Getting help? Why? Why not?

[TarrSteps]

A genuine musing/query. . .

I've had a series of conversations today with people who have what I would consider quite serious but fairly straightforward problems with their horses. They had various reasons for not seeking help up to this point but I'm curious to know what people think usually stops people.

Is it concern over cost?
Not knowing where to look?
Previous negative experiences?
Pride?
Not knowing help is possible/available?
Concern that it's just going to a massive, complicated pain of a process vs just living with the problem?

Just curious what people's experiences and observations have been. I'm inclined to assume every problem has a solution, if I can just find the person who knows it and that solutions are cheaper than problems in the long run (whether I can/want to put the solution into effect might be a whole different conversation!) but perhaps that's not the majority view.

 

[Baggybreeches]

I think sometimes it is down fear. Most people tend to assume the worst with horses and are a little 'ostrich like' about problems. Also how far do you go with certain issues? Is there a finite cut off point? I am interested to know because whilst riding & leading this morning I was pondering, my big TB (who is now 15) has a few issues (physical) which we manage to a certain extent, but with thorough investigation could possibly managed differently, but how far do you go with a horse that is actually doing anything much other than hacking and hunting with the odd RC show thrown in, if he is more or less sound (less sound on cold days!) and more or less happy (more happy when he's working hard!). If I threw the kitchen sink in I could end up with a bill for investigations running into thousands which would likely only confirm what I can see for myself and am perfectly well aware of?

I think lots of people are a little blissfully ignorant, others haven't had the right help, some have no idea they need help and some don't think they have a problem.

 

[undertheweather]

Do you mean behavioural or medical?

Behaviourally, personally it's because I wouldn't know who to ask/trust etc and personally I am a confident rider and am happy to trouble on through and usually find they come right. If it got worse I'm not sure what I would do.

Medically, my horses are always insured so I do go all out. I do know someone however who is awful, we really have to work on her to get anything done with the horses. It is money with her and something else. She took a dead horse's passport in to get sweet itch medication

 

[Booboos]

I don't know as personally I have weekly training and also immediately seek extra help with anything behavioural or medical that crops up (and with horses something is always cropping up!).

From reading people's views on fora I think there are a variety of reasons:

1. There seem to be an astonishing number of very novice horse owners who go at it alone. They sort of seem to assume that learning to ride happens in an RS and once you get your own horse you now know what you are doing. It's astonishing how many of them buy the wrong horse again and again without involving an instructor to comment on whether they are ready for horse ownership in the first place and then help them find a suitable partner.

2. This may be as a result of all these claims of 'new and improved' methods of training that people are pedling in DVDs, books and shows, but a lot of people seem reluctant to ask for help from fear of someone beating up their horse. There seems to be a preconception that instructors go around abusing horses and getting help equals to getting your horse hit.

3. Similarly, perhaps due to the proliferation of genuine veterinary supportive professionals as well as the endless list of quacks doing the rounds (reading minds, waving crystals, 'analysing' manes), many people don't go to their vets as their first port of call for what may be physical problems. I never fail to be surprised when people claim that they have had all checks done for pain and actually mean that their YO said all is well with the horse, their chiro put the pelvis back in and the communicator said that the horse is happier now than ever before but no vet has actually seen the poor beast!

 

[TarrSteps]

I think fear in various forms is a big one!

Someone told me recently she resisted getting help with her young horse for fear of being judged for having a problem in the first place! I didn't ask if she'd ever had this reaction from an instructor/trainer - I hope not!!

I do think it's different if a horse is doing its job just fine - my general rule is don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you! I've managed lots of horses that couldn't be 'fixed' but worked just fine. Maybe that's another area - are people looking for quick, permanent solutions without knowing that, if that's not possible, there might be management options out there.

I was thinking training/behavioural but in fact there is a huge cross over with medical so it's often all part of the same conversation.

 

[Firewell]

I dont know.. if it was me Behavioural I did with my old horse. Hit a brick wall with handling her, didnt know what to do so got help from the natural horsemanship people and it worked brilliantly.
Medical I would get investigstions if my horse was in pain or couldnt do what I wanted for some reason.
I dont see people struggling on myself at any of the yards im at. Most people tick along quite happily with their horses and they are always having lessons or getting the vet or the physio if they arent happy?!

