Getting horse more electric to the leg...maybe

[DabDab]

Thank you for that.

Every time I get on any horse, my own that I ride all the time or a new horse I have never sat on before, I do the same thing. The same first very simple exercise to ask them to be light off my leg and let them know that I will be light in return.

The exercise couldn't be simpler.

Get on. Wait at a halt and the number one most important thing is to assess your own position as you stand there. I tend to always lift my knees away from the saddle, up and then let them hang back down again. This opens my hip and makes sure my leg is a/ positioned correctly and b/ the correct part of my calf is in contact with the horse. If I am tipped slightly forward or back, I will realise it as soon as I open my hips, so that's the seat taken care of. Then I do a shoulder roll or two, and make sure I am sitting tall and light in my seat.

So, before you even ask the horse to walk, you have set yourself up for better success by making it easier for the horse to carry and listen to you.

The actual exercise that I use to get the horse off the leg is lots and lots of walk-halt-walk transitions. They are not simple though. You need to see this exercise as being one of the most important of the entire session. What you do in these first few minutes can dictate the whole session, so take it seriously and concentrate.

When you have your position sorted and are happy, take a long and relaxed contact on the reins and ask the horse to walk on by doing no more than flexing the calf muscle. Don't be fooled into thinking the horse won't feel this. They can feel a fly land on them, they can feel your muscle contract!. If you get any forward movement at all....even a really half hearted transition into walk, allow forward with the hand and have a neutral seat that just moves with the motion and give the horse a rub on the wither with your fingers. Walk just three or four strides, take a deep breath in and as you breathe out, tighten your core muscles and think halt. If the horse doesn't halt, just back it up with the reins just enough to get the halt. As soon as you get the halt, relax the rein and your core muscles and give another little rub on the withers and a "good girl". Count to three and ask for a walk again. Same thing, begin by asking with nothing more than flexing the calf muscle. Again, any forward movement should be rewarded instantly with a little rub on the wither.

Now...if you ask for a walk with a flex of the calf muscle and the horse doesn't move, don't bother nagging with the leg, but back it up with a quick sharp tap with a schooling whip. I prefer to use a schooling whip effectively a handful of times in a session than nag with the leg constantly.

So, if the horse doesn't go off a flexion of your calf muscle, immediately back it up and when the horse moves forward, immediately reward with a giving hand a a rub on the wither and even a "good girl". Even if the horse goes off in trot or canter...let them do it, still reward them and bring them back after 6-8 strides. We don't want to pull them straight back. This is very basic stuff. We are teaching the horse to go off light aids, so anything forward that they give should be rewarded. If they give us forward and we pull them straight back because we want walk and they gave trot, we are, in effect, punishing the forward movement that we want from them. You'll have a confused horse and be back at square one.

So...we make it black and white for them. They go forward off a light aid and if they decide they can't be bothered, you back it up in no uncertain terms. Get the walk, reward it. Get the halt, reward it. Keep the leg on the horses side throughout the walk, but keep it quiet.
I find with many horses that if you give a leg aid and then take the leg away when they move forward, you can create a horse that is overly sensitive to the leg. That can be just as difficult to ride as a horse that is numb to the leg.

What we want to do is create a harmonious balance. I get everyone I teach to do this and as I said, I do it myself every time I ride.
I will do all the normal warm up exercises of circles, serpentines, figure of eights, lateral work on circles and straight lines. I just do it all taking no more than 9 strides at a time. I also mix that up. So I'll do a couple of walks that are 9 strides, then a couple of walks that are 3 or 4 strides. Same with the halts. I'll do a couple of halts that are 2 seconds and a couple that are 5 or 8 seconds and keep mixing it up.

If you do this lightly and back up your leg effectively, you should have a horse that is light, responsive and waiting for your next command. You should be able to set up for a leg yield, give the aid once and the horse remain in the movement until you ask it to go straight again.

