Genuine rugging question...

[nikkimariet]

You gotta be joking - it was about two years ago!! I don't even think my list of posts goes back that far since the new hho 'set up'. However many it was - it was a ridiculous amount!

Interesting that you are seemingly unable to produce evidence to back up your rather wild claims...

HAPPY AND RELAXED?!! Are you kidding? They can't leave the yard without exploding and rearing vertically!!! (Or to be fair - one of them can't!)

He also wouldn't leave the start box without exploding and rearing vertically, and his trainer branded him a nappy ungenuine b@st@rd. Oh, have a look at this: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153223836200195 And in case you missed it, here he is in his prize giving as an ex racer, placed 3rd in a strong PSG class: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153271692330195

Moomin1 - i was completely with you in your outrage of a horse wearing 8 rugs but that then became 5 and now that doesnt seem to be right...

That's because she keeps changing what she says to suit her argument!!!!!! And to refer back to my first point, it is astoundingly hilarious that Moomin can't/won't find any evidence of us having said we put 8 or 5 HW's on our horses. They've never even owned that many rugs.

Moomin, I will quote one of the only other threads of yours I have read:

"My girl can be a bit of a nightmare, particularly hacking (although mainly when she is alone) and gets very het up in new situations. I have had some really disheartening hacks out on my own where she ends up so wound up she starts roaring like a dragon and frothing up all over!"

Interesting!!! Are you sure your horse is happy Moomin? Perhaps you need more saddlepads, that always makes them perform better.

If anyone thinks I am over rugging my fine coated, thin skinned, poor doer they are welcome to pay my feed bill. They will soon be up for adding an extra rug!

How much is your feed bill? At the moment I'm spending around £120 a month on hard feed alone.

Oh and I do recall their Shetland was wearing two hw's or mws at the time also

Again, please directly quote where either of us has said that. I make that request because Toby never owned 2 HW's I like that it's either HW's or MW's, you actually don't remember. And you don't remember because it was never a statement made by myself or PS. So I can say with full conviction, that you, love, are you talking out your bum

ETA he did wear a full neck HW after being clipped when I bought him into work to get some weight off him, which is fine because according to you it's ok for clipped horses to be rugged

 

[amandaco2]

My psg is in a 200g combo. He is still needing a bit more weight on, fully clipped and feels the cold. He gets 2 hw combo on in cold weather with an under rug as well. If he was still cold add a lycra dust suit/snuggly hood....
Thinner layers are better at keeping them warm.
I'm not a rug fanatic. The semi retired girl is naked and hairy.

 

[Kokopelli]

I don't understand why this had turned into a witch hunt. Its ridiculous if I was a horse I would think I won the lottery living with them and I wouldn't think twice about sending my own boy to them.

Also has anyone stopped to think the reason people are rugging a bit now is because its gone from being warm to unseasonably cold and the horses don't have winter coats? My boy is in a no fill when its wet and his snuggy jams at night but our American barn is colder then outside. If he was in the older well insulated stables no doubt he'd be wearing nothing but I don't see why I or anyone else for that matter have to justify themselves to strangers on a forum.

I think there's a lot of jealousy going on here.

 

[BWa]

HHO at its best. *sigh*
If this was a livery yard it would be the most miserable, bitchy yard in the world!

 

[splashnutti1]

I personally think each to there own,

I actually got accused of being a mean owner the other day as my cob is out in all the wind and rain unrugged and old man is only in a lightweight but they are fine, i did relent to pressure and put a lightweight on the cob for one nite when rain was torrential only to find him sweating in the morning!!

Same person said i was cruel last year cos he was fully clipped and only out in a med weight rug! he was fine!

each individdual horse is different and is surely up to the owner what they do with them?

 

[JulesRules]

Oh dear. This thread seems to have got a bit personal and I'm still not really any wiser.

Do people really put more than one heavyweight on their horse at the same time? Does anyone admit to this? I'm not judging anyone I'm just intrigued.

 

[glamourpuss]

The one thing that always hits me about these threads is the smugness surrounding the lack of rugging 'Oh look its -456 and my pony is toasty warm without a rug on'
Well jolly good for you.

