General question on weight limits

[CanteringCarrot]

It's been a long time since I've been in America, so I can't recall how many horses I saw carrying too much weight. I do see it a lot here in Germany though. For whatever reason, I guess the breeding style, Quarter Horses and Thoroughbreds are smaller here, and finer. I think many riders feel safer on a smaller horse, and some of these riders happen to be big.

There was a group of ladies at my last yard that all had small QH's or Arabs and they were all far too heavy for them. I didn't get what the attraction was. Like, I don't want to put myself on a horse I'm too heavy for and look ridiculous! Never mind the poor animals welfare. I even had a guilt trip earlier this year when riding a Connemara pony at the yard to exercise her while lessons were cancelled due to COVID. YO/trainer and pony owner all assured me I was fine, and I did look fine, and I was fine, but still ?

I saw a very tall man riding an Icelandic the other day at a competition, his feet were hardly a foot from ground. Why?!

I think it's a good idea for riding schools to be conscious of the weight of the riders. If one asked me to weigh in upon arrival, I'd have no issue! I just can't foresee that going over well in the US.

 

[abbijay]

I am on a lot of draft horse pages on fb with a lot of American posters as I have a clydesdale and I once posted a picture of my gelding and asked "what weight can he safely carry?"
He was a very fit horse (low level evented, 3-4hr hacks more weeks than not, well schooled) and weighed in around 800kg. Most people in the UK suggested he would carry up to 18st but not much more, I had a number of Americans post that "he'd have no trouble carrying 350lbs" (25st to us brits).
I had previously asked him to carry me and hubby together so we could get a picture; we were both young, fit and skinny so our combined weight was 20st or just under. The poor boy "huffed" and had to completely change his stance to take our weight. And that was just for a 2 minute photo op not being asked to actually do anything!
There is a disconnect over here between "fat shaming" and animal welfare which makes it a very difficult topic to discuss but I do fear in the States horses still have a disposable commodity aspect to them and you can't tell a potential paying customer that they're too fat!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’ve dabbled in western riding in England and overly large riders on small quarter horses was indeed a thing.

 

[simsy6]

It's been a long time since I've been in America, so I can't recall how many horses I saw carrying too much weight. I do see it a lot here in Germany though. For whatever reason, I guess the breeding style, Quarter Horses and Thoroughbreds are smaller here, and finer. I think many riders feel safer on a smaller horse, and some of these riders happen to be big.

There was a group of ladies at my last yard that all had small QH's or Arabs and they were all far too heavy for them. I didn't get what the attraction was. Like, I don't want to put myself on a horse I'm too heavy for and look ridiculous! Never mind the poor animals welfare. I even had a guilt trip earlier this year when riding a Connemara pony at the yard to exercise her while lessons were cancelled due to COVID. YO/trainer and pony owner all assured me I was fine, and I did look fine, and I was fine, but still ?

I saw a very tall man riding an Icelandic the other day at a competition, his feet were hardly a foot from ground. Why?!

I think it's a good idea for riding schools to be conscious of the weight of the riders. If one asked me to weigh in upon arrival, I'd have no issue! I just can't foresee that going over well in the US.

I have also ridden in Germany (but just at one riding school for a week) and also noted it wasn't something that came up. Crazy about the icelandic pony that's just not good! I very much prefer bigger horses myself, even when I was slimmer. Back in the US, ppl used to western riding (which were most of the people in the area I grew up in) would bulk at big horses and say they weren't confident enough to ride them, which is just a western riding culture issue.

I didn't have an issue being weighed, I was just pretty shocked just because I'm foreign though! I agree, it wouldn't go over well -- I think weight is a charged issue to begin with and the US is about 10 years behind in many areas of social growth in general lol, so perhaps in a decade there will be weight limits at riding schools. Overall, I think it's worth causing mental discomfort about weight rather than actual physical discomfort of horses pained by riders too heavy for them.