After 3-4 minutes of this in walk, which is usually all it takes, you can do the same in trot, doing to start with trot-walk-trot transitions, then trot-halt-trot transitions. Keep rewarding, keep the contact kind and I don't put any emphasis on where the head is in this work. This is about setting up for what is to come, not expecting to have it straight away.

When you feel the horse is responsive and listening to you, listen back....let the horse tell you when it is ready to do more work. All horses are different, so if your horse takes 20 minutes to be ready for real work, so be it. If it is ready after 10 minutes, so be it.

I always like to have a break in a session. So, if I do 20 minutes warm up which is what my TB likes, I'll then do 10 minutes work, 3 minutes of repeating the initial walk-halt-walk exercise, but with much longer walks and then 10-15 minutes of work again before colling down.

I hope all of that made sense. I am of the opinion that I like to have a horse decide for itself to work with me, not be forced into working for me. That doesn't mean they should get an easy ride...unless it is a baby, they know what the aids are so you can be demanding that they listen properly...but when they do, reward pays dividends later in the session.

Can I advise caution - I train my horses to be this light off the leg, because that's how I like them as it gives me a lot to work with in schooling. BUT, it's not for everyone. My youngster is naturally very dead to the leg and I have trained him in the first few months of his education to go off the tense of a leg muscle, which although ideal for me, if someone was to get on him who didn't have such light legs, or, god forbid, was carrying a whip they would get mad running and probably bucking. Furthermore, if my horse was intended for a jumping career I probably would not have taught him to be so sharp, because you can't always be as careful with your leg around a course of jumps and having a horse that is that sharp can be a real pain in the bum.

There's nothing wrong with making your horse sharper off the leg, but you have to be realistic as to how light an aid you actually want it to go off and use that as the aid in the training.

 

[Caol Ila]

On a greenie, I'd agree. I ride horses for other people as well and will not be getting them sharp as that, as their riders are on the green side and would not want their horses shooting off at a whisper. My horse, however, has attained schoolmaster status and always adjusts to the expectations/skill level (mainly the latter) of the rider anyway.

During our ride yesterday, she had been extremely light and forward and was doing some quality work. Later in the session, I ended up playing the "horse swap" game with another livery. This lassie couldn't get my horse out of a riding school plod. When I got back on her, she resumed being as sharp and light as she was before we swapped horses.

 

[DabDab]

On a greenie, I'd agree. My horse has attained schoolmaster status and adjusts to the expectations/skill level (mainly the latter) of the rider anyway.

During our ride yesterday, she had been extremely light and forward and was doing some quality work. Later in the session, I ended up playing the "horse swap" game with another livery. This lassie couldn't get my horse out of a riding school plod. When I got back on her, she resumed being as sharp and light as she was before we swapped horses.

Yes CI, yours is a somewhat different kettle of fish. BTW, the relationship between you and her sounds really sweet

 

[_GG_]

Can I advise caution - I train my horses to be this light off the leg, because that's how I like them as it gives me a lot to work with in schooling. BUT, it's not for everyone. My youngster is naturally very dead to the leg and I have trained him in the first few months of his education to go off the tense of a leg muscle, which although ideal for me, if someone was to get on him who didn't have such light legs, or, god forbid, was carrying a whip they would get mad running and probably bucking. Furthermore, if my horse was intended for a jumping career I probably would not have taught him to be so sharp, because you can't always be as careful with your leg around a course of jumps and having a horse that is that sharp can be a real pain in the bum.

There's nothing wrong with making your horse sharper off the leg, but you have to be realistic as to how light an aid you actually want it to go off and use that as the aid in the training.

Oh I quite agree....hence this comment being in my post...
"
I find with many horses that if you give a leg aid and then take the leg away when they move forward, you can create a horse that is overly sensitive to the leg. That can be just as difficult to ride as a horse that is numb to the leg.