You don't get that the other way around. Those of us that *have* to rug our animals warmly (and you know what it isn't a fashion/trend/whatever it IS responding to a horses needs) don't do it the other way (although I'm possibly about to break that trend )

Moomin1 you really do come across as having some sort of issue with PS and NMT, it does make you seem incredibly spiteful.
Maybe if someone else spells out the sparkle sisters situation to you & Justabob might finally *get it*
-One horse has to be kept warm, it suffers from EPSM. It would be cruel to expect the horse to work at the level he is with stiff, sore muscles.
- One horse is a very poor doer, there is little point pouring feed and haylage into it if it's shivering it all off
- One horse is getting on in age.


Oh and for the record if I had to have my horses looked after by anyone on this forum, I would happily let it be PS and NMT. There would be no way on god's earth they would ever be allowed in your care.

 

[glamourpuss]

Oh dear. This thread seems to have got a bit personal and I'm still not really any wiser.

Do people really put more than one heavyweight on their horse at the same time? Does anyone admit to this? I'm not judging anyone I'm just intrigued.

I have layered heavyweights on one of mine. I actually don't care if anyone wants to judge me....it was the right thing to do for him

 

[BobbyMondeo]

Oh dear. This thread seems to have got a bit personal and I'm still not really any wiser.

Do people really put more than one heavyweight on their horse at the same time? Does anyone admit to this? I'm not judging anyone I'm just intrigued.

I put 2 on my horse last winter, when they got stuck out in the snow and they lived out 24/7 for a week. Hes never lived out over night before and i didnt want him shivering weight off. The most i have put on other than that is a fleece under a HW

 

[RunToEarth]

I take the view that if they have to be clipped and out hunting for 4+ hours in the depth of winter then putting anything on even our thin skinned TBs right now won't do them any favours in the long run, I am a fan of layering and for that reason don't have any of the largest heavyweights anyway.

I'm not too bothered what other people do, as long as it doesn't interfere with me and mine. My only issue with rug debates on here are those people who have no idea how many of what to put on, that is scary.

 

[TGM]

I think Moomin1 was referring to this quote from PS in Oct 11:

"-i think last winter mine ended up wearing a full neck fleece, full neck 120gm and a couple of full neck HW's. cant quite remember, i just keep checking and adding/removing as appropriate!

imagine the shetty will need no more than a couple of HW full necks on, thats once he's clipped, as will be working this winter and he does get super sweaty."

 

[Capriole]

I usually stay away from these threads as I think they are quite mental, as I don't give a toot who does what or when but just wanted to refer to a post above about TBs and say my purebred TB is a very hot horse and doesn't need rugging to the eyeballs. I've never personally known one that does, but I fully accept that as with any other breed, each TB is an individual and should be rugged accordingly.

That's because she keeps changing what she says to suit her argument!!!!!! And to refer back to my first point, it is astoundingly hilarious that Moomin can't/won't find any evidence of us having said we put 8 or 5 HW's on our horses. They've never even owned that many rugs.

No, the 8 rug thing was a comment made by someone else, on a different thread. 5 is what she's saying you or your sister used (I don't know which, haven't been paying enough attention).

 

[glamourpuss]

I think Moomin1 was referring to this quote from PS in Oct 11:

"-i think last winter mine ended up wearing a full neck fleece, full neck 120gm and a couple of full neck HW's. cant quite remember, i just keep checking and adding/removing as appropriate!

imagine the shetty will need no more than a couple of HW full necks on, thats once he's clipped, as will be working this winter and he does get super sweaty."

Really? So Moomin is remembering & rehashing a comment made by PS almost 2 years ago.....ok....that's.....urm....perfectly normal & not at all stalkerish...[hopes PS & NMT don't have a bunny]

Look even in that quote PS is stating that it was the maximum amount used. I'm suspecting when it was very cold & when fully clipped. She even says they were checked & changed accordingly......so really WHAT IS THE PROBLEM??

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

I think Moomin1 was referring to this quote from PS in Oct 11:

"-i think last winter mine ended up wearing a full neck fleece, full neck 120gm and a couple of full neck HW's. cant quite remember, i just keep checking and adding/removing as appropriate!

imagine the shetty will need no more than a couple of HW full necks on, thats once he's clipped, as will be working this winter and he does get super sweaty."

which is still not 8 HW, or 5 even, its 2!!!! a thin base layer that can be easily washed (the fleece) then a thinner layer, the 120 gm, that can be removed or added depending on wind chill/rain/temp going up and down, and the 2 HW, which many other people have said they also use.

as for the shetty, he was fully clipped and i *think* (NMT can correct me as she has a better memory than me!) he ended up in the same washable base layer fleece OR a LW, and then a HW on top, which was quite old and battered and sort of a middling MW/HW hybrid.

