General musings on horse 'misbehaviour'

[Ambers Echo]

Ive seen a lot of posts recently on FB about allegedly missold horses: horses who were fine on viewing and then started napping, spooking, spinning etc once at their new homes.

It got me thinking about how much of how a horse behaves is rider related? I had a pony once who I backed and evented unaff for 2 seasons. She was an angel. She was just so lovely and straightforward. But her new owners sold her on after 6 months as 'unrideable'. Goodness knows what had happened in those 6 months but she had been fine with me. Was she just hitting the Kevins later on and I would also have run into problems? Or was it something to do with the rider/environment?? I sold her in good faith as a straight forward pony and was mortified when they rang me to explain that it had gone wrong.

Then there is Max. Max presented plenty of challenges to Izzy and I knew she was not riding him well but I still thought he brought a degree of quirkiness to the party. Eg he would spook if a rosette was pinned to him and would get very excited in a lap of honour. Well on Sunday Katie was lining up for her rosette and she did not bat an eyelid about it being pinned to his bridle and neither did he. Then they had a fab, controlled lap of honour with no issues at all. So was it really ALL rider related all along?

I'm not blaming buyers who feel cheated when they find themselves with a horse they can't manage. It must be incredibly difficult to buy a 'straightforward' horse' only to get one you are finding difficult. But maybe more buyers should consider that they might be the problem before they yell 'missold'?

And when selling how do you know if you have:

1) a horse who will look after any rider (Jenny!)
2) a horse who will behave perfectly well with a good rider but not for any rider (Max??)
3) a horse who will challenge any rider.

Just wondering!

 

[Cortez]

In my experience, the rider is a major factor in 90% of horses. Riders don't like to be told this, of course.....

 

[Fiona]

Really good points AE.....

My son's welsh sec A will play him up occasionally, but never put a foot wrong for me, but as she did a year in her previous owner's riding school I mostly blame that for 'teaching' her that some riders can be messed with and others can't... He isn't nervous, but doesn't respond as quickly as a more experienced rider would, hopefully that will improve in time.

However I took a nervous friend out on hubby's elderly ID eventer the other day, and she stopped twice at a 60cm log with friend, as soon as I got on she jumped straight over. I was totally embarrassed She was obviously responding to the rider's nervousness...

Fiona

 

[paddi22]

From what I've seen on yards i've been on - 90% of misbehaving horses could be sent to a different owner and never have an issue again. Some rider/horse/routine/feed routines just don't work at all. And people buy horses nowadays expecting them to be robots.

 

[DabDab]

Good question...And I think pretty hard to answer 😉

Because I happen to have had involvement with a fair amount of youngsters and 'problem' horses I've got fairly good at spotting horses that are genuinely anybody's ride in comparison to horses that are very straightforward but with the right rider/management. I would say of my two current horses, the young mare could easily be upset by the wrong rider or management and I could easily see her behaviour spiralling in the wrong situation. Whereas my gelding is probably anybody's ride in terms of hacking, but as a competition prospect would be quite hard to place.

There are definitely certain people though who seem to be able to bring out the worst in a lot of horses. I've seen a fair few horses who I know to be absolutely genuine (a couple sold for a lot of money because they were so easy) go on to become stressy, rearing, napping nightmares. And I do wonder about those few, because they were not horses I would ever have expected to become difficult.

 

[tallyho!]

Fair points. I’ve had my fair share of horses that were “a handful” or “strong” that I’ve got on ok with. Equally I’ve got on horses and thought “how the heck does one ride this?!” ...

I always think “buyer beware” and I guess that should work both ways actually based on what you’re saying. I definitely agree that the horse and rider combo should be considered.

Also, consider the horse too... happy in the home he’s at let’s say, one day someone comes and trundles you off somewhere new. New people, new rider, new smells, new food, new companions.... poor things. I do feel for them. All too often treated like machines rather than the sentient things they actually are.

 

[Alibear]

Another point as you know is , is the horse still OK or is there a niggly physical issues that's causing the problem.
I tend to think it's always either a rider or physical but telling the difference between the two is hard.
As with a stronger rider a horse may put up with a niggly physical issue that it would show with a less strong rider.
Its also easy to see when a routine doesn't suit but coming up with one that does can often be a long and challenging process.
Its hard to tell is my current opinion.