What we want to do is create a harmonious balance"

Anyone can ride my girls, they don't get het up by stronger legs, in fact, they get lazy as they don't go forward nicely unless I ride lightly. I have seen horses though that are taught to be sharp and just yield to leg pressure and that can create the problems you mention.

I don't use this exercise to create a sharp horse. I use it to create a responsive horse. As I have mentioned in another thread on the forum...horses that don't accept the leg, are too sensitive to it or fear it can be dangerous.

In regard to other people riding a horse that has been trained a certain way, I wouldn't imagine many owners would just let someone get on and do what they want.

 

[_GG_]

Yes CI, yours is a somewhat different kettle of fish. BTW, the relationship between you and her sounds really sweet

Yes....sounds like a very sweet partnership

 

[chestnut cob]

During our ride yesterday, she had been extremely light and forward and was doing some quality work. Later in the session, I ended up playing the "horse swap" game with another livery. This lassie couldn't get my horse out of a riding school plod. When I got back on her, she resumed being as sharp and light as she was before we swapped horses.

I had this with my last horse. He wasn't the most forward going horse and had arthritis, so could be stiff sometimes (different matter out hunting, when even aged 18, he still thought he should be right at the front all day...). I knew how to ride him forwards but it was a different story with another rider. He was great with my old YO - she is v no-nonsense and a tall, strong rider with long legs so he went forwards easily for her. However, I remember one friend getting on and he refused to go forwards at all, barely even got out of walk. He also detested an instructor I had for a while - we got good results when she was teaching me but he would not go forwards or round for her at all, when she rode. Sometimes I think they get used to a particular person or like a certain style of riding, and they don't respond to anything else. Mine was also v picky about the people he liked - he was old and wily, and knew exactly how to get out of work so if he decided he didn't like you, that's all there was to it. You'd just as well shout at a brick wall!

With OP's horse TBH I'd just leave her be. It sounds like she becomes forward once she's warmed up and maybe at 20, she has some stiffness that needs to be worked through. For that 20 mins, I'd take her for a little hack if possible, warm up those muscles and see if she's better after that.

 

[DabDab]

Oh I quite agree....hence this comment being in my post...
"
I find with many horses that if you give a leg aid and then take the leg away when they move forward, you can create a horse that is overly sensitive to the leg. That can be just as difficult to ride as a horse that is numb to the leg.

What we want to do is create a harmonious balance"

Anyone can ride my girls, they don't get het up by stronger legs, in fact, they get lazy as they don't go forward nicely unless I ride lightly. I have seen horses though that are taught to be sharp and just yield to leg pressure and that can create the problems you mention.

I don't use this exercise to create a sharp horse. I use it to create a responsive horse. As I have mentioned in another thread on the forum...horses that don't accept the leg, are too sensitive to it or fear it can be dangerous.

In regard to other people riding a horse that has been trained a certain way, I wouldn't imagine many owners would just let someone get on and do what they want.

The only reason I made the point was that there were people who were going to go and try it and there is a huge gap between the written word and the practical application. Also, fwiw, I think my definition of sharp differs from yours somewhat - when I say sharp I mean responsive, not hot as hell.

 

[_GG_]

The only reason I made the point was that they were going to go and try it and there is a huge gap between the written word and the practical application. Also, fwiw, I think my definition of sharp differs from yours somewhat - when I say sharp I mean responsive, not hot as hell.

Ah, always the problem with written word and interpretation.
I do agree with you and surprise myself as I normally add a caveat if I give any schooling exercises when not in person, but for some reason didn't on this thread.

 

[Caol Ila]

She's very wised up and gives people what they need. I love teaching on her. I wouldn't say she tries to get out of work, but she won't work against you, if you know what I mean. If you are braced in your hands, your back, your seat, and make it hard work for her to go because she has to push through you being in her way, she just says, "Meh, can't be arsed." But she loves good riding along classical lines. Given that I trained her, I am not sure where she got that idea, but somehow figured it out in spite of me bumbling along the way. But if Carl Hester rode her, I am sure she would move in to his stable. LOL. I think that's why she was so appreciative of GG's exercise. "That's how it's supposed to work, mum!"

