Give and retake the reins.. or not !

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Hoof_Prints

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Would it be best to attempt give and retake of the reins in trot, and have my horse think "waheyy, gallop time" and shoot off (its a 50/50 chance!) or just not attempt and keep my horse level headed for the rest of the test? I'm doing prelim 13 and I have spent months practicing the give and retake, but he still sometimes thinks it's time to canter, and will be a lot more likely to whizz off when a excited at a show. Just wondering which would affect the marks more. I might try to give with one rein and half halt the other which is not ideal, but he can wind himself up easily and I don't want to upset him. He moves well and I think he will do a decent test when on the contact if I can get him fairly relaxed, so I don't want to ruin the rest of the test if it goes horribly wrong ! Or will the judge hate me and place me last for not attempting it at all :D

Advice much appreciated :)
 
I would do a feeble one and pretend you didn't know how to :) It's only a prelim, if you really think it will unsettle him then I would rather not do the movement properly and make sure the rest of the test was nice and relaxed.
 
You need to show you atleast attempt it as otherwise it will affects your marks before
I've done it before but obviously not good enough as comment was still something along the lines of need to show it more so I think you have to really exaggerate it
 
If you don't attempt the movement you are likey to score a big fat zero.....movement not performed/attempted. HOWEVER....if the horse goes on then to perform a fair test with you scoring 6,7 or 8 for all the following movements you will obviously do better than if you attempt the movement, get a 3 or 4 and then 5s for following movements as horse is now tense and geed up!

Only you can know which is best to do....crystal ball anyone?

PS A sneaky way to perform the movement is to give and retake with your inside rein whilst anchoring the outside firmly. You may get away with this to a degree with unaffiliated judges, especially if you turn your inside shoulder to the outside of the circle by looking out and almost asking for counter flexion! I am not recommending this, many of the dressage purists will be having heart attacks but having ridden many youngsters in their first dressage test whilst still raw and the main aim of the game was survival, this can work! :)

Good luck!
 
You could try just lifting the hands but maintaining your contact as opposed to actually giving. You're marks won't be great but at least it will look like you attempted the movement
 
gunnergundog said:
If you don't attempt the movement you are likey to score a big fat zero.....movement not performed/attempted. HOWEVER....if the horse goes on then to perform a fair test with you scoring 6,7 or 8 for all the following movements you will obviously do better than if you attempt the movement, get a 3 or 4 and then 5s for following movements as horse is now tense and geed up!

Only you can know which is best to do....crystal ball anyone?

PS A sneaky way to perform the movement is to give and retake with your inside rein whilst anchoring the outside firmly. You may get away with this to a degree with unaffiliated judges, especially if you turn your inside shoulder to the outside of the circle by looking out and almost asking for counter flexion! I am not recommending this, many of the dressage purists will be having heart attacks but having ridden many youngsters in their first dressage test whilst still raw and the main aim of the game was survival, this can work! :)

Good luck!
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Totally agree with this cheat !! Haha

That said i did a test on a young pony knowing we would either get canter or not & if we did we may not stop! Got the first 1 perfectly the 2nd 1 he didn't react then ran & frankly i wasn't going to ask again ! So did the canter movement in trot got a 0 but got 58% overall which i was amazed at because i thought i would get about 40 % !
We still got 4th as it was combined training & his sj was amazing :p

I'd judge it on how he feels when your riding the test :)
 
Great advice everyone, huge thanks ! It's annoying as if he was judged at home in his comfort zone, he'd get amazing marks. Take him out to a new place and it's like someone put his brain in a blender :P

I will see how he is feeling, the give and retake would not be so bad if it was the other side of the circle, but it is just as you turn to re-join the track and for some reason he just considers that as a canter transition spot. 8 times out of 10 today he would just keep a nice pace and work in a fantastic supple shape, but you can nearly guarantee that this weekend we will show the "head up, tense back, wibbly-wobbly half-canter, half-trot pace" :D It will only be his 3rd dressage test, we are much more in to our hunting and all things XC style, but thought I'd have a crack at an ODE as it is an excuse to go out on what's forecast to be a nice weekend :) We did this same test before and got 64% but our give and retake ended up in a canter half pass ;) I will play about tomorrow with the anchoring one hand and see how subtle I can manage it :D
 
may not be time now but it may be worth doing a downwards transition every time you get to the track so that he is waiting for you to slow down instead of thinking its a go point of the arena. that can help when you get to a show and the horse is a bit fizzy
 
Just on a point re scoring, I once completely forgot (innocently) to give and retake, still got a mark for the trot (think probable just a five or six), but did get the comment "give and take not clear enough"!!!!!!!! So in the grand scheme of things it didn't affect my overall score too much and ended up second �� (was half a mark behind the winner so if I had only remembered to do it........................)
 
The only person you can cheat in dressage is your self . Try for it and if it doesnt go, try again next time.
 
I have recently done intro B on a very speedy pony. She was working beautifully until I gave the reins and then she shot off with me! Rest of the test was awful. However I got a 5 for that movement and judge wrote 'no give of reins' I thought should have been able to see the give of reins when we shot out of the arena in canter! :D I would just see how it feels in the warm up and If you feel you can't do it don't bother, at prelim the judge is unlikely to be too harsh, good luck :)
 
Maclinda said:
Just on a point re scoring, I once completely forgot (innocently) to give and retake, still got a mark for the trot (think probable just a five or six), but did get the comment "give and take not clear enough"!!!!!!!!
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yep, assuming the mark isn't ONLY for the give and retake, but includes something like ride a half circle B-E, etc (haven't got any prelim tests to look, sorry) then you will still score a mark just for your horse's way of going between those markers.