 

[nikkimariet]

A lot of riders create problems. In fact, many riders are better at creating problems than solving them.

IE buys nice pro broken youngster v straight forward, fast forward a few months and it's rearing and napping and has contact issues

It's always interesting if riders have the same issues with different horses too.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think a lot of issues are rider related but some horses are very honest so will behave more or less the same whoever rides them, and I think some horse rider combinations just don't work I think a lot of horses like to be ridden a certain way, and some riders can or will rub them up the wrong way, I have 2 Arabs both are schooled well but put a novice on them and they often won't even manage a trot, they don't do anything horrible but refuse to move, I think it's them just knowing they can get away with so they push the boundaries, they will often do it with a new rider but once they realise they won't get away with it they are fine.

 

[Quadro]

If you see someone really terrible winning, and the horse comes up for sale buy it! Unfortunately a lot of amateurs buy horses who have only ever been ridden by pros, and don't "understand" if the aid is not applied in a very precise way.

 

[JFTDWS]

Horses aren't stupid - they soon work out if they can avoid over-exerting themselves (physically or mentally) by pushing the boundaries. I definitely see cases of people crying "missold" which I think are far from clear cut, and almost certainly reflect on their current home. Throw in management issues, tack changes and all the rest, and it's hardly surprising these sorts of circumstances occur.

It's always interesting if riders have the same issues with different horses too.

Well quite, exactly.

 

[splashgirl45]

years ago there was a chap at my yard , ......he was having a lesson on one of his horses and said to the trainer, he is really strong on the right rein, thats really odd because my other horse is as well. the trainer,who is a friend of mine waited for the penny to drop...it didnt so she had to gently explain to him that it may be the rider that had caused the problem....the penny then dropped!!!!!!!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I agree that many problems are caused by rider error, there is a local RC member who buys a new horse almost every two years because they won't jump for her. It's so odd because they jumped well when she bought them!

However I do think that sometimes horses (and maybe the riders) react to the yard they are on. Many years ago we bought an Appaloosa mare, who was well-mannered at the viewing and for the first 24 hours she was at the livery yard we put her on. Then she became a complete nightmare to ride/handle and shoe. For various reasons, including the fact that she had got onto the road, through some poor fencing we moved her to a new yard. On paper the yards were pretty similar, except that the 2nd had individual boxes and the first was an American barn system but she had been living out, it was August, both yards had a resident stallion. Her behaviour improved immediately at the 2nd yard, the rider hadn't changed.

I think as well, that some riders and horses just get on well and some don't 'gel', even though perhaps you wouldn't think that they would be a good combination, just like we get on with some colleagues and not others,

 

[ycbm]

A lot of riders create problems. In fact, many riders are better at creating problems than solving them.

IE buys nice pro broken youngster v straight forward, fast forward a few months and it's rearing and napping and has contact issues

It's always interesting if riders have the same issues with different horses too.

So true. There used to be a local rider whose horses all became bad in traffic, one after another after another.. And I had a devil of a job convincing a friend of mine that my mare wasn't ungenuine, it's me who teaches horses to stop when the show jumps get too big.

If there's history it's a bit easier. The trouble is telling the difference between rider problems and a genuine horse who is trying to work through pain and a really skilled rider who can convince a horse to work through pain. I just wish they could talk.

I agree with Cortez and others that 90% is the rider, but which 90%?

 

[ycbm]

I agree that many problems are caused by rider error, there is a local RC member who buys a new horse almost every two years because they won't jump for her. It's so odd because they jumped well when she bought them!

However I do think that sometimes horses (and maybe the riders) react to the yard they are on. Many years ago we bought an Appaloosa mare, who was well-mannered at the viewing and for the first 24 hours she was at the livery yard we put her on. Then she became a complete nightmare to ride/handle and shoe. For various reasons, including the fact that she had got onto the road, through some poor fencing we moved her to a new yard. On paper the yards were pretty similar, except that the 2nd had individual boxes and the first was an American barn system but she had been living out, it was August, both yards had a resident stallion. Her behaviour improved immediately at the 2nd yard, the rider hadn't changed.

I think as well, that some riders and horses just get on well and some don't 'gel', even though perhaps you wouldn't think that they would be a good combination, just like we get on with some colleagues and not others,

Completely agree with this.

