Gawsworth track livery.

[pistolpete]

Did anyone see Beth’s Facebook live tonight. Something very sad going on there today. Can’t work it out.

 

[nagblagger]

Just gone to read it. Agree it's a bit odd.

 

[Birker2020]

Yes I've just sent it to my friend. Very sad.
Social media trolls.

 

[MuddyMonster]

It's probably for the best they step back from social media if they feel the need too.

I've no idea what has gone on other than what GTL have posted but I think it is better to say too little on SM than too much, especially as a business and I'm not sure the last few posts are what I'd expect a business to be posting.

Wishing them well though.

 

[pistolpete]

It’s very sad. They have been such pioneers! It must be hard dealing with the socials and the keyboard warriors.

 

[Supertrooper]

None of my business at the end of the day but if it were I’d say for their mental wellbeing and for the benefits of the business it might be best to completely step away from social media (although I for one would be sad as I enjoy following them, think it’s an incredible set up) but perhaps it’s what is needed.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don’t know anything about this latest furore, and the Facebook page linked to has apparently been taken down, but the yard owner has not been backward about coming forward in the past .

The facilities have been gradually upgraded and do look fantastic now, but the on line histrionics are not something to be surprised at. I couldn’t be dealing with them.

I hope for the liveries’ sake that the yard is able to continue operating.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Whatever has gone on, that post alone would put me off using the place.
It's just not professional.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I don't know the lady and I do love what she does....but she does come across as a know it all on Facebook and is very entrenched in her views. Like posting photos of a disgusting farrier job (that farrier should be struck off !) and using that as "evidence " of how harmful shoes are.

 

[MuddyMonster]

It’s very sad. They have been such pioneers! It must be hard dealing with the socials and the keyboard warriors.

I guess it depends on whether they are facing true online trolls and bullies who intend to harass or people who just have different opinions and find that difficult to cope with.

The grey area IMHO comes when one (individual or business) has an active social media presence and have been outspoken on numerous issues on social media but then claims the toxic culture, bullying or harassment when things are posted they don't like or agree with.*

It's a fine line between marketing, posting what you believe in to raise standards for horse welfare and existing in an echo chamber that becomes a bit toxic in itself. *

*I'm not saying this is why has happened with GLT by the way.

Having been on commercial track systems in the past (not GLT though I must stress) they can be a fantastic environment but I've personally found they can be also be a bit fanatical and anyone questioning anything or doing things differently is branded anything from clueless owner 'brainwashed' by tradition to a toxic, trouble maker etc even if it is or has potential to become a horse welfare issue.

So I personally am always a bit wary to take everything posted at face value from businesses like these.

Of course, the ex-livery might very well have an agenda and GLT may geniunely be being hassled which is inexcusable. But if it is geniune harassment, I still think there are better ways to dealing with it than a public social post (police, solicitors or a less emotional response publically if you really need to say something) especially when someone appears to have tragically lost a horse in the middle of it all.

But like I said, I geniunely wish them well as they've certainly had a positive impact on lots of horses and hopefully will continue to do so.

 

[pistolpete]

I don’t know them personally but I’ve followed them for ages and I really like Beth. She’s very happy to share her opinions but always stresses it’s only that and genuinely is interested in the horses well being. Even made a separate track for some older horses. She’s kind and caring but she will not suffer fools. Unfortunately there are plenty of them!

 

[ihatework]

I guess it depends on whether they are facing true online trolls and bullies who intend to harass or people who just have different opinions and find that difficult to cope with.

The grey area IMHO comes when one (individual or business) has an active social media presence and have been outspoken on numerous issues on social media but then claims the toxic culture, bullying or harassment when things are posted they don't like or agree with.*

It's a fine line between marketing, posting what you believe in to raise standards for horse welfare and existing in an echo chamber that becomes a bit toxic in itself. *

*I'm not saying this is why has happened with GLT by the way.