If the mark was only for the G&R, then you wouldn't get anything if you didn't do it, but i can't think of many tests that give 10 marks for something so fleeting - flying changes in the AM tests perhaps, occasionally a transition in the other higher level tests but not really at prelim. Just do what feels right on the day, you've got a few options above.
 
I did my horses first test at the weekend
She tends to get very fizzy after cantering on both reins as she used to showjump
My answer was not to canter at all until my test (just warmed up in trot) and it meant at least in the test I was able to come from canter to trot without running off. Her trot work wasn't as good as it would have been with a proper canter warm up, but it was better than leaving the arena
While i too was 'only cheating myself' it worked for us as she got to go to a show with no jumps, be chilled out and relaxed, and next time we will have had more practice
Do whatever makes you feel less panicked. Chances are since you have worried about it now you will subconciously tense up expecting your horse to run off- which won't help! I second a quick but clear give with the inside while raising but holding and halfhalting on the outside and hope for the best. If you get a 5 (which will be the rest of the movement) its better than getting 5's for all the rest of the movements...
 
Writing unaffiliated for a judge the other week, she deducted 2 marks I think for no give and retake. As said above it was only part of a movement so if the rest of the movement is marked as well, so what would have been a 7 with a decent give and retake, got a 5.
 
Maclinda said:
Just on a point re scoring, I once completely forgot (innocently) to give and retake, still got a mark for the trot (think probable just a five or six), but did get the comment "give and take not clear enough"!!!!!!!! So in the grand scheme of things it didn't affect my overall score too much and ended up second �� (was half a mark behind the winner so if I had only remembered to do it........................)
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This ^^^. The G&R is the movement, but there are still marks to be retained for the trot / canter work either side of the G&R, the line you are on, the engagement and activity of the horse etc etc. In any given movement in a dressage test, the written words are only one aspect of what the judge will be looking at.

However, I would still give it a go and see what happens. My mare is usually dreadful at G&R in canter, but I wouldn't ride a test knowingly not riding the G&R - the whole idea of the test is that you are riding the movements to ascertain how well you can ride the required movements at a given level.

Just give it a go ;) :)
 
Can you do give and retake in canter? It's easier to keep them off your seat in canter and it does translate through to trot.

Also try sitting trot. Again, easier to hold them with your core.
 
You lot are so helpful! didn't expect so many replies :) I tried cantering him giving and retaking, went well, I schooled him in his jumping field to try and test him while not in his comfort zone (he does love "his" school) I found that if I gave a couple of half halts, then gave the reins he seemed to realize that i wanted him to stay steady. We had the odd big trot but overall, no cantering :) I'm hoping we will be fine ! but we will see how it goes on Sunday, just wish I could keep him as calm as he is at home as he moves beautifully when he's not all tensed up. I found that raising the reins upset him most, he has been whipped quite badly in Ireland and i reckon' he thinks I'm raising my hands to thrash him, haven't put a whip near him since the day I bought him 3 years ago but I suppose it's deeply ingrained.

Been trying to focus on my balance but after breaking my left foot, I am struggling to hold myself up evenly, luckily the give and retake is on the right rein so I might get away with that !

Will re-read everything again :)
 
Read the sheet wrong, give and retake is on the left rein, so might have to avoid as no matter how hard I try, I cannot keep a very good balance on the left flexion while my ankle and calf is still weak :( Oh well, it is part of another movement so I suppose I may just "forget" it ! and then I have less to think about :) Will let you know how it goes anyway, if I chicken out then will let you know how it affected the mark haha !
 
Maclinda said:
Just on a point re scoring, I once completely forgot (innocently) to give and retake, still got a mark for the trot (think probable just a five or six), but did get the comment "give and take not clear enough"!!!!!!!! So in the grand scheme of things it didn't affect my overall score too much and ended up second �� (was half a mark behind the winner so if I had only remembered to do it........................)
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Done the same, learned the test with no glasses, had no idea I was supposed to, still got a 5 for that movement and a 67%.

I always ride today's test for tomorrow. As in give my horse a nice experience so he will be confident next time. So, although mine has no probs with G&R, I may do a canter/trot trans early if it has a halt at the next marker, so he feels confident....
 
In Prelim 13 you have to give and retake over x in the second half of the circle so if you're prepared before x you can do it nowhere near the side if that's what's triggering the 'canter' reaction. Agree with a half halt in preparation then raise the hands up and forwards but keep a contact, you'll probably get away with it.
 
Just be careful if you don't do it the judge could stop you as an error of course this once happened to me in a novice test. I was supposed to give and retake as I crossed the centre line across the diaganol but my horse spotted something so i waited a stride an then asked, the judge rung the bell stopped me and said I did my give and re take in the wrong place it should be over the centre line. Most wouldn't be that harsh I'm sure but not worth risking it
 
I've just come back from the event, he was absolutely perfect, I gave the reins and he just floated along without rushing at all, completely gave and retook the reins with no issue at all, I think we got a 7 for the circle. Bearing in mind, last time we did this test he cantered off and was tense as a coiled up spring.
I warmed up without cantering as someone suggested, (great idea thanks!) and it worked very well, he was so relaxed, I made sure I kept the leg on too as he can forget the hind end and only use his front end if I don't push him in to the bridle, so I could then relax my reins a lot more. The judge was very harsh and nobody got much about 64% with a lot on 55% ish so we came out with 60% and couldn't be more pleased :) Would have got a higher mark but I am a bit wonky due to the weak ankle after the injury , so it made us a bit off on the left rein but otherwise it was super.

:D
 
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