And thanks guys. She is a fantastic horse.

 

[_GG_]

She's very wised up and gives people what they need. I love teaching on her. I wouldn't say she tries to get out of work, but she won't work against you, if you know what I mean. If you are braced in your hands, your back, your seat, and make it hard work for her to go because she has to push through you being in her way, she just says, "Meh, can't be arsed." But she loves good riding along classical lines. Given that I trained her, I am not sure where she got that idea, but somehow figured it out in spite of me bumbling along the way. But if Carl Hester rode her, I am sure she would move in to his stable. LOL. I think that's why she was so appreciative of GG's exercise. "That's how it's supposed to work, mum!"

And thanks guys. She is a fantastic horse.

If you trained her CI....you clearly did a very good job

 

[HBrae2]

Ah, always the problem with written word and interpretation.
I do agree with you and surprise myself as I normally add a caveat if I give any schooling exercises when not in person, but for some reason didn't on this thread.

Shame you're in Wiltshire GG, otherwise you could come out and help me with my impulsion (or lack of....) You have very good methods!
Incidentaly, with my 20 year old you just have to "think" forward and she'll respond, she has alway been very sensitive and is still what I would describe as sharp. It's the younger one who likes to take life slowly.

 

[_GG_]

Shame you're in Wiltshire GG, otherwise you could come out and help me with my impulsion (or lack of....) You have very good methods!
Incidentaly, with my 20 year old you just have to "think" forward and she'll respond, she has alway been very sensitive and is still what I would describe as sharp. It's the younger one who likes to take life slowly.

Where are you? I am regularly in different parts of the country. Would be happy to help if I can.

 

[HBrae2]

North of Sotland, about as far away as possible from everyone!

I had a private lesson with Richard Maxwell quite recently and his method was very simiar to yours (except it involved a bit of rope rather than a schooling whip). It works, until I put the rope down and then he returns to his normal "once you ask me three times I'll start thinking about doing it", so the message doesn't sink in. He knows if I don't have a rope in my hand he doesn't have to move forward off my leg. If I have the rope then he does. Obviously I'm not allowed to carry a rope in a dressage test but you are allowed to carry a stick so that might be a plan..... I think I might struggle with timing a bit though to get a response to the aid within the pace which is what I really need to improve!

 

[Caol Ila]

Maybe GG can do a tour of Scotland someday, as I am about 20 miles outside of Glasgow.

 

[ihatework]

North of Sotland, about as far away as possible from everyone!

I had a private lesson with Richard Maxwell quite recently and his method was very simiar to yours (except it involved a bit of rope rather than a schooling whip). It works, until I put the rope down and then he returns to his normal "once you ask me three times I'll start thinking about doing it", so the message doesn't sink in. He knows if I don't have a rope in my hand he doesn't have to move forward off my leg. If I have the rope then he does. Obviously I'm not allowed to carry a rope in a dressage test but you are allowed to carry a stick so that might be a plan..... I think I might struggle with timing a bit though to get a response to the aid within the pace which is what I really need to improve!

In that case it is likely you have trained your horse to the rope rather than to the leg. See my above comment re training to whip. It's VERY easily done.

 

[DabDab]

In that case it is likely you have trained your horse to the rope rather than to the leg. See my above comment re training to whip. It's VERY easily done.

This. As for instructors - this is not a GG invented method, any dressage rider worth their salt will be able to teach a horse to go without kicking every stride. Maybe you can ask about a bit or try a clinic?

 

[HBrae2]

In that case it is likely you have trained your horse to the rope rather than to the leg. See my above comment re training to whip. It's VERY easily done.