 

[simsy6]

I am on a lot of draft horse pages on fb with a lot of American posters as I have a clydesdale and I once posted a picture of my gelding and asked "what weight can he safely carry?"
He was a very fit horse (low level evented, 3-4hr hacks more weeks than not, well schooled) and weighed in around 800kg. Most people in the UK suggested he would carry up to 18st but not much more, I had a number of Americans post that "he'd have no trouble carrying 350lbs" (25st to us brits).
I had previously asked him to carry me and hubby together so we could get a picture; we were both young, fit and skinny so our combined weight was 20st or just under. The poor boy "huffed" and had to completely change his stance to take our weight. And that was just for a 2 minute photo op not being asked to actually do anything!
There is a disconnect over here between "fat shaming" and animal welfare which makes it a very difficult topic to discuss but I do fear in the States horses still have a disposable commodity aspect to them and you can't tell a potential paying customer that they're too fat!

Wow, that is crazy!! I would never think a horse could carry someone that heavy, even a draft. Perhaps they could pull that weight, but that's very different to carrying. Thanks for your insight on this and how horses are viewed in the US (which is sad, but I also think unfortunately true in a number of disciplines ).

 

[oldie48]

I am on a fb site that has a lot of riders from the US. I know it happens here too but what has shocked me is that not only are the riders too heavy for the horse, the saddle is sometimes too long for the horse as well as it has to accommodate a rather large posterior.

 

[teapot]

There's also the whole feel, finesse, and fitness argument but I wont go there...

 

[scruffyponies]

It's very sad, but these days I ask how big someone is before they are introduced to me as a potential rider... even primary age children.

We do pony rides at the local fete every year, and I have learned just to be blunt. "You're too big". No scales, no limits, just my entirely subjective assessment. One day, I expect a parent will object, and I will get into trouble for saying what I really think.

 

[TPO]

I’ve dabbled in western riding in England and overly large riders on small quarter horses was indeed a thing.

Not just QH, anything with a western saddle...

Said saddle rarely fits and is generally a cheap synthetic (trees nit meant for heavy riders) that buckles under heavy weight.

I understand the wider panels of a western saddle dispersing the weight but if you are too heavy you are still too heavy in a western saddle.

 

[Orangehorse]

Thanks Simsy6.
Off to do a bit of research on quarter horses!! They do seem to be tough little equines. Wonder why we dont hear about them much in the uk?

There are quarter horses in the UK and very active Western Riding associations, but agree that they are not well known outside their breed society or Western groups. I've a friend who has a part quarter horse that has done mainly endurance.

 

[Orangehorse]

Quarter horses are not that well knownin the UK as horses from the USA are expensive to import and there are plenty of British breed available, particularly native pony breeds that some other countries don't have, or maybe have one pony breed. There are a very large TB racing industry so there are always plenty of TBs around that make good eventers or hunters and there are numerous cross breeds.

The Brits in general are more into jumping and galloping, unless it is dressage when they can buy a purpose bred dressage horse from Germany, Denmark, etc. so wouldn't see the Quarter Horse as having the attributes to make a dressage horse or a jumping horse. Not forgetting the driving breeds from the Continent too.

Somewhere in the UK you could probably find many, many foreign breeds, but not in high numbers. So there are Icelandic, Fjord, Morgans, Saddlebred, Friesans who all have their enthusiasts.

 

[cally23]

I recently joined an Fb Horsey page not realising that it was mostly based in the US. A person had posted that she was so happy as she had lost weight from 24 stone to 20 stone and showed a photo of herself sat on her horse. I could not believe all the replies of well done and you both look great! etc etc Of course you are not allowed to place a reply kindly advising that maybe it would be better to walk the horse for at lest another 8 stone? So 20 stone seems acceptable!
I have gained 18lb taking me to 14stone. I stopped riding my mare and will not ride again unless I can find the discipline to lose the weight. It is tough going but if I am to ride again the weight has to come off first,

 

[P.forpony]

Ultimately I think two things are at play here.

First is what is culturally acceptable in terms of weight. As a sweeping generalisation I think people tend to be bigger in the US than the UK. So the bracket for ‘acceptable’ weight is bigger.
Secondly the toss up between animal welfare and not hurting someone’s feelings/causing offence. I think in the UK we are happier to prioritise horses over people.

