesn't have much experience or has ever gotten out of their comfort zone. I didn't own my first horse til I was 32. And thank dog for that. I definitely wouldn't be the rider I am or have the skill set I do without the thousands of horses that made me better. And oh yeah, you bet your ass I was Overhorsed now and again. How else was I ever gonna learn.

Terri
 
Tiger - I think the difference is the way we view our accidents. Your accident was a freak unpreventable accident,

Exactly and yet you just implied I was over horsed.....

I consider I made a mistake indulging a horse with a snatch of grass at the top of a hill a good way from the motorway that she'd walked calmly past. Happy to admit my mistake and think about how to prevent it happening again. Does leave me open to being accused of being overhorsed I guess.
You ARE overhorsed and you know it!
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Oh my god - you're yanking my chain and I didn't notice. I should have spotted it when you said you thought 10 weeks basic nutrition training was better than a four year clinical degree.

Sorry I didn't realise you were just joking around. Putting on a really good impression of arrogant person with a really strong external locus of control to wind me up.

Is there a nutritional supplement that might help me find my sense of humour - I was thinking maybe borate? It's only marginally toxic in high doses.

:p
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Show me a person that's never been Overhorsed and I'll show someone who doesn't have much experience or has ever gotten out of their comfort zone. I didn't own my first horse til I was 32. And thank dog for that. I definitely wouldn't be the rider I am or have the skill set I do without the thousands of horses that made me better. And oh yeah, you bet your ass I was Overhorsed now and again. How else was I ever gonna learn.
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I agree that that people need to be taken out of their comfort zone to be able to learn, but it is usually better for this to happen on horses that are not the sole riding horse that you own. Being stretched on a loan horse, or a friend's horse, or a riding school horse is not a problem, because if it is all too much then you can just say, well, I won't ride that horse again. But if you have bought a horse, and it is your only horse, if you go out of your comfort zone too much you can get to the stage where you are frightened of riding your horse at all, or start avoiding certain situations (hacking out alone, going to a show etc). Then you find yourself in a dilemma of whether to sell and get something more suitable, but on the other hand you have fallen in love with your horse and would be heartbroken to sell it, so do you just perservere. But if you keep perservering whilst you are really nervous, will you transfer this to the horse and negatively affect its behaviour? Or will you end up getting hurt?

Have known 100s of people who have got into this sort of situation, so I can see why it makes sense not to get seriously overhorsed when you are buying!
 
:) wasn't being sarky, honest. Just trying to inject some humour. I've been offered a loan horse who is ex trotter. Has to be ridden in blinkers apparently but is totally safe unless you pull the reins to stop or slow as she interprets this as go faster! It should be interesting ride. Too bad I'm injured as i can't wait to see how much more mischief I can do to my body. Perhaps I can come out for a ride with you Paula :D we can be over horsed together.
 
TrasaM said:
:) wasn't being sarky, honest. Just trying to inject some humour. I've been offered a loan horse who is ex trotter. Has to be ridden in blinkers apparently but is totally safe unless you pull the reins to stop or slow as she interprets this as go faster! It should be interesting ride. Too bad I'm injured as i can't wait to see how much more mischief I can do to my body. Perhaps I can come out for a ride with you Paula :D we can be over horsed together.
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:) Sounds like fun.
 
Paulag said:
Oh my god - you're yanking my chain and I didn't notice. I should have spotted it when you said you thought 10 weeks basic nutrition training was better than a four year clinical degree.

Sorry I didn't realise you were just joking around. Putting on a really good impression of arrogant person with a really strong external locus of control to wind me up.

Is there a nutritional supplement that might help me find my sense of humour - I was thinking maybe borate? It's only marginally toxic in high doses.

:p
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Wow you do talk some rubbish - typical twisting of everything ive said. Ah well - maybe next time Bree will be injured rather than you and you'l finally realise what Ive been trying to warn you of.
 
But seriously - above all the me and Tiger sniping at each other (you may guess it goes back a little further than this thread), I think he problem is here to stay, if nothing else because there are far more novice riders than horses suitable for them.

Next I should probably go onto the problem of livery yards - because of here is a limited supply of good horses it seems to be doubly true for livery yards. Should work out which there are more threads for.
 
TigerTail said:
Wow you do talk some rubbish - typical twisting of everything ive said. Ah well - maybe next time Bree will be injured rather than you and you'l finally realise what Ive been trying to warn you of.
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Not sure of the background here, don't really need to know but this seems to be crossing a line:( Suggest a chill pill or G&T is taken PDQ
 
TrasaM said:
Agree. Surely you wouldnt want to see this happen just to prove your point?
:(
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Hell no - I pity the poor mare, a recent vid showed a head nod and slight lameness that hadnt been picked up on. This is just such a classic eg of what the overhorsing yourself thread is all about, and then Paula seems to be implying that its the lack of good horses around which is why so many are overhorsed, when actually its sheer arrogance to go ahead and buy something entirely unsuitable. But then ive been called a bully and all sorts for having an opinion and sticking to it, for bothering to do the research and know what i talking about etc etc - the original dispute was she thinks being a human dietician makes her qualified to be a horse one, and yet she slapped shoes on a horse who had previously been barefoot comfortably because she went slightly pottery after she bought her....... its just so many yawning gaps in knowledge and yet a superior attitude with it - lethal combination, and one ive had to watch just recently that resulted in the death of the horse.
 
Yes I agree - I'm really quite bored with it now.

If anyone is concerned about Bree, she's in full professional schooling livery being ridden 6 days by a guy experienced in bringing on young horses and has been seen by a qualified vet and farrier since I had her. She is not in any danger. Someone from the national saddle centre is fitting her Albion saddle next week and she is getting a supplement based on a forage analysis from the yard. But yes I did cruelly fall off her onto my head. :D
 
TT, I don't think you are doing yourself any favours. You actually have made a few valid points, but then totally undermined them by getting too personal!
 
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