Give in on my eventing dream or keep trying??

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Saffey

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Hi all.
Wondering if any one can help make me feel better!! I am a struggling eventer. A bit of background first (will cut it short)

Got Casper when he was 6 months old. Backed him when he was 3 lightly then started when he was 4. Everything went great. No problems. He is now 7. He hacks alone. First or last in a group. Never silly. Very laid back kinda dude.

Now the problem.. Last year we started eventing.. It went ok. Clear SJ rounds and the odd elimination XC or at least 2 stops. Thats fine. Can cope. This year its gone to hell..

Hes decided he wont show jump. He goes into the ring and bucks. I kick he bucks. He drops to trot and leaps the fence or point blank refuses to jump. We only do 80s. His XC is the opposite.. Hes a bit sticky out the box and over 1 and 2 but after that hes away. Dressage is usually 30-35.

I am just at a loss of what to do. Its heartbreaking coming away from events after having a battle around a SJ round that last year wasn't a issue. He jumps amazing at home and in the warm up. I've had lessons and hired course to school over.. He never does anything like this so its so hard to fix when it only happens when we go into the ring. I dont want to give up on eventing as its my dream but I am so close.

Ps gets teath back saddle checked regularly. He's a 16.3hh sport horse so 80cm isnt a issue.

Help please!!
 
Have you a regular trainer who has seen how he behaves at competition? Can you stick them/a pro on him to see what they think the problem might be?
 
Horses rarely "decide" something, they tend to react to things whether that be experiences or feelings.

Second ester's suggestion for trainer/pro. ..
 
I would not rule out a physical reason on the basis that he is fine everywhere else as sometimes it does only show when under pressure or a different surface, event jumping tends to be on grass and that can cause more jarring, potentially slipping if not studded or if the wrong studs are used then they can cause discomfort, you need to take an overall picture and see if there is a link that could be causing him discomfort, even a different saddlecloth can change how the saddle fits.

If everything is ok then how is he if you go clear round or pure SJ, course hire is not the same as going in cold to jump a course with a full collecting ring and people watching, if you have not tried going sj then that would be my plan, find a decent trainer who will go with you at least once or twice and see if they can pick up what is going on, having lessons is great but of no help if the trainer does not work on the issues you are having, if they can see rather than be told it could make a huge difference.

I would take the pressure of eventing away until the sj is sorted, do some dressage, sj, xc as separate disciplines and try and have some fun, maybe leave it now for this season and get out having some fun ready to get started next season with the sj going well after a winter of jumping indoors, maybe some hunting and have a positive start, often it is the rider that is the key, riding more cautiously or being nervous in the ring will transmit to the horse, sometimes it takes a while to realise it is you that changes, a really good trainer will pick up on everything as they will have seen it all before.
 
Not exactly the same situation but my horse has recently changed in his jumping, mainly sj but it then also started xc.

First port of call is the obvious checks, then a case of trying to work out what's going on. Is it horse, is it rider, perhaps both. I'm working with my trainer at home and it seems like we might have identified the issue fairly quickly (numpty rider), now I need to build up from there. We will drop down in height, work slowly whilst he gets his confidence back, and go from there.
 
I did it with F XC, it didn't solve the problem but was helpful in that I decided I wasn't going to be able to ride well enough before he was due to retire so we'd stop trying and just do pairs for fun and other stuff ;).

This chap is much younger though so much more likely solvable but just missed so far :).
Saffey what is he like if you take him pure SJ on a surface and on grass? There can be reasons physical reasons might only pop up at shows but it does sound like it might be more the general atmosphere and IME it is very different BE compared to normal SJ.
 
be positive said:
I would not rule out a physical reason on the basis that he is fine everywhere else as sometimes it does only show when under pressure or a different surface, event jumping tends to be on grass and that can cause more jarring, potentially slipping if not studded or if the wrong studs are used then they can cause discomfort, you need to take an overall picture and see if there is a link that could be causing him discomfort, even a different saddlecloth can change how the saddle fits.

If everything is ok then how is he if you go clear round or pure SJ, course hire is not the same as going in cold to jump a course with a full collecting ring and people watching, if you have not tried going sj then that would be my plan, find a decent trainer who will go with you at least once or twice and see if they can pick up what is going on, having lessons is great but of no help if the trainer does not work on the issues you are having, if they can see rather than be told it could make a huge difference.

I would take the pressure of eventing away until the sj is sorted, do some dressage, sj, xc as separate disciplines and try and have some fun, maybe leave it now for this season and get out having some fun ready to get started next season with the sj going well after a winter of jumping indoors, maybe some hunting and have a positive start, often it is the rider that is the key, riding more cautiously or being nervous in the ring will transmit to the horse, sometimes it takes a while to realise it is you that changes, a really good trainer will pick up on everything as they will have seen it all before.
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Bingo be positve! Exactly what I'm planning for the winter, have shelved any notion of doing a be80 until we are confident all tackling that height in each discipline in comp, then putting it together in ODEs.
 
Thank you all. We dont do pure show jumping as I tend to see people I know as they are local and dont want to look like a numpty! have only just found a instructor I like. I will try some pure show jumping. It was on a surface yesterday. He did it on grass at Warwick BE a few weeks ago and went clear but started the bucking and backing off thing when we went into the arena which is new but was fine once he jumped fence 1. It was then much worse yesterday on the surfaced and he never really stopped bucking and refusing to go forward, but again didn't do it in the warm up or XC.

At home he will easy pop around a course for 90cms. I measure them to the correct hight! My OH kindly bought me 10 jump poles so we set up a course now and then to pop round. The hight doesnt bother me at home but it does always look big away from home!! I always use the same tack at home or away. I have a dressage/sj/xc saddle pads that get used and washed. I cant get away with having tack for eventing only. Its to expensive to be just used once a month for 6 months then put away. It gets used. Hes studded on grass. I never over stud and always make sure they are just enough for grip as he hates to slip. Hes not i pain. We regularly hack to a gallop track and he is more then happy to gallop around that. No bucking or ears back. Same with the beach or any hacking. I agree it probably is me. We had to warm up in a 20x60 indoor which was in half. So dressage warm up was in 20x30 and SJ was in 20x30