I used to live in Alberta and regularly popped down to Montana ?
The trail ranch I was working at did not have a weight limit. I instigated one of 250lb after several rides that I guided left me feeling dreadful. Watching the horses I cared for struggling to carry people is not something I could tolerate.

I wanted 200lb but unfortunately even the 250 limit meant we lost a lot of business.
Education is also a massive contributor, the overwhelming majority of our heavier riders had no idea their weight could have a negative impact on the horse. Many were shocked and horrified when they asked for the little one (a saint of a barely 14hh dainty little Morgan mare) and I gently explained why not.

 

[simsy6]

Ultimately I think two things are at play here.

First is what is culturally acceptable in terms of weight. As a sweeping generalisation I think people tend to be bigger in the US than the UK. So the bracket for ‘acceptable’ weight is bigger.
Secondly the toss up between animal welfare and not hurting someone’s feelings/causing offence. I think in the UK we are happier to prioritise horses over people.

I used to live in Alberta and regularly popped down to Montana ?
The trail ranch I was working at did not have a weight limit. I instigated one of 250lb after several rides that I guided left me feeling dreadful. Watching the horses I cared for struggling to carry people is not something I could tolerate.

I wanted 200lb but unfortunately even the 250 limit meant we lost a lot of business.
Education is also a massive contributor, the overwhelming majority of our heavier riders had no idea their weight could have a negative impact on the horse. Many were shocked and horrified when they asked for the little one (a saint of a barely 14hh dainty little Morgan mare) and I gently explained why not.

I agree about the people being bigger in general, it's unfortunate, but true. Ah, lovely to hear that you've been to Montana! I've been to Alberta as well -- Spruce Meadows is an absolute dream.

I do think in general in the US, non-horsey people especially, will hear "horse" and think they can carry anything because they're a horse (if that makes sense). But even me, someone's who has ridden basically my whole life, clearly hadn't been educated by any horsey people either about weight limits for horses, so clearly there needs to be more education on it in general. Everyone's posts on here have been really helpful in understanding that!

 

[Goldenstar]

You know here’s another thought, just because full sized men rode those smaller horses in the past does not mean that it’s ok in today’s welfare standards .

 

[simsy6]

I recently joined an Fb Horsey page not realising that it was mostly based in the US. A person had posted that she was so happy as she had lost weight from 24 stone to 20 stone and showed a photo of herself sat on her horse. I could not believe all the replies of well done and you both look great! etc etc Of course you are not allowed to place a reply kindly advising that maybe it would be better to walk the horse for at lest another 8 stone? So 20 stone seems acceptable!
I have gained 18lb taking me to 14stone. I stopped riding my mare and will not ride again unless I can find the discipline to lose the weight. It is tough going but if I am to ride again the weight has to come off first,

While it's definitely great that she lost that much weight, I can see why that would still not be great for riding Again, clearly a lack of education about the whole subject in the US!

Good luck with losing weight yourself, I also want to lose some weight because as I mentioned in the OP I'm pretty much at the limit for my riding school. I gained weight over lockdown, which is so frustrating. I used to go to the gym/fitness classes, walked a lot of my commute and then it just all disappeared. Now I need to figure out a different routine I can get myself into.

 

[P.forpony]

Also a quick point that’s it’s not always about pure weight.

It’s a lot more to do with the appropriate horse/rider combination. I’m 9st 7lb/60kg/133lb however you like to measure!

So I’m not going to trouble a big solid horse, but I’d absolutely flatten a 12.2 riding pony.
I currently ride a 14h connie and wouldn’t want to be any bigger on her.

I think slim trim adults too big for small ponies is no better than large people too big for large horses.

 

[Goldenstar]

Also a quick point that’s it’s not always about pure weight.

It’s a lot more to do with the appropriate horse/rider combination. I’m 9st 7lb/60kg/133lb however you like to measure!

So I’m not going to trouble a big solid horse, but I’d absolutely flatten a 12.2 riding pony.
I currently ride a 14h connie and wouldn’t want to be any bigger on her.