Both the TB's now have armadillo magnet sheets as a bottom layer which are warm but light and washable, and i *think* (again NMT will be able to confirm), they had either a fleece plus 2 HW or a LW plus 2 HW on in the absolute coldest part of the winter and just 2 HW on in the moderately freezing parts of winter!

so thats 4 rugs max total. I prefer the washable base layer as much easier to keep fresh than thick HW.

i dont think we are freaks of nature by any stretch as all the schooling liveries we have had over the last 2/3 winters have had 3/4 rugs (incl a thin base layer) on in the coldest part of the year, friends with horses working at similar levels also have 2/3/4 rugs on dependant on clip and horse etc.

i seriously doubt CS's issues with hacking have anything to do with his rugs, be they too many or too few! He was an idiot in race training and has being an idiot to varying degrees ever since! However in the last 6 months he has improved dramatically, which you would know if you bothered to go and read any of my other posts (instead of making wild accusations). He's been hacking, stubble bashing, and tomorrow is going to the beach
NMT has already linked to his prizegiving vid from sun, and i have to say im incredibly proud of him for being so chilled.
Miserable, upset, badly behaved horses dont score 66% at PSG Moomin.

 

[Holding]

Can't believe I'm reading all of these threads all the way through when I could be rug shopping.

 

[doriangrey]

My retired thoroughbred mare (23) is always unrugged. She simply will not wear one, well she will but she always removes them - so I figure she knows best. She grows an exceptional wooly coat, when it rains (and it really rains here), you can see it running off her guard hairs (is that applicable to horses?) and the fur/skin under is dry, I know because I check often. A few years ago it was minus 20 here for 2 weeks solid. She was absolutely fine, as long as she had plenty to eat (adlib haylage along with her grazing) she was warm - never bothered coming in to the barn. I did cave and make her a warm breakfast of unmollased beat morning and evening. However, just because she is comfortable like that it doesn't make me qualified to tell other people how to rug their horses. How would I know what they need? They don't belong to me and I don't manage them. I certainly wouldn't be telling anyone with competition horses (any discipline) how to do it. Seems a bit presumptious.

 

[glamourpuss]

Can't believe I'm reading all of these threads all the way through when I could be rug shopping.

Actual love for Holding right now

No don't buy rugs Holding....no horse in the world needs rugs.
In fact all the problem & misbehaving horses in the world are caused by us stupid owners who insist on grooming & rugging them.

 

[TGM]

Really? So Moomin is remembering & rehashing a comment made by PS almost 2 years ago.....ok....that's.....urm....perfectly normal & not at all stalkerish...[hopes PS & NMT don't have a bunny]

Well actually the thought of a shetland possibly needing two HW rugs was remarkable enough for it to stick in my memory, so I can quite understand why Moomin1 (and quite a few other forum users) remembers it so well!

 

[Countrychic]

Why do people start these bloody rug threads. It just gives people who enjoy putting others down a platform to do so.
PS and NMT I don't even know why you bother. Your horses look fantastic, have made huge progress and have thrown up so many different challenges, all of which you have researched and then tried different things until you found what worked and kept them happy. The fact that people are looking back through all your old threads to find ammunition to wind you up with is too sad for words.
My horses are rugged as I see fit. Often when I see other peoples horses I think they look stiff and dull. I dropped a horse off at a livery yard the other day and the whole yard were gobsmacked she was in a lightweight. I looked at all their horses in the field and were gobsmacked they thought their horses looked good. I just didn't feel the need to preach or force my opinions on to them.

Eta in response to above post. Surely once you have removed all a shetlands coat it is not much better equipt to deal with the depths of winter than another horse? They have told you they didn't end up using 2 HWs so what's the drama?

The people on here need to take some of their own rugs off and chill out!

 

[poops]

Havent read every post but if dry mine prefer to be unrugged. However if raining they both seem to like their rugs on, especially the older one who suffered from rain scald.

 

[Dizzleton]

I naively started a rug thread a couple of days ago saying my cold WB is currently in a MW full neck (turned out 24/7 until the bad weather sets in) I then went onto say that he is then fully clipped Oct/Nov time and turned out for 12 hours in every weather in a 450g + 360g + full fleece + turnout boots - He's never too hot and never sweaty, so I think it suits him.