 

[Baggybreeches]

I do think it's different if a horse is doing its job just fine - my general rule is don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you! I've managed lots of horses that couldn't be 'fixed' but worked just fine. Maybe that's another area - are people looking for quick, permanent solutions without knowing that, if that's not possible, there might be management options out there.

That's a very good point, probably because I have had to deal with horses that are unwanted for various different reasons I make allowances for their inadequacies in certain areas, but it doesn't stop us doing things, whereas other people might down tools and insist that the horse was 100% absolutely fir as a flea before continuing. I don't think it's a realistic idea to have a horse that is 100% everyday forever, we all have off days why can't horses have them too?
As an example I had a horse (a very very athletic horse) who was bone idle and backward thinking, due, I think to having flat feet, my way round this was to hack him more than school him and always start off by hacking uphill from my house as it got his marching on and forward, whereas going down the hill made him back off mental and possibly put more pressure on his heels? This made the biggest single improvement in him above every other thing I did, is that wrong or should he have been investigated to kingdom come before I did what I did?

 

[TarrSteps]

I think 'yard culture' is another factor, Firewell.

 

[TarrSteps]

It is interesting you use that example, Bb. I went to see a horse once because it was refusing to hack. The only ways out of the yard were all down steep hills on tarmac except for the one that was a rutted, rocky path. We did get the horse going out reasonably well but not long after he was diagnosed with severe damage in his front feet and retired. He's not the only one I've seen with a similar pattern.

I've had a few that had their 'nappiness or tension on the roads' significantly improved by getting road nails/borium or even having their shoes removed.

 

[asterid]

Pride, arrogance and ignorance.

I think people have pretty much said it all really.

People overhorse themselves quite a lot and rather than think that they are they one with the problem, they blame the horse. Equally as said before it is a pride thing and would feel embarrassed to seek help.

Arrogance, when people have all the gear and no idea, but think they are gods gift and never need lessons etc.

Ignorance, as said, people who really have no idea and have no idea where to seek help from.

There are so many people at my yard that don't have lessons but think they are or want to be the next Ellen Whittaker! So, yes, yard culture I think plays a big part too. There a lot of have a go harrys in this world, which is fine.

My personal view is that I want to be the best rider/ owner I can be in the limits of my skill, experience and purse strings. This means that my experience allowed me to back, train and bring on youngsters, so when I got my OTTB, I was able to deal with that great. I have a DR instructor for maintaining flatwork and an SJ trainer to help really take me forward with my BS. I have learnt a lot from them in taking us both forward.

Good musings, of which I am keen to see more answers!

 

[WellyBaggins]

I think another reason is when you have a problem if you don't get help ASAP it then becomes "normal" I found this a bit myself, horse started a behaviour, I could "manage" with it so carried on, a year later horse was quite a serious problem and when I did finally get some help my new trainer was horrified with my situation, she made a massive difference to us, in the end there were some physical issues that needed addressing too so fingers crossed with the tools my trainer has given us and the physical problems sorted we will be going great guns

 

[Cortez]

Yes, I'm always puzzled as to why people don't just get a lesson or a trainer to sort out their problems? Surely that is what a professional is FOR? And 90% of the problems are quite easily solved (early on), either by training or medical intervention. Is the current culture averse to lessons or training? Is this due to finances, habits or peer pressure, do you think?

 

[Marchtime]

Blissful ignorance mixed with hope that it will improve

I think some of it is definitely the difficulty in trying to find the right people. There are many people out there willing to offer their input and advice but it's not always beneficial/the outcome isn't always positive. Finding someone who can truly help can be hard. Word of mouth is normally a good way, but some instructors can be very set in their techniques which doesn't work with all horses.

 

[charlie76]

I'm not too proud to get help. I like to think I am a fairly decent rider and I am a qualified instructor to bhsi level but I am always willing to take things from another perspective. I have Saratoga on here riding my horse weekly as I had hit a brick wall with him, I am finding having a different rider and a different way of asking for things a revelation for us both.
I would never let pride stand before the potential of solving a problem.