I think slim trim adults too big for small ponies is no better than large people too big for large horses.

of course it is there’s no difference at all .

 

[P.forpony]

of course it is there’s no difference at all .

Unfortunately I actually see just as much, if not more of this though.

The general attitude I’ve come across on several groups seems to be that if the rider is not overweight they are exempt from such considerations.

 

[emilylou]

I've worked at a number of riding schools in the US (all East Coast) and have to say I think the welfare standards are significantly lower, mainly through ignorance but I was shocked by the general standard of riding and teaching and what was considered normal.

Some of the things I experienced..

No weight limits were imposed and I think generally, horses were asked to carry riders that are far too heavy.
Lots of horses were lame, yet no problem was seen or investigation had, it was considered normal for horses to be on large amounts of medication- sedation, bute and others.
Part of the feed routine was to put all the pills the horse has in a coffee grinder and add it to the feed!!
Laminitis was common due to increased hard feed and low forage diets most horses were on. Lots of cases of pedal bone rotation or 'founder' as they called it. But horses were medicated through it and continued to be worked.
Riders were allowed to choose the saddle they rode in, some riders had 'their own' saddle which they bought to lessons. Saddles were fitted to the rider and the horse could be ridden in anything from 16-18'' saddle dependant on which rider they had!
No one seemed to hack, horses were only ever ridden in the arena.
General knowledge was just poorer overall.

I dont think any of it was done out of poor intent, just lack of understanding. For all the stick the BHS gets here I am extremely grateful for it and the overall basic standards of management it creates, even if the exams are poorly executed and outdated. The US could really do with something similar.

 

[simsy6]

I've worked at a number of riding schools in the US (all East Coast) and have to say I think the welfare standards are significantly lower, mainly through ignorance but I was shocked by the general standard of riding and teaching and what was considered normal.

Some of the things I experienced..

No weight limits were imposed and I think generally, horses were asked to carry riders that are far too heavy.
Lots of horses were lame, yet no problem was seen or investigation had, it was considered normal for horses to be on large amounts of medication- sedation, bute and others.
Part of the feed routine was to put all the pills the horse has in a coffee grinder and add it to the feed!!
Laminitis was common due to increased hard feed and low forage diets most horses were on. Lots of cases of pedal bone rotation or 'founder' as they called it. But horses were medicated through it and continued to be worked.
Riders were allowed to choose the saddle they rode in, some riders had 'their own' saddle which they bought to lessons. Saddles were fitted to the rider and the horse could be ridden in anything from 16-18'' saddle dependant on which rider they had!
No one seemed to hack, horses were only ever ridden in the arena.
General knowledge was just poorer overall.

I dont think any of it was done out of poor intent, just lack of understanding. For all the stick the BHS gets here I am extremely grateful for it and the overall basic standards of management it creates, even if the exams are poorly executed and outdated. The US could really do with something similar.

Wow, that is all shocking. I don't have any experience riding out east, but know people from there that moved to where I lived in the west and they seemed to have more of a disposable attitude towards horses (a few shocking incidents, bute being used to keep horses going), but I'm generalizing from my own anecdotal experience and have also known wonderful riders from the east coast as well. The saddle thing is crazy! I never personally saw that, but the fact it goes on in schools anywhere is appalling.

Can also say hacking tends to not be nearly as much of a thing here, but I put that down to the lack of bridle paths -- we just don't have them in general. Some people do trail riding a lot, but have to trailer their horses to places to do it, so it becomes an all-day thing, as opposed to just feeling like going for a hack from the stable. I was lucky to have ridden at a place with extensive access to land, so hacking was something I did a lot, but it is certainly uncommon and it's very dangerous to ride on roads in the US, since drivers aren't educated/accustomed on how to drive around horses.

I agree on BHS, I've been very impressed with it (granted, I don't know anything regarding it being outdated/what it's like to participate in it) and think the US would really benefit from having something like it. Thanks for your insight on the subject, very interesting.

