Girl Hitting Grey Pony

I can't post screenshots off my phone but if you go to the 'RSPCA (England & Wales)' Facebook page they have issued a statement.

The long and short of it is that the abusers are lying and the RSPCA haven't even visited them yet.

And I took amymay's comment to mean that they're obviously thick as two short planks and ignorant too.
 
Actually, I can post screenshots from my phone!

RawwIYS.jpg
 
southerncomfort said:
People on FB are saying that the pony HAS been taken away. Some are saying it was taken by the owners and some think it was seized by the RSPCA.
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I went onto the mothers FB page - she tagged someone on her status saying they still had all of their ponies apart from the one X had broken contract and taken back - breaking her daughters heart.

I went onto that persons Facebook page, and she confirms the pony in the video is a pony she sold to them as a companion called Emry.

Putting two and two together I would presume that is the pony she has taken back? I could be wrong.

Cortez said:
Actually there is a sort of guideline for using the whip to correct;

Never more than 2 seconds after the behaviour.
Never more than 3 times.
Never in anger.

This was taught to me in Germany by a very eminent trainer, and is also found in some of the old classical texts. I am a fairly robust trainer and would not shy away from using a good whack when called for, but this girl is plainly just taking her frustration out on the pony and has totally crossed the line. It is abuse and she and her parents should be prosecuted for same. Vile.
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This, completely.

The differance between an "oi don't drag me to grass" and what this girl has done is that it is done in sheer anger. Watching this reminds me of a child throwing a tantrum.

The fact that her parents seem to condone this behaviour (the father by joining in with kicking the pony), and the disgusting language that comes out of that girls mouth onto social media says alot really.
 
I don't personally think that the use of a whip is a grey area...

I used to get a smack as a kid when I had been naughty, not a wallop, not around the head and not repeatedly. Hard enough that I would not do it again and immediate enough that I knew why; I would regard equine discipline in the same way.

The video this thread is about would be akin to my mum finding a glass of water I spilt 5 hours ago, finding me and beating me repeatedly and senselessly with a stick. Completely incomparable imo.
 
The child is clearly evil and both parents, siblings and the child should be sterilised to prevent them breeding any more evil off-spring like her.
 
I'm not saying she should get death threats or that it's OK for people to turn up at their door with iron bars, but what she did was unacceptable and she needs to be punished through the law. Her claims that she only hit the pony "once or twice," as well as her father claiming he only "put his foot out" to protect himself, is a load of old b******s.

Had she apologised from the start, I doubt the witch hunt against her would have reached the epic proportion that it has.

Breaking in horses needs to be carried out with both understanding and compassion and she lacks both in equal measure.
 
StarcatcherWilliam said:
English may not be a first language to many Welsh people, but it doesn't make us foreigners. Anyway, the whole language debate has absolutely no bearing on what happened to the poor pony, but I'm just a bit amazed that the issue was brought up at all!
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No it doesn't which is why i am wondering why it was brought up in the first place. Not having English as a first language is not an excuse for this so why it was mentioned I have no idea. I didnt know what nationality the person was either as not on facebook and i am not willing to watch the video. Not going to watch someone beat up a horse like how it's being described.

Have they actually been charged yet? Surely it can't take this long when they have video evidence of it happening.
 
whats really annoying me is that there is clear video evidence of what she did, whipping the pony full force around 13 times, you can see and hear it and she still denys it, saying that she gave it one or two tapps.
 
Oh FFS. The comment was made because of her poor grammar. I suspect the OP made the mistake of thinking she was English. It was not intended as a derogatory remark against the Welsh and it's tiresome seeing the thread constantly being dragged off topic by posters who want to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Having lived in Wales, I was frequently referred to as a "foreigner" and my family experienced a lot of jingoism. My gorgeous sister was pushed down a flight of stairs, in which she broke her arm, by a Welsh lad who called her an "English pig" and told her to "**** off back to England." I also can't recall of any time where English people were petrol bombing the homes of Welsh folk living in England (how quickly people forget...) nor have we English ever held a "keep England tidy, dump your rubbish in Wales" campaign (again, how quickly people forget...).

The long and short of it is that there are racist/nationalists and down right nasty oiks in both Wales and England. Neither side is exactly squeaky clean...no country is.