Yes I expect so! I'm not very good at these things - 15 + years of a very forward going one and I'm useless with the more chilled out type! Love him to bits though, he's totally safe and never nasty or nappy - just likes to conserve enegy

 

[3Beasties]

Would like to thank GG for her post yesterday, I tried her recommended method with my mare this morning and got a great result. I was so chuffed with her that I only rode for 15 mins before turning her back out!

 

[_GG_]

In that case it is likely you have trained your horse to the rope rather than to the leg. See my above comment re training to whip. It's VERY easily done.

Yep...if you're having to back up the leg each time, there's a deeper issue.

This. As for instructors - this is not a GG invented method, any dressage rider worth their salt will be able to teach a horse to go without kicking every stride. Maybe you can ask about a bit or try a clinic?

Yep...I didn't make it up, I learned it as many many others have and most are better than me.

I do visit Scotland once or twice a year so will keep you both in mind.

Just for the record...I am fully insured to teach, not qualified as don't actually agree with some of the methods needed to gain qualifications and I don't teach for money...I never take it, nor do I take even fuel money so if I ever offer to help, it is just that...not a way of trying to make money.

 

[_GG_]

Would like to thank GG for her post yesterday, I tried her recommended method with my mare this morning and got a great result. I was so chuffed with her that I only rode for 15 mins before turning her back out!

Awesome....and guess what's in the oven???

 

[HBrae2]

Yep...if you're having to back up the leg each time, there's a deeper issue.

If I am holding the rope than I only need to use it once. Once I've used it once then he goes forward of the same initial light leg as I first applied for the whole schooling session. It's just that the next day when I get on I have to do it again (just the once again). If I'm not holding the rope then I can't use it the first time to then get the subsequent forwardness if that makes sense. So I expect it will be the same with a stick, I'll have to use it for my 1st transition and then wont need to again for that session.

 

[_GG_]

Yep...if you're having to back up the leg each time, there's a deeper issue.

If I am holding the rope than I only need to use it once. Once I've used it once then he goes forward of the same initial light leg as I first applied for the whole schooling session. It's just that the next day when I get on I have to do it again (just the once again). If I'm not holding the rope then I can't use it the first time to then get the subsequent forwardness if that makes sense. So I expect it will be the same with a stick, I'll have to use it for my 1st transition and then wont need to again for that session.

So, it's a deeper issue. He is only respectful of your aids when you have a means to back it up. Like a horse that is bargy on the ground until you pick up a stick.

It's not that you're doing anything wrong...just that perhaps the partnership needs a little realignment in your favour

 

[0310Star]

_GG_ I tried your method last night on my horse and WOW! She picked up the idea very quickly and it really did work! She was very dead to the leg when I got her 3 years ago, much better now but I still really struggle getting her to be forward off of the leg. I also have become a bit of a leg "nagger" myself with her which I really dont want to be. I read your post and thought it could be quite a helpful tip for us to use and I really think it will help us a huge amount!
I just wanted to say what a great bit of advice you have given!

I just wanted to clarify, I used this method to try and get her more forwrad off of the leg from a halt but as I said my horse can be difficult to get her to be forward in her stride. Would I use the same method to up the forwardness/speed within the gait?
I am hoping that will make sense!

 

[ihatework]

Another one to try is 'scarey legs'

Similar thought process but minus whip.

Light aid (ignored) immediately backed up by one whopping leg aid. Not your run of the mill flappy pony club nag - you want to be perched on your seat bones with your entire length of leg away from saddle, and bam! For a really backwards neddy you want to aim for a 0-60 down the length of the arena type response!!

You ultimate goal is the horse gets bottom in gear when he feels you just start to open and lift you thigh from the saddle!

Caveat being that the horse is sufficiently balanced and educated enough to understand a leg aid.

 

[_GG_]

_GG_ I tried your method last night on my horse and WOW! She picked up the idea very quickly and it really did work! She was very dead to the leg when I got her 3 years ago, much better now but I still really struggle getting her to be forward off of the leg. I also have become a bit of a leg "nagger" myself with her which I really dont want to be. I read your post and thought it could be quite a helpful tip for us to use and I really think it will help us a huge amount!
I just wanted to say what a great bit of advice you have given!