 

[abbijay]

I recently joined an Fb Horsey page not realising that it was mostly based in the US. A person had posted that she was so happy as she had lost weight from 24 stone to 20 stone and showed a photo of herself sat on her horse. I could not believe all the replies of well done and you both look great! etc etc Of course you are not allowed to place a reply kindly advising that maybe it would be better to walk the horse for at lest another 8 stone? So 20 stone seems acceptable!
I have gained 18lb taking me to 14stone. I stopped riding my mare and will not ride again unless I can find the discipline to lose the weight. It is tough going but if I am to ride again the weight has to come off first,

I am "following" someone in the UK who started out at 27st and is looking to lose 5st so she can ride her horses again. I think it's great she's starting on the weightloss journey for her health but I cannot support her wanting to ride at 22st so I am just not commenting at all.

 

[Yokosmom]

Most of the stables/riding schools in my area of the U.S. don't seem to have a weight limit listed. I know that a local one had a weight of 170 in the past when I looked. A casual browse today pulled up one with a 150 lb. weight limit. So there are a few, at least, that are aware of the problem, but they appear to be very much in the minority.

Is 13 stone considered the top limit in the U.K.?

 

[ester]

13 for some, 14/15/16 for others though often depends on activity and skill level.

 

[simsy6]

Most of the stables/riding schools in my area of the U.S. don't seem to have a weight limit listed. I know that a local one had a weight of 170 in the past when I looked. A casual browse today pulled up one with a 150 lb. weight limit. So there are a few, at least, that are aware of the problem, but they appear to be very much in the minority.

Is 13 stone considered the top limit in the U.K.?

It certainly may be different in other parts of the country and I haven't had a trainer in the US going on about 6 years now, so I could only speak from my riding life up until that point!

In terms of limits here, the general limit I've seen at schools near me that I looked into before choosing the one I ride at was 14 or 15 stone. I ride at a school in Surrey. I would imagine it depends on how many bigger mounts each school has -- the one I'm at has a lot of big horses!

 

[teapot]

13 for some, 14/15/16 for others though often depends on activity and skill level.

I don't know anywhere that allows for 16 stone.

 

[Equi]

Im a larger rider and i got a horse to suit and work my ass off to get the weight down (im a stone lighter that i was when i got him and im working hard to get that lower again) i had joined a "big rider" group on facebook and there were a good number of americans on the site and frankly i had to leave because some of the riders were probably the same weight as a horse and im not joking. Many take the "its my right to do what i want with my horse" stance across the water whereas here its a lot more "well i don't want to be judged by myself or others so ill diet or not ride"

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don't know anywhere that allows for 16 stone.

Adventure Clydesdales will take riders of 16 stone inc all kit on their 2 hour ride. I appreciate that is for hacking out, not arena work. The riding kit inc boots and crash hat will weigh a stone or so at least, I’d have thought.

PLEASE NOTE THAT WE HAVE A WEIGHT LIMIT OF 16 STONE FOR THE 2 HOUR RIDE AND 14.5 STONE FOR THE 3 HOUR AND FULL DAY RIDES, THIS IS FOR THE WELFARE OF OUR HARD WORKING HORSES AND WILL BE STRICTLY ADHERED TO. THESE WEIGHTS ARE FULLY KITTED OUT FOR RIDING, NOT ON THE BATHROOM SCALES.

WE DO HAVE SCALES AT THE FARM AND WILL ASK PEOPLE TO WEIGH IF WE ARE IN DOUBT.

 

[Equi]

I don't know anywhere that allows for 16 stone.

A trekking centre local does. They have a large proper boned draft/cob/shire mix types and the trek is 90% of the time just a walk through the forest but the horses are all relatively fit. They ask for the weight of the rider before they put you on it and then probably add on 1/2-1st lol

 

[Wishfilly]

I know a stable that has a limit of 16st as well, for hacking out (14st for school work/jumping) but they only have two horses that can realistically take that weight, so couldn't accommodate a group of larger riders. Realistically, finding weight carrying types that are also safe for beginners is tough for a riding school, and a lot of people round their weight down by at least half a stone!