So can we go back to discussing the pony now being that is what this thread is actually about?
 
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VS - I'm Welsh born, through and through :D and live about 40 miles from the lovely young lady that this thread is about. And my comment was indeed made in a facetious manner, about her mother's inability to put a coherent sentence together.

Any way - back on track.

I'm gobsmacked that the pony remaibs in their care, and that the RSPCA are continuing to 'investigate'. When it's all there in black and white :(
 
Mrs Williams said they saddled the horse, called Emry, and Miss Morgan had sat atop him for around 10 minutes when things started go awry.

"There was no problem at all," Mrs Williams said. "Then as she jumped off him he got spooked. She smacked him once."


Read more at http://www.southwales-eveningpost.c...9865951-detail/story.html#oq8EF0AxlIm7MkAM.99


This comment is so totally wrong, taken from the paper, whether she sat on the pony for 10 mins or not is irrelevant she should not have been sitting on it tied up unable to move forward to cope with her weight, it was set up to fail, it looks as if she was getting on not off and I think set up to be videoed and put on facebook, why I have no idea but they probably thought it clever and are now surprised it has backfired, stupid people to think they can do this and not get condemned on social media.
 
Sadly the RSPCA have to dot every I and cross every t before taking a horse away. I once had to watch two ponies be returned to their owners who had come in so thin they could hardly stand. They were cared for for two years before it went to court. The ponies were returned due to things not having been done correctly, and it was horrifying. The knowledge they probably ended up looking just as bad a few years down the line if it took that long, has never left me.
 
be positive said:
Mrs Williams said they saddled the horse, called Emry, and Miss Morgan had sat atop him for around 10 minutes when things started go awry.

"There was no problem at all," Mrs Williams said. "Then as she jumped off him he got spooked. She smacked him once."


Read more at http://www.southwales-eveningpost.c...9865951-detail/story.html#oq8EF0AxlIm7MkAM.99


This comment is so totally wrong, taken from the paper, whether she sat on the pony for 10 mins or not is irrelevant she should not have been sitting on it tied up unable to move forward to cope with her weight, it was set up to fail, it looks as if she was getting on not off and I think set up to be videoed and put on facebook, why I have no idea but they probably thought it clever and are now surprised it has backfired, stupid people to think they can do this and not get condemned on social media.
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That article is frankly ridiculous. What on earth is the *point* of claiming that she only hit the pony once or twice when the video is there on the internet for everyone to see?? Does she really think anyone who has seen the video will believe her?! What an utter, absolute moron.
 
Can anyone get the video in the South Wales evening post to work....it says it's been edited. I was wondering how much, one hit?
 
I will never understand how anyone could be this horrid to an animal. I had to give my mare a short, sharp smack through her rug the other morning because she was being a right tart and my usual growly voice wasnt working. I still feel bad about this. My dog lunged at the cat the other night, the biggest no no for her, and she got a right whack with a empty fizzy bottle on the bum, and I instantly felt horrid, even though she 'deserved' it. There is such a massive difference between discipline and abuse, there is no fine line. I once watched a girl take out whatever anger she had on her pony, and I actually made her cry because after watching her hit that poor horse five or six times I said to her 'you hit that horse again and I'll get off mine and hit you'. She's never done it again.
 
The article is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even understand what reporter would want to take their side on this after seeing that video!! There was no saddle on the pony, so that comment is irrelevant because even if she'd sat on the pony with a saddle for 10 mins earlier, the video shows her sitting on it WITHOUT a saddle and it bucking because it's tied to a bl**dy wall and can't move!

There is clear evidence in the video that she didn't give it just 'one or two' smacks, it was a malicious attack of multiple lashings and the guy didn't have to 'defend' himself by kicking it as the pony didn't raise it's hooves to any of them and looked like all it wanted to do was get away from the girl beating it but it couldn't, being tied to the wall, so was swinging his bum away as that's all he could do :(

I just can't believe anyone put that article together... I hope they didn't get any money out of it!
 
Out of curiosity- does anyone know whether they have to prove intent in this sort of case, were it brought to court? (Not that they couldn't in this one- she walks away for a mo and comes back for more, intention is clear there!).
 
