Girl killed by pit bull terrier

[piebaldsparkle]

The dog breed has been confirmed as a PIT BULL TERRIER. The uncle could now faces charges as well. Makes you wonder if the parents/grandmother also knew the dog was a Pit bull, as in my mind this makes them as responsible for this tragic accident.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Staffs are lovely, nothing like PBT. Every Staff I have met has been a happy, bouncy and perhaps if anything over friendly.

 

[Malibu]

it makes me sooooooooooooooo angry, i ahve grown up with dogs, photos of me in crates with dogs, even got locked in with two stud dogs in back of car in crate as fire department came out to unlock crate, anyway my point is these dosg i grew up were socialised!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they were familiar with other dogs, people, childrens unpredictable behaviour!

its the owners fault!!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhh, if they dont now how to train the animal then they should not have it! it was warned before and yet they alow the dog with the child and the child with the dog!

i have been around dogs forever, judge them , show them etc and i understand that the dogs i go over, checking teeth in ring that dont bite me etc are socialised and happy not scared but i have had a few bites and those are the dogs that are not treated propaly with corrrect training etc. lisences should be needed for ANY DOG!

 

[prose]

What a terrible tragedy. Does anyone know the circumstances i.e. was the dog left alone with the child?

I live in the States and come into contact with Pit Bulls daily (they're the fourth most popular dog in NYC). They aren't a breed, as such, which is where some of the problems arise.

Contrary to what the earlier poster said about Staffs and Pits, they are very similar. They come from the same breeding pool, as does my Boston Terrier. Most Pits I've met -- at least the ones with responsible owners -- are the biggest mushes, very devoted to their owners, good with kids etc. Admittedly, some of them dislike other dogs (usually the overbred females rescued from fighting rings) but they are usually much more welcoming of strangers and openly friendly toward them than, say, Shepherds.

I volunteer for a rescue and the best dog we ever had in was a 90lb Pit Bull, called Seymour, who used to curl up on my knee and back down to any dog -- even a Pomeranian!

 

[jackie36]

its the owners fault!!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhh, if they dont now how to train the animal then they should not have it! it was warned before and yet they alow the dog with the child and the child with the dog!

trouble is (excuse the french) these type of people could'nt give a toss about training ect.

also the only people that are going to suffer are responsible bull breed owners, theres bound to be some backlash

.

xx

 

[Malibu]

yes i agree jackie, bad publicity for the breed but to be honest the breeder of thses animals dont really breed to sell but to show, we breed to continue lines and for showing and for pet homes but we dont have lots of litters etc and by no means a puppy farmer!!!

lisence is def the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no other way, background on possible owners, and living area for dog, area, occupation etc as this can determine alot. it will decrease the amount of dogs in uk, we will know who has dog and how has not (well that is the idea) but know more than now! also dogs should be microchipped, i think training cannot be inforced as alot dont care but the lisence and microchip will detremine who can own dog and therefore the people owning dogs will care about training etc, if that makes sense??

 

[meandmyself]

How awful!

Yes, bring back dog licenses!! My own dog is a terrier, and he's always been a little hyper, and can be snappy at times. However, I NEVER leave him alone with kids; I wouldn't dream of leaving any dog alone with a child!

 

[Tia]

Bad publicity for the breed? Did the breed have any good publicity? Not as far as I am aware which is why Pit Bulls were banned from the UK. You are not allowed to breed Pit Bulls anymore in the UK as they are governed by the Dangerous Dogs Act.

Where did it say that the child was left alone with the dog? I cannot fathom people who would choose to keep a fighting dog in a family house. Very tragic.

 

[jackie36]

i meant bull breeds are going to get bad press not 'pit bulls'. there are many other bull breeds, but they'll all be grouped together, as we see

 

[WelshRareBit]

Sorry but its ALL the adults fault. The breed is inconsequencial as I used to have a mongrel who would bite if he wanted to.

We'll never know the ins and outs but since it happened at 4.30am I suspect the little girl woke up and startled the dog going downstairs - maybe she was even meddling with him and antagonising him.

Whatever the reason its a sad death of both girl and dog and the parents/family should be bloody ashamed of themselves.

Poor PBT and all 'dangerous' dogs, they dont need this, more bad press and persecuted by most...people need to realise its PEOPLE who are to blame and never dogs, we are of higher intelligence (supposedly) and should know better.

I say its the bloody family should have been PTS and the dog should have got a chance to live with a family with a brain cell.

Grr sorry, but as you can tell I really love dogs and HATE stupid people!

 

[Benjamin]

[ QUOTE ]
Staffs are lovely, nothing like PBT. Every Staff I have met has been a happy, bouncy and perhaps if anything over friendly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every PBT I have met has been happy bouncy and friendly!