Having been on commercial track systems in the past (not GLT though I must stress) they can be a fantastic environment but I've personally found they can be also be a bit fanatical and anyone questioning anything or doing things differently is branded anything from clueless owner 'brainwashed' by tradition to a toxic, trouble maker etc even if it is or has potential to become a horse welfare issue.

So I personally am always a bit wary to take everything posted at face value from businesses like these.

Of course, the ex-livery might very well have an agenda and GLT may geniunely be being hassled which is inexcusable. But if it is geniune harassment, I still think there are better ways to dealing with it than a public social post (police, solicitors or a less emotional response publically if you really need to say something) especially when someone appears to have tragically lost a horse in the middle of it all.

But like I said, I geniunely wish them well as they've certainly had a positive impact on lots of horses and hopefully will continue to do so.

Couldn’t have written it better myself.
I have no real knowledge of GTL myself, their set up looks super on the face of it.

 

[woods242]

I guess it depends on whether they are facing true online trolls and bullies who intend to harass or people who just have different opinions and find that difficult to cope with.

The grey area IMHO comes when one (individual or business) has an active social media presence and have been outspoken on numerous issues on social media but then claims the toxic culture, bullying or harassment when things are posted they don't like or agree with.*

It's a fine line between marketing, posting what you believe in to raise standards for horse welfare and existing in an echo chamber that becomes a bit toxic in itself. *

*I'm not saying this is why has happened with GLT by the way.

Having been on commercial track systems in the past (not GLT though I must stress) they can be a fantastic environment but I've personally found they can be also be a bit fanatical and anyone questioning anything or doing things differently is branded anything from clueless owner 'brainwashed' by tradition to a toxic, trouble maker etc even if it is or has potential to become a horse welfare issue.

So I personally am always a bit wary to take everything posted at face value from businesses like these.

Of course, the ex-livery might very well have an agenda and GLT may geniunely be being hassled which is inexcusable. But if it is geniune harassment, I still think there are better ways to dealing with it than a public social post (police, solicitors or a less emotional response publically if you really need to say something) especially when someone appears to have tragically lost a horse in the middle of it all.

But like I said, I geniunely wish them well as they've certainly had a positive impact on lots of horses and hopefully will continue to do so.

Agree with all of this, I have had a similar experience on commercial track livery with my old mare last year (definitely not GTL but anyone can feel free to PM me for details if it may be relevant to you) and let’s just say all that glitters is not gold. There were welfare issues with vet involvement and it is an extremely culty online community when it’s anything to do with barefoot/tracks. I used to feel the same way they did and I can see it now from the outside. Sometimes people are so wrapped up in their belief system that it feels like it’s part of them and anything that “threatens” what they believe to be right is seen as something that must be stamped out. It’s very black and white thinking and it’s sad because it takes away from the good ideas.

There is a huge culture of “they’re on a track and barefoot so their welfare is great and better than anyone else’s” regardless of individual horses and how they’re coping with those circumstances. I’m sure some places are wonderful, but like any type of yard, some fall short. The online pages are all very similar and preachy, huge vibe of shaming people if they don’t keep their horses on track. The irony of posting constantly about ethical horse keeping while horses are on your track footsore and hungry is not lost on me and makes it very difficult to keep quiet, but you don’t want to become a target of these people online. It has been absolute hell.

I want to say more but I don’t want to publicly as it’s already been enough of a nightmare, hence I’ve made this burner account as my usual one is too recognisable. But I am surprised by how many people have reached out to me with similar experiences on the grapevine if you will.

 

[Patterdale]

I really don’t like track systems full stop, I think that walking round the same lap endlessly on a surface must do horses heads in.
But that’s just my opinion, I know lots of people love them.

ETA not the right thread for this though sorry. Hope GTL lady is ok

 

[ycbm]

I really don’t like track systems full stop, I think that walking round the same lap endlessly on a surface must do horses heads in.
But that’s just my opinion, I know lots of people love them.