I believe you should do what suits your horse - whether it's a TB out naked and happy or a cob that's cold and needs rugs. There is no point in arguing on a forum who rugs what and how, as at the end of the day it's not going to help anyone!

 

[glamourpuss]

Why do people start these bloody rug threads. It just gives people who enjoy putting others down a platform to do so.
PS and NMT I don't even know why you bother. Your horses look fantastic, have made huge progress and have thrown up so many different challenges, all of which you have researched and then tried different things until you found what worked and kept them happy. The fact that people are looking back through all your old threads to find ammunition to wind you up with is too sad for words.
My horses are rugged as I see fit. Often when I see other peoples horses I think they look stiff and dull. I dropped a horse off at a livery yard the other day and the whole yard were gobsmacked she was in a lightweight. I looked at all their horses in the field and were gobsmacked they thought their horses looked good. I just didn't feel the need to preach or force my opinions on to them.

Eta in response to above post. Surely once you have removed all a shetlands coat it is not much better equipt to deal with the depths of winter than another horse? They have told you they didn't end up using 2 HWs so what's the drama?

The people on here need to take some of their own rugs off and chill out!

Adds Countrychic to my spreadsheet of people who I would trust with my horses.

 

[glamourpuss]

Well actually the thought of a shetland possibly needing two HW rugs was remarkable enough for it to stick in my memory, so I can quite understand why Moomin1 (and quite a few other forum users) remembers it so well!

Well you, Moomin & 'quite a few forum users' haven't actually remembered it that well because there have been some wild & inaccurate claims that they put 5 HW rugs on their horses!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Adds Countrychic to my spreadsheet of people who I would trust with my horses.

ditto.

I teach at 2 big livery yards and a couple of smaller ones, i see FAR more tucked up, stary, slightly poor looking horses in this weather than i do over rugged horses sweating to death.
I appreciated its incredibly hard when you work full time and see the horse at 6am and 6pm and cannot change things in between, and this sudden colder snap has caught us all off guard but it does suprise me to see elderly, poor doers, underweight, fine coated etc type, out in the wind and rain, with no natural protection, looking tucked,shivery and sad. Im sure they wont melt or die, but they sure look like they could do with a bit of TLC.
the mind also boggles at people who stand clipping/grooming/washing with no rug over the horse, who whip fully clipped horses out the stable in to the rain/sleet/snow with no quarter sheet or stand around at shows with no rug on etc etc.
we interfer with nature by taking the hair off, we owe it to the horse to be more diligent about keeping them warm when not working.

ETA-theres a lot of, almost bragging? by people on this forum, that their horse only needs a rug when its -20 etc and i would often be interested to see condition pics of those horses, because some pics on other threads make me wince-ribby,dull coats, dull eyes etc, they arent fit, just plain poor. This does NOT apply to everyone thats replied saying their horse is out naked, as i accept many horse live in the pink of health without rugs and mollycoddling, but theres just a few posters i do wonder aboit.

 

[Moomin1]

Well you, Moomin & 'quite a few forum users' haven't actually remembered it that well because there have been some wild & inaccurate claims that they put 5 HW rugs on their horses!

If you read the thread you will notice I said 'someone' on a different thread said they put 8 rugs on. I didn't say PS. I also said with regards PS that I couldn't recall the exact number of rugs, but that it was a ludicrous amount. And that is a ludicrous amount. I stand by what I say.

 

[Moomin1]

ditto.

I teach at 2 big livery yards and a couple of smaller ones, i see FAR more tucked up, stary, slightly poor looking horses in this weather than i do over rugged horses sweating to death.
I appreciated its incredibly hard when you work full time and see the horse at 6am and 6pm and cannot change things in between, and this sudden colder snap has caught us all off guard but it does suprise me to see elderly, poor doers, underweight, fine coated etc type, out in the wind and rain, with no natural protection, looking tucked,shivery and sad. Im sure they wont melt or die, but they sure look like they could do with a bit of TLC.
the mind also boggles at people who stand clipping/grooming/washing with no rug over the horse, who whip fully clipped horses out the stable in to the rain/sleet/snow with no quarter sheet or stand around at shows with no rug on etc etc.
we interfer with nature by taking the hair off, we owe it to the horse to be more diligent about keeping them warm when not working.