"Unnecessary suffering can be caused in one of two ways; either by taking action which causes unnecessary suffering, or by failing to take steps to prevent unnecessary suffering. The infliction of pain, even if extreme, is not in itself sufficient to constitute unnecessary suffering, as the pain may be caused for beneficial reasons such as in surgery or other medical treatment. Therefore, consideration must be given to whether the pain or suffering was necessary.
The courts will be able to take a number of factors into consideration in determining whether suffering is unnecessary. These include whether the suffering could reasonably have been avoided or reduced; compliance with any relevant enactment, licence or code of practice issued on a statutory basis; the purpose of the conduct; the proportionality of the suffering to the purpose; and whether the conduct was that of a reasonably competent and humane person.
Suffering includes mental as well as physical and suffering. Thus it is an offence to unnecessarily infuriate or terrify a protected animal as well as cause physical pain. A police horse on riot control duty may be subject to physical and mental suffering, but that suffering would normally not be considered to be unnecessary as using a horse in such a situation is for a legitimate purpose, i.e. protecting people or property.
It is an offence for any person, by an act, to cause unnecessary (physical or mental) suffering to a protected animal where the person committing the act knew or ought reasonably to have known, that the act would cause, or would be likely to cause, suffering. In addition, where a person is responsible for an animal, an offence would be committed if unnecessary suffering was caused to the animal by them failing to take some action, where that person knew or ought reasonably to have known that the omission would cause, or would be likely to cause, suffering. It is not necessary to show that the person actually knew that their act or omission would cause suffering, but only that they ought to have known.
It should be noted that a person only commits an offence of causing unnecessary suffering by omitting to take some action, if that person is responsible for the animal. Thus a person does not commit an offence by failing to feed a feral cat or pony if that person is not responsible for the animal.
The destruction of an animal in an appropriate and humane manner is not unnecessary suffering. However, destruction must not cause suffering over and above that necessary. In the vast majority of cases protected animals will be destroyed by a qualified and trained person, usually a vet. However, emergency situations arise such as mercy killing at roadsides, where there is no reasonable alternative to destroying an animal. Nevertheless, even in these emergency situations, the animal must be destroyed in an appropriate and humane manner. The term "appropriate and humane" is not defined in the Act, and is for the courts to interpret having regard to all the circumstances of the case."

Seems to be 'knew' or 'ought reasonably to have known'
 
VikingSong said:
Oh FFS. The comment was made because of her poor grammar.
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But her grammar wasn't poor by normal standards! If I had to decide whether English was the first language of the message's author or not, I would say it was. Her using the word "ain't" just strengthens that belief. That's all I was saying.

I suspect the OP made the mistake of thinking she was English. It was not intended as a derogatory remark against the Welsh and it's tiresome seeing the thread constantly being dragged off topic by posters who want to make a mountain out of a molehill.
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I assumed she was English. When I wrote what I wrote, having not read all the previous posts, I had no idea a Welsh person was involved. In any case, I wouldn't call Welsh people foreigners any more than I (an English-born person living in Scotland) would call Scots foreigners. We're all British, and almost all of us speak British English to a pretty good standard. FWIW, I dislike nationalism and despise jingoism.

So can we go back to discussing the pony now being that is what this thread is actually about?
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Apparently not. ;) But we can try...
 
emmad96 said:
There is such a massive difference between discipline and abuse, there is no fine line.
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I appreciate the point you are making, but consider this... I assume most of us will accept that hitting a horse hard once immediately after some behaviour has occurred that you want to punish (to make it less likely to happen again) can be considered as 'discipline', whereas hitting a horse hard once after one minute has elapsed following the offending behaviour is abusive (because the horse cannot possibly know what it is being punished for). At what point in time between immediately and a minute does the massive difference occur? I personally would consider any punisher administered after 2 seconds to fairly rapidly become unfair, cruel, ineffective and abusive, so that by 5 seconds we are already in the abusive category. Other people might place the crossover point earlier or later. What is clear is that, when we consider the timing of punishment, there is a grey area or fine line.

Of course, there are other ways in which an intended punishment could be abusive - e.g. unnecessarily severe, prolonged, injurious, done purely out of malice, etc.
 
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