I think they are better than small fields, but I dislike Gawsworth's practice of feeding from trickle nets. On a grassless track system I feel the forage should be freely available. Their system would have left lower members of the herd waiting their turn to eat or making a choice between leaving the herd to go to another net or letting the herd leave them so they can eat. I also feel that grassless track liveries can lack sufficient lying down space for a herd which is big enough to have a hierarchy.

 

[woods242]

I think they are better than small fields, but I dislike Gawsworth's practice of feeding from trickle nets. On a grassless track system I feel the forage should be freely available. Their system would have left lower members of the herd waiting their turn to eat or making a choice between leaving the herd to go to another net or letting the herd leave them so they can eat. I also feel that grassless track liveries can lack sufficient lying down space for a herd which is big enough to have a hierarchy.

Yes my mare was older and got pushed out, she was chronically stressed because she was always hungry and the supposed ad-lib haynets would be empty by the morning. The yard owner tried to shame me for leaving and insisted my mare was very happy and I just “didn’t see her day to day like I do”, and I was cruel to move her away from the herd.

 

[toppedoff]

Sad to see this, I enjoy following their page. I found em via an interview on YouTube and it was quite interesting

 

[ihatework]

I really don’t like track systems full stop, I think that walking round the same lap endlessly on a surface must do horses heads in.
But that’s just my opinion, I know lots of people love them.

ETA not the right thread for this though sorry. Hope GTL lady is ok

I think they are probably very good for the chronically obese/metabolic type whereby (assuming you would kill them if turned out on decent grazing), then this is infinitely better than having them on small bare patches and excessively stabled.

For regular horses there is absolutely no reason to stop access to grass, its what they have evolved to eat FFS, but at the same time a mix and match approach is great as it promotes movement and also means you can reduce poaching and protect grassland in bad weather.

 

[Mrs B]

Ah! That explains why I had some bits on my business FB page that said 'content unavailable' ... I was on my phone looking for something someone had asked about, and was a bit puzzled earlier today.

GLT always very kindly championed one of my byHiggins products and let me share the posts.
I hope they're all ok

 

[abbijay]

I decided the histrionics surrounding GTL were a bit too much when they fell out with family at the last set up and posted the legal decision online! I understand things happen but I don't think family problems should have their dirty laundry aired on a business social media profile.
We are not far away and I have heard both sides of opinions on the place - whatever has gone on I do think exploding on social media is inappropriate for any business that wants to be considered reputable and professional.

 

[ameeyal]

Whatever has gone on, that post alone would put me off using the place.
It's just not professional.

You are very wrong there, I don’t know Beth but she puts her heart and sole into her business, and she wears her heart on her sleeve, she only wants what is best for the horses on her yard, and believe me it is the best. She gets so much grief from people, I think coming off social media is the best thing she can do.

 

[Jellymoon]

I think they are probably very good for the chronically obese/metabolic type whereby (assuming you would kill them if turned out on decent grazing), then this is infinitely better than having them on small bare patches and excessively stabled.

For regular horses there is absolutely no reason to stop access to grass, its what they have evolved to eat FFS, but at the same time a mix and match approach is great as it promotes movement and also means you can reduce poaching and protect grassland in bad weather.

Totally agree.

 

[Wishfilly]

You are very wrong there, I don’t know Beth but she puts her heart and sole into her business, and she wears her heart on her sleeve, she only wants what is best for the horses on her yard, and believe me it is the best. She gets so much grief from people, I think coming off social media is the best thing she can do.

For some people, having a stress free environment at the yard is very important though. I'm not sure I could cope with the drama.


On the subject, someone I sort of know has set up grassless track livery locally. It's great because there's nothing else like it in the area, but it absolutely wouldn't suit every horse, and the horses have to fit into her rigid system- which is fine, it's her yard, her decision, obviously! But on facebook she is very much "this is the right way to keep every horse" - she has only ever owned cob types which are (I assume) prone to weight gain. Nothing wrong with that at all, but I do think it's very much shaped her perspective.