 

[Booboos]

TS I completely agree that if a horse does its job well there is no reason to mess with things, however in my admitedly limited experience I have only ever known one horse that did its job with no issues at all for years on end. Everyone else I have known has struggled at one time or another.

 

[Elsiecat]

When I had problems with horse at first I was too embarrassed to ask for help. I also felt like if I had help I would have given up. It sounds daft, but like when you're on the verge of tears, and someone hugs you - and you break down? Like that. I had to grit my teeth and keep on going for fear of losing it!!!

After about 10 days I forged a friendship with a knowledgeable woman on the new yard and help just gradually came my way from her.

If I was back in the position again I'd slap myself and ask for help!

 

[Goldenstar]

Sometimes I think that genuine novices don't realise how much things can be changed by training , they think to themselves I'm not very good that's how it is
I had a lot of not very kind negative training when I was young it took meeting
Some good trainers to show me how much you can change with the right help.

 

[showjumpingfilly]

I'm in a bit of pickle with one of mine.

I've tried lots medicallywith her but just can't find the answer.

However i know part of it is my confidence -for example - ar the moment i'm scared to canter her. The actual canter is ok, its jus the transition. I know she'll buck/play up, she knows I know that, so I ask pathetically and shetries it on, cue me being the wimp we both know i am.

So, ive come to the conclusion i need help. Trouble is, i don't know who to ask. I've asked before and one person told me i was pathetic (even as a child/young teenager) another seemed to look down at me because i was struggling, and another was more harm than good) so finding the right person is a right pain. I just want someone to sit on, show me, make me.

Cost is a bit of a factor in the sense that i don't have money to throw away on lessons/schooling fees when they may not help.

I'm insured so that's not a huge issue on the medical front but there is still a nagging sense of what if its major? Even though i wouldnt hesitate to try and out it right.

 

[Cortez]

I find it strange that people apear not to have access to good trainers/teachers (we don't here either, BTW, but this is deepest, darkest Ireland). When I lived in America/France/Spain it was simple to attach oneself to the local professional and have ongoing help and support. Is there something wrong with the BHS system, in that it doesn't produce reliable instruction/training? Is a bog standard riding school not capable of delivering true professional work?

 

[siennamum]

I think there are people who feel they know how to ride and don't need any help, very often they are pretty decent and do ok so fair play to them. I like lessons & clinics more than competing these days and a couple of these people are a bit mystified about why I have lessons but don't compete.
I would like to get loads more help and have a fair idea of where I could get it, but can't afford it, in fact many problems I have are due to a lack of funds, which is a pain, and stops me seeking more help.
I also have a fear about getting the wrong advice. My boy is a wilful little sod and although I am tempted to have a nagsman type get on and straighten him out I also fear he could be made sour or resentful, so avoid taking the chance.

 

[TarrSteps]

That was kind of my point, Booboos. If it's going well (obviously an element of personal opinion, at least outside of competition) then there is no reason to fuss unduly so long as the situation is being managed effectively. (ALL horses are being managed, even if it just means they are lucky enough to happen into a situation that suits them.) But if the situation isn't working, by whatever standards, then there is almost always a way to improve it. (Again, with the qualifier that the optimal solution might not be possible within the confines of the situation.)

I do think some people genuinely do not feel that improvement is possible. Or, I guess on the opposite end of the spectrum, it will come from simply keeping on keeping on - this CAN be the case, but it's not a given, and it doesn't mean there isn't an easier, quicker, less painful way to get to the same solution.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think there is still an issue with getting good help.
One of the reason I like the trainer I work with so much is that she never just gives you a lessons she's always working to develop you give the tools to develop things when she's not there whatever level you are at.
Sjf's post says exactly what I think happens to a lot of people they have a lesson with unkind unconstructive people and ruins their confidence , and because of bad experiances they never realise what fabulous fun having the right sort of training can be.