I just wanted to clarify, I used this method to try and get her more forwrad off of the leg from a halt but as I said my horse can be difficult to get her to be forward in her stride. Would I use the same method to up the forwardness/speed within the gait?
I am hoping that will make sense!

Good to hear you had a good session. I like to think of the leg as never being off the horse, but just being quiet. In short, yes, I would use the same method when in a gait to ask for more...in the beginning, allowing it with the hand so they are never repressed in their acceptance of your question. Eventually, the goal is that you put the horse in a particular gait, tempo and the horse stays there until you ask it for something else :_

Another one to try is 'scarey legs'

Similar thought process but minus whip.

Light aid (ignored) immediately backed up by one whopping leg aid. Not your run of the mill flappy pony club nag - you want to be perched on your seat bones with your entire length of leg away from saddle, and bam! For a really backwards neddy you want to aim for a 0-60 down the length of the arena type response!!

You ultimate goal is the horse gets bottom in gear when he feels you just start to open and lift you thigh from the saddle!

Caveat being that the horse is sufficiently balanced and educated enough to understand a leg aid.

Haha....yes, especially good if you forget your whip, lol. Only other caveat I would add and why I don't personally use this unless I did forget my whip is that, I would not want to teach a horse to go just because you lift your legs away from their side.
I like to be able to change my stirrups or do my girth up when not galloping down the arena

But yes, essentially the same principal. It's about being nice to the horse, making it clear what we want. Much nicer than constant heels in sides x

 

[0310Star]

Good to hear you had a good session. I like to think of the leg as never being off the horse, but just being quiet. In short, yes, I would use the same method when in a gait to ask for more...in the beginning, allowing it with the hand so they are never repressed in their acceptance of your question. Eventually, the goal is that you put the horse in a particular gait, tempo and the horse stays there until you ask it for something else :_

Ok I see what you mean! So whilst we are walking along, if I want more impulsion/speed I flex my calf and if I don't get any response a quick flick of the whip and as soon as she goes forward I reward?
Sorry to sound numpty, I just really think this will help myself and my horse so I dont want to be doing it wrong
It is difficult for me to go up a gait at the moment as we are on clay ground (also known as concrete right now ) and our arena is just too deep to school in at the moment so I am having to hack in mainly walk (unless we touch a nice grassy patch of course) at the moment just to keep the fitness up So I think this would also be a good way to improve ourselves whilst not being able to do much else!

 

[_GG_]

Ok I see what you mean! So whilst we are walking along, if I want more impulsion/speed I flex my calf and if I don't get any response a quick flick of the whip and as soon as she goes forward I reward?
Sorry to sound numpty, I just really think this will help myself and my horse so I dont want to be doing it wrong
It is difficult for me to go up a gait at the moment as we are on clay ground (also known as concrete right now ) and our arena is just too deep to school in at the moment so I am having to hack in mainly walk (unless we touch a nice grassy patch of course) at the moment just to keep the fitness up So I think this would also be a good way to improve ourselves whilst not being able to do much else!

Basically yes, and if you are limited to hacking....why not try bringing in some lateral work? You can do shoulder in and leg yield to start with, keeping it simple. I really like doing things like that on the road. Not schooling as such, but practising and giving the horse a job to do

 

[0310Star]

That is great idea _GG_ but being that I cannot currently have lessons I am not too confident teaching my horse lateral moves I think she probably would have done them in the past (was told she did Elem dressage, but its clear that since then assuming there was an owner between myself and the dressage, she was let to get away with her speed, her carriage of dragging herself along with her fronts, she went where she wanted, completely dead to the leg which we assume was overuse of spurs etc) so you could say we have had to start everything again which is proving quite some battle!

I dont really know enough myself to re-teach her/attempt the lateral moves I dont think...