 

[catkin]

I wonder if we give horses enough time to settle in a new place before labelling them. I've had two old ponies as companions, both only became truly settled after 2 years. Whether it's right or not we've always wondered if this is the case with quite a few ponies- 2 years with a child, then outgrown and moved on so the old wise ones don't 'invest' emotionally in a new home until after that time.
A very dear non-horsey friend thinks it's actually similar for people - one has to go through all the seasons in a place at least once before feeling at home

 

[oldie48]

I can only speak for myself but the better I ride the better behaved my horse is. I struggled with Mr B out hacking for quite a long time, he'd be fine until we were on the home run, then he'd start to play up, throw his head around, bounce and generally be a bit of a prat. He hasn't changed but my riding has and now I am able to nip the behaviour in the bud before it becomes an issue. In the wrong hands, (and I'm no great riderbut I don't automatically blame the horse) I think he could have become pretty silly. Schooling he's not the most submissive horse (hate that expression but I'm sure you know what I mean) again I struggled in the early days because I wasn't clear or confident enough and let the boundaries slip, he wasn't a naughty horse as such but he was very happy to take advantage of lousy riding. I am willing to accept that if we are having a training issue, 90% of the time it's me that needs to improve and just feel lucky that when I do make mistakes I'm given immediate feedback and he does give me the chance to learn how to do it better.

 

[melbournesunrise]

I've seen a lot of horses and a lot of riders riding them - I'm definitely no pro, but I would hands down say it is rider-caused most of the time. And as someone else said, if it isn't rider caused, then pain is the most likely problem.

The most pronounced change I'm aware of is my own horse. Before I bought him, he was owned by someone else for 5 years who loaned him out to a variety of different people as well as riding him themselves. Of all the riders, only one of them really got on well with him. His owner was scared to ride him (big horse + small, nervous rider)... When I bought him, he ran around like a giraffe in the school, and spooked sideways or spun on pretty much every hack he went on. Over a year on, and he hardly ever spooks, and is developing a much stronger frame and self-carriage, with the right work.

A lot of it, I put down to the fact that he is now a one-person horse, instead of a horse who could be ridden by 3 or 4 different people at any time. The rest of it, I put down to the fact that I don't put up with a lot of the silliness that he did for his previous owner (plus a saddle that actually fits and some chiro work!)

 

[Mule]

Mine was extremely nappy when I got him. His previous owner did tell me this.

As I got more experienced at riding he improved. The funniest thing for me is now when he marches backwards and I just laugh at him, he stops, thinks about it and reluctantly walks forward again. 😂

 

[southerncomfort]

We bought a little cob that had supposedly been an angel in his previous home.

I won't lie, he's been an absolute sod at times since he's been here! Ridden in the school he is mostly fab except when he decides to argue about everything. Hacking he's a bit of a nightmare to be honest. We've had bucking and squealing in the road, trying to bog off home...you name it, he's done it!

I don't think he's been misold but I do think we have a few different things going on that have created the perfect storm. Firstly, I think he found the move VERY unsettling. The first couple of weeks he was very aloof and uncommunicative before his behaviour began to deteriorate. Secondly, he is 7 and his behaviour is very much that of a mardy teenager. I swear if he could stomp up some some stairs and slam his bedroom door he absolutely would! Thirdly, I believe that his behaviour in his previous home appeared angelic because they micromanaged every situation and mollycoddled him so that he was never challenged and never had to take responsibility for himself.

For instance, when hacking he would always be in a group and always in the middle so that he felt completely safe and never had to be aware of his surroundings. He just mooched along nose to tail with the others, probably half asleep.

We are trying to teach him a) that we won't let anything bad happen to him but that he needs to take some responsibility for himself, and b) self control, by which I mean that when the going gets tough running away is not the answer! He needs to be able to give a bit of thought to situations and control his emotions.

We are giving him until the end of next Spring. Ultimately, we may not be the right home for him simply because we are very rural and he find some of the things here difficult to deal with (i.e cows, sheep, tractors!). I want to give him every chance though because I have a sneaking suspicion that underneath it all is a cracking little pony. And to be fair to my daughter, she is having lessons with an amazing instructor as she is determined to become a good enough rider for him.