 

[showjumpingfilly]

Precisely goldenstar, and to be fair, the best trainer i ever had was more of a 'coach' athough also more of a friend. I had a fab time with them, but one thing or another got in the way. They helped me not only in the correct way to achieve x,y, or z but in other aspects like say coursewalking (never had anyone do this with me before although may be standard for some of you) plus i was allowed to tag along at shows and gain that much needed experience of the whole picture rather than just me riding my horse. I learnt tons and was much happier than just a one hour a week working on a bit of shoulder in etc.

 

[showjumpingfilly]

I have to say though asking for help has never been my forte in anything, be it school, work, horses. I hate feeling stupid or getting it wrong, so normally muddle along, and do enjoy the satisfaction of getting it right myself. But then i guess its never been anything major to sort.

I think peer pressure/media can be a powerful tool in that actually you do want to get help to be the same and be out and about having the same fun as everyone else.

 

[Goldenstar]

You also have to learn to learn , this took me some time suss I was so sure that riding well was some sort of magical gift that it was an amazing feeling when I cracked the how to learn thing.
It took me time to learn to avoid negative trainers by that I don't mean that a trainer should tell you you are great all the time , but they ought not belittle people who are paying for help.

 

[Chloe_GHE]

I think probably competition riders are better at seeking advice than the avg rider. Constantly going out and having a record of your achievements is a good indicator of if things are going well, and when the results aren't what you would like that's often the catalyst that many people need to take a critical look at their situation and reach out for advice.

tbh I think there is a really bad lack of knowledgeable instructors/proper horsemen out there in the UK for people to go to, and so they end up going to some half baked wally who walks the walk but hasn't got a scrap of sensible knowledge/experience behind them, then they get terrible advice, which doesn't work, then their faith in reaching out for help is lost.

I am very lucky because my instructor is hugely experienced, and trains/trained with the best (Conrad Schumacher, Kyra Kirkland, Sandy Phillips, Cpt Mark Phillips, Marianne Gilchrist, Pru Harvey, Ellen Bontje etc) but I spent years wasting my time and money on RC instructors, local eventers who taught, and BHS bods. I knew something was wrong but I didn't know what so I went through a few instructors looking for a solution and in the end I was tipped off to try my instructor (Amanda Brewer) purely by accident, but by a past team GB eventer.

I put myself completely in her hands with regards to my and my horse's progress, and follow her training plan accordingly, I trust her 100% BUT it has taken me SO long to find someone like this, and I know not everyone is so lucky. Prior to this I feel any request for help from other people would have been totally hit and miss in regards to quality of advice

 

[Booboos]

That was kind of my point, Booboos. .

Yes sorry I was agreeing with you but didn't make myself very clear!

 

[Booboos]

I think people in the UK are extremely lucky in the wealth of trainers easily available. Most top trainers hold regular clinics, all you have to do is sign up, and they are happy to help all kinds of riders and horses. More locally there are many decent instructors to be had and I've never had a problem finding someone decent willing to come to me, despite moving up and down the country frequently.

Compare the situation with France, at least here in the south. Within a 2 hour drive there is only one dressage instructor. Luckily she's lovely but if you didn't get on with her that would be it. In the two years I have been here there has been one visiting instructor clinic with very few places.

 

[Chloe_GHE]

I think people in the UK are extremely lucky in the wealth of trainers easily available.

Compare the situation with France

I was more referring to how much better the general horsemanship education and flatwork instruction is in Germany compared to the UK. I would love to spend a few months at a barn in Germany and really learn from the best, I just get the impression that their standards are higher.....could be wrong though as I have no first hand experience to reference....

 

[JFTDWS]

For a training issue, I go it alone because I don't trust other people - either not to put us down and trash my confidence, or to dismiss us as hopeless cases (native and untalented rider!), or to try to pressure me into doing things I am not ethically comfortable with in a training context (I've had some bad experiences!). That said, I've never had a serious training issue - though I'm sure with the right trainer / a better rider mine would be much more advanced

For a veterinary issue, I trust my own judgement and would always get a vet if necessary, and push for whatever I felt necessary in terms of treatment, second opinions, referrals etc.