 

[Bellaboo18]

You are very wrong there, I don’t know Beth but she puts her heart and sole into her business, and she wears her heart on her sleeve, she only wants what is best for the horses on her yard, and believe me it is the best. She gets so much grief from people, I think coming off social media is the best thing she can do.

I'm not wrong, I know it *would* put me off.

 

[Identityincrisis]

I think there is a huge difference between these track systems and that started by rockley which seems to meander through woodland, have different natural surfaces etc, that’s my idea of a track, not just and electric fence around the perimeter. And seeing those tracks in Winter, fetlock deep in mud, you CANNOT tell me that is healthy for feet! I love the idea of ‘free range’ horses, being able to access fields from a stable, leaving the door open so the horses can choose….. if wishes came true?!

 

[Backtoblack]

The GTL FB page has gone.

 

[Wishfilly]

I think there is a huge difference between these track systems and that started by rockley which seems to meander through woodland, have different natural surfaces etc, that’s my idea of a track, not just and electric fence around the perimeter. And seeing those tracks in Winter, fetlock deep in mud, you CANNOT tell me that is healthy for feet! I love the idea of ‘free range’ horses, being able to access fields from a stable, leaving the door open so the horses can choose….. if wishes came true?!

Yes, the ones I see which are hock deep in mud, no way would I choose that for a horse all winter, and if/when the mud freezes, they must be so dangerous. TBF to the one I know, I think they've done the surface really well so it doesn't get like that, but it is very much a track winding around a few fields, rather than anything more interesting.

I also think some track liveries seem to have a lot more horses on the ground than you'd have if you were following the 1.5 acres +1 per horse type rule- which may contribute to the ground not standing up. I suppose if you don't need the grass, space doesn't matter as much?

 

[Rosemary28]

I think there is a huge difference between these track systems and that started by rockley which seems to meander through woodland, have different natural surfaces etc, that’s my idea of a track, not just and electric fence around the perimeter. And seeing those tracks in Winter, fetlock deep in mud, you CANNOT tell me that is healthy for feet! I love the idea of ‘free range’ horses, being able to access fields from a stable, leaving the door open so the horses can choose….. if wishes came true?!

This is how I keep my pony (apart from when the grass is really good and then he needs restriction due to previous lami). Most of the time the gate is open and he can come in and out as he pleases. As he’s got older he chooses to be in more than he used to but I love that he has the choice.

We are actually about 5 minutes down the road from GTL and whilst I think a system with restricted grass would suit P, I don’t think it would would work for him due to their use of nets as ycbm pointed out. He’s such a bossy little sh*t, it’s bad enough with his one companion at home. We briefly considered them if we lost our grazing but rejected them mainly because the lane they’re on would be rubbish for driving (there are some bridleways but we wouldn’t get the carriage down it, and the lane itself is a bit of a rat run).

 

[Identityincrisis]

They also don’t seem to provide riding facilities, so I’m not sure if these horses are ridden. I saw today on another track fb page where they were complaining about owners removing horses because they needed/wanted riding facilities. Being brutally honest, if I couldn’t ride, I wouldn’t have a horse, so yes riding facilities are also important. An owner shouldn’t be made to feel guilty about wanting that, if they could provide both, perfect!

 

[Wishfilly]

They also don’t seem to provide riding facilities, so I’m not sure if these horses are ridden. I saw today on another track fb page where they were complaining about owners removing horses because they needed/wanted riding facilities. Being brutally honest, if I couldn’t ride, I wouldn’t have a horse, so yes riding facilities are also important. An owner shouldn’t be made to feel guilty about wanting that, if they could provide both, perfect!

I do think that's an odd thing to complain about owners removing horses for?

I think of track livery as essentially grass livery, though, so I can understand not offering brilliant facilities, although I think a lot of people would want nice hacking if possible. But obviously people may move on from that and want a school etc.

I also think it can be a diplomatic excuse to move yards, if the owner is the sort to bitch about people leaving on facebook... Again, it's not really professional behaviour that would encourage me to move to a yard.