 

[Bernster]

Barring soundness/health issues, I do think there is a fair degree of 'missold' which is actually just a new or wrong combination of horse and rider. Owners/riders can only sell based on their experience and I do think horses are blamed sometimes unfairly when it's more a case of the wrong set up (rider, feed, turnout, exercise...whatever).

 

[milliepops]

Barring soundness/health issues, I do think there is a fair degree of 'missold' which is actually just a new or wrong combination of horse and rider. Owners/riders can only sell based on their experience and I do think horses are blamed sometimes unfairly when it's more a case of the wrong set up (rider, feed, turnout, exercise...whatever).

yup

I own one that was "missold" to her previous owner. In fairness, I do think they were led up the garden path a bit, they thought they were buying something they could use as a family pony, and what they got was completely unsuitable. But then the problem was compounded by management issues, she was kept alone which made her really stressed, and they probably needed more expert help than they realised.

I would be very, very careful about where she went now, if I was to sell her. She's a quirky needy character now and could easily unravel again. Any sensitive person could ride her but not many would want to keep her because she's quite difficult to keep on an even keel

Have seen a couple of younger horses go off the rails because the owners want them to love them, and are not prepared to put boundaries in place etc. It's quite easy to ruin a horse that way, even if you think you're being kind.

 

[maya2008]

Everything I've ever had has taken the p out of my husband - even the Shetland! All of them have behaved for me. My best behaved mare (who is so perfect it's unreal!) is dangerous in the hands of a novice. She gets scared and panics. With a confident, balanced rider, she's a dream. Always well behaved, polite, helpful, doesn't spook and tries her very best at all times. My New Forest mare will also look after a beginner no problem, but if you know what you're doing, you're on your own - she does a good dirty stop in front of a jump, and a great line of bucks!

 

[maya2008]

2 years with a child, then outgrown and moved on so the old wise ones don't 'invest' emotionally in a new home until after that time.

Our Shetland cross panics if we have visitors with children and we let the children have a go. Actually, proper, panics. She lets the children have a safe ride, and then is very nervy and just awful if one of mine get on. She's been here for 2 years now, and will let a regular visitor have a quick sit because they obviously go home again. My others have all been with me since 3/4 years old. Professionals remark on how settled, happy and helpful they are when being handled. I'm sure it's because they get to keep their friends!

 

[SEL]

I wonder if we give horses enough time to settle in a new place before labelling them. I've had two old ponies as companions, both only became truly settled after 2 years. Whether it's right or not we've always wondered if this is the case with quite a few ponies- 2 years with a child, then outgrown and moved on so the old wise ones don't 'invest' emotionally in a new home until after that time.
A very dear non-horsey friend thinks it's actually similar for people - one has to go through all the seasons in a place at least once before feeling at home

I moved my two to a new yard about 6 weeks ago and they still aren't really that settled. The big boy was a little sod for the farrier this morning, but I think its just a case of him not 100% knowing his routine and the yard yet. He broke the bailing twine and bogged off last week - as far as one of the other barns with stables in it where he had a good nose around. Our previous yard was tiny and this is much bigger - but it has grass and he's very happy when he's in his field and can eat!

He's had a bit of a 'passed around' background so its understandable really.

The Appy is very human orientated and doesn't seem to stress as much - but when she does its a proper meltdown.

 

[Vodkagirly]

Best thing I did when I bought my current horse was budget for 2 lessons a week for first 2 months.
Then I carried on with weekly lessons. He was with a pro rider and sold with full disclosure that he was cheeky. The lessons helped me get to grips with him and gave me the confidence that I was doing the right thing.
He is a saint now but that was down to hard work and good instruction.

 

[Translationsneeded]

All of my horses have been ‘weak’ on the right rein. Took a good instructor to make me think about that
I also always make my horses slow...My friend always has the opposite issue!

 

[rachk89]

If they don't have soundness issues, yeah it's generally the rider.

My horse, now that he is no longer in pain, can still be a problem for me to ride, but it's nowhere near as much as before. Like recently, he was a pain on a hack as he got way over excited and wanted to gallop, but he's not allowed to so he had a strop, and he's quite intimidating when he's having a strop. I doubt he'd have kept it up if he'd had a more confident rider on him.

If I act confident on him and make him listen, he's fine. But if I can't make him believe I'm confident, he'll do what he wants, spook at stuff etc.

I'm stuck with him though, so just got to work on my confidence.