 

[WelshRareBit]

Quite!

 

[Puppy]

Welshrarebit, please can you make your signature smalller. It makes it very difficult to read threads that you post on when it is so bit. The recommended size by admin is 575 x 100. Thank you

 

[Sooty]

That is a bit of an oversimplification. Yes, ultimately people are to blame for breeding dogs to fight then housing an unsuitable type as a pet. The PBT is bred for a purpose, and it is highly unwise to think that with careful handling you can overcome generations of genetic input. Certain breeds have certain characteristics, which is why collies make good sheep dogs and Labradors make good retrievers - they are bred for a purpose. Exactly the same thing has happened with the PBT. It may well be possible to train a Lab to be a sheep dog, and it may well be possible to train a PBT to be a pet, but why bother when there are more suitable dogs out there? The Dangerous Dogs Act may well be a flawed piece of legislation, but it was put in place to try and avoid exactly the tragedy that happened with this little girl and her grandmother - someone thinking a PBT makes a pet. It doesn't.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Completely agree Sooty - couldn't put it better myself.

 

[siennamum]

I think the legislation regarding PBT is fair, they are different on the whole to Staffies or English bulls. Although having said that the only ones I've met are absolute sweehearts.
You're also right that animals have generations of selective breeding, it's this which makes bull terriers such good pets.
They have been bred to attack other dogs, not people. They have been bred to have a low pain threshold and so can endure being poken in the eye and having children hanging off their ears etc. with no complaint, they are bred in short to be extremely tolerant and have a very long fuse.
They have differences in their endorphin levels, it means that they are much happier than most other breeds and much less likely to be bad tempered or to take a dislike to anyone. This also makes them ecstatically happy to see all people all the time.
Because they don't like other dogs they much prefer people, and will form incredibly strong and loyal bonds with their families and are generally wonderful with small children, as they love attention and don't consider any attention annoying.
In Germany and a couple of other Northern European countries there has been a wholesale slaughter of bull breeds, this is due to uninformed people making assumptions that these breeds are en masse dangerous, they are not. If a bull terriedbites you then it is likely to do more damage and because of their high pain threshold, they are harder to fight off. But you are far more likely to be bitten by a corgi, a poodle or a JRT.
The problem is unregulated breeders producing unsuitable animals, and selling them to the wrong people. It's not different breeds of dog.

 

[ecrozier]

I actually disagree slightly with that comment. I don't think you can generalise all PBT and other 'dangerous' dogs as unsuitable as pets. What about rotties? staffs? GSDs? SOME of them have been bred for fighting and therefore SOME would be harder to keep as pets and some completely unsuitable. But not ALL.
I definately think that in this case part of the blame, if not all of it, must lie with the family, as they KNEW the dog had a history of agression.
Now I have a rottie, who is the softest, most affectionate creature ever, he was attacked in the summer and chased accross a showground by 3 jack russells, a shi-tzu and a poodle (seriously, I wish I was joking

)
However, had he ever even shown his teeth to a person, let alone growled or gone to attack, he would NEVER be allowed anywhere near children again. As it is, I trust him, so he is allowed around kids but I do discourage them from playing too much, you just never know when a dog migt get carried away with a game.
But the difference is that I, and I am sure most of the people on this board whether they own pit bulls, staffs (who used to be known as the 'nanny-dog' because they were so good with kids), or any other breed, are responsible dog owners. I'm casting no aspertions on the parents/granny of the little girl as I believe the dog belonged to an uncle? Maybe they didn't know the history. But the owner certainly did and he really should be held accountable in some way.

 

[severnmiles]

Although I agree with that Sooty any dog can kill, Vicijp said her JRT took a Ewe, if it can kill that it can kill a child.

I was mauled by a collie in a school playground at 5y.o, luckily the yard was full of people, if it hadn't been I expect things could have been alot worse.

The bottom line is whether its bred to bait another animal (they were never bred to kill people) or round sheep, or guard a house a dog is a dog, it will always have killer instincts.

The question for me is not why did that guy have a PBT but why on earth was it in the same house as a 5y.o child especially when after the girl was mauled the grandmother had managed to put in in a run (which presumably had a kennel) outside, thats where it should have slept that night.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Don't think either myself or Sooty mentioned any other breeds of dogs.

Thought Rotties and GSD where breed to herd/guard sheep not for fighting (but stand to be corrected). Don't know much about Staffs (but all the ones I have met have been friendly). I fortunately have only met 2xPBTs, both were running loose and treatening other dogs and people alike.

I agree that the problem is irresponsible owners, but certain breeds are predisposed to being 'abused' by irresponsible people.

 

[severnmiles]

I agree with Emma C!