ETA-theres a lot of, almost bragging? by people on this forum, that their horse only needs a rug when its -20 etc and i would often be interested to see condition pics of those horses, because some pics on other threads make me wince-ribby,dull coats, dull eyes etc, they arent fit, just plain poor. This does NOT apply to everyone thats replied saying their horse is out naked, as i accept many horse live in the pink of health without rugs and mollycoddling, but theres just a few posters i do wonder aboit.

Haha, oh believe me, the day my mare looks ribby and dull coated and sad I will be getting the vet out pronto! She is actually the picture of health, which has had many comments and compliments of late.

I repeat again, my mare IS rugged in winter, just not to the ridiculous extent *some people do. She isn't a native, and she is very fine coated. Yet she still manages to thrive very healthily. Not bragging, simply the truth. Lucky me I suppose.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My two are out at night in an exposed field in the Pennines with summer rain sheets on. They come in by day and dry out with no rugs. After my first clip in November I put on 250g rugs, and after the second clip in Jan I change to a 350g rug, but they are usually only in that for a few weeks before they get too hot and go back down to their middleweights. In winter they are in by night and on a hardcore turnout area that has shelter under the overhang of the stables by day. They don't get hard feed, only low cal balancer, hifi light and haylage

And ours are not far away from Honey's, although possibly more exposed, as we are a bit higher. The riding horses were out earlier this week overnight but came in for a few hours in the afternoon to dry off. Their field does have natural shelter. We made sure that they had plenty of forage to keep them warm. They youngsters stayed out all day and came in overnight because their field has very little shelter. None of them wore a rug at any time.
I can only think that the rug companies have extremely good marketting departments and common-sense isn't as common as it should be. I wonder how some people would feel if they had to wear 2 coats every time they went out.
Obviously truly vulnerable horses such as the old or ill need extra protection but really some of the ideas on this forum make me laugh! Or despair!

 

[TGM]

Well you, Moomin & 'quite a few forum users' haven't actually remembered it that well because there have been some wild & inaccurate claims that they put 5 HW rugs on their horses!

Well make your mind up, if she remembers a quote correctly she's accused of being a stalker and if she gets it slightly wrong then that is criticised too! To be honest I don't really care too much, but I did remember the old thread and there was a direct request on here to quote, which is what I've done, I'll leave the rest of you to argue over all the nuances!

 

[PolarSkye]

ETA-theres a lot of, almost bragging? by people on this forum, that their horse only needs a rug when its -20 etc

Yup . . . along with the "my horse can be led from the field using pixie dust and fairy wishes/my horse never barges or hots up or misbehaves/my horse needs magical unicorn juice to keep in peak condition/my horse doesn't need hard feed - all hard feed is the work of the devil" . . .

. . . seriously, if you want to cover your horse from head to toe in bright pink rugs made of silk spun by magical spiders, I don't care and nor should anyone else . . .

. . . the irony here is that, if you really read all the posts on this thread (and all the other "should I rug/feed/bathe/stable/NH/ride bareback/lead in a chiffney" threads we are all actually agreeing (well, most of us) . . . it boils down to one thing . . . horses and owners are all individuals with individual metabolisms, individual workloads, individual field conditions/grazing quality . . .

P

 

[montanna]

My mare lived out last winter. TB x WB and very poor doer. She was turned away, unclipped, in September wearing a MW full neck rug, which then had to have a HW put underneath it when it a few months later, as I was shocked at how poorly she was doing. The horses out had adlib haylage. She was then brought in in January as she had lost so much weight she was quite disgusting, and looked like a hat rack.

My gelding, at the same time, TB x WB, I never struggled to keep weight on. He was fully clipped and in regular work, out in the day, in at night, competing BS at the weekend - he had just the one MW turnout on all winter as he was such a 'hot' horse.

I on the other hand, am sitting here in my office with the heater on 28 degrees, in a long sleeve tshirt and fleece on top, uggs and jeans on and still cold. The other two I share my office with are absolutely fine in a tshirt and jeans and moaning at me for having the heating so high!!!!

What happened to rugging for the individual horse?????????????? My two were very similar in build and in breeding, yet needed totally different rugs. In fact, they were the same size so it worked out brilliantly for me as I needed fewer rugs and swapped them between them, as one was always in a lighter weight than the other.

To be honest, I wouldn't stand for anyone telling me I was wrong for doing this... and I don't even know why PS and NMT are even dignifying the people questioning them with an answer.

If you don't know the horse, you don't know squat.