But also with you PS, a friend of a friend knew a chap who was on the wrong side of the law, he used to steal or get upto no good, run home and chain his PBT and a Doberman up outside his house in the front garden so the police couldn't go near the house, those dogs would have been encouraged to attack humans. I think the dogs posed a threat and the police should have had them pts. So yes, owners are to blame.

I know a staffy who although soft with people (you can tickle her belly until the cows come home!) she has attacked the dogs she lives with and the owner has paid out thousands in vets fees.

I don't think GSD's/Rotties/Dobes were bred to fight/bait another animal but they were bred to guard and in some cases attack so of course there is aggression there, and of course they are capable of killing a child like a PBT or any other dog for that matter.

 

[Mid]

"There are masses of staffie cross breds being raised in completely unsuitable environments, as there are rotties, mastiffs and other 'cool' breeds."

Saw a woman today with a big bulldog, a massive creature, and he was completely out of control. But then later I saw a homeless guy with a black dog, a sort of german shepherd type - It only had baler twine as the lead, but walking to heel perfectly, and even ignored the other dogs.

Just goes to show.

 

[Mid]

GSDs = Guarding herds and working with livestock
Doberman and Rottie = Guarding houses and properties
Staffy and PBT = Bullbaiting, Badger baiting, dog baiting and fighting in general.

 

[Mid]

Pitbulls and staffies are so different! Although I do like the appearance of a pitbull, I have never met a particularily friendly one, but staffies are so loving!

And I think they suit studded collars

 

[_Jazz_]

IMO one of the most predictable foul natured breeds is the Shar Pei
Admittedly I have only met 3 but all were ' approach with caution' and needed a tape muzzle applying before we could get near enough to put on a regular mikki muzzle. Even their owners said Good Luck before leaving :-(

Another IMO !! is that GSD are getting more snap happy and every Dobermann I have met have been 100% gorgeous, OK OK I am biased on that one !

I put the blame on some breeders and owners

 

[icemaiden113]

There are so many pit bulls out there that i am sure you wouldn't know the difference between them and a staff, the blus staffs are closely related to pit bulls!
The dogs are not always dangerous! The owners are.

 

[Malibu]

you cannot simply generalise against certain breeds, that is very obnoxious and one could then say they have had bad experiances with a certain race so there fore "all of that" race are bad etc. like us, dogs are individuals although we as people know what we "can" and "cannot" do, although some choose to brake law. Dogs do not and if it is scared or provoked "some dogs" will run away, lay down in submission, show aggression, bte, show warnning, growl etcetc!

But we cannot EVER EVER EVER blame the dog, it is instinct and its mind does not think like ours in general.

I think we as humans expect alot from animals, we ourselves as animals have had so much time to become "tame" so to speak but animals have not and it takes generations and years to change a breed through careful lines etc.

As we breed dogs, we can change a future puppy so to speak, by choosing a certain sire and tracing back generations of the sire, we can predict alot of the charateristics fo the litter but it takes years so banish a certain trait. So if one does choose to own a dog, one must know it can kill, it can destroy another animal etc so people socialise and train the dog so that it is used o certain scernarios and objects.
i agree with you, WRB, some people are soooooooooooooooo stupid and obnoxious, poor dog, although hopefully in abetter place!

 

[ecrozier]

Just a quick interjection....Mid, rotties are NOT bred to guard historically, they are descended from Roman cattle herding dogs from the region of Rottweil in ancient germany.
Have been used to guard because they are big, doesn't mean they are guarding dogs. The only thing my rottie has ever growled at and protected us from was a hot air balloon....he must be doing his job well though as we have never been attacked by a hot air balloon!

 

[debbielinder]

i live not far from were the incident happened and i have to say in recent years theres been a large increase in the amount of pitbulls around. infact while out hacking last week a yound pittbull tried to chase us down the road only for its owner to pull up in a car and drag it in! and about 4 months ago a friend who keeps her horse on our yard was out hacking in a similar area,when she was attacked by a pitbull she came off and her horse took off up the road with the dog hanging off its tail. the owner was arrested as he was exercising his dog at the time but 2 weeks later we were told by some of the owners neighbours he was back home and had the dog back its ridiculous

 

[rosita]

Poor dog my sodding foot. A child has been killed and the grandmother seriously injured. Don't give a bugger what sort of dog it was, it's better off dead. I love horses,dogs etc, but being a mother i do not understand the poor dog attitude...The child was killed.......poor little girl, poor parents. It is up to the authorities to apportion the blame as they see fit. Of course there are bad owners, but quite frankly there are inherently bad dogs too, as there are people.

 

[Onyxia]

I'm a mother too and dont see how this is the dogs fault.
Dogs react-they cant think their actions through the way we do.Whoever let a dog known to be agressive end up alone with a young child is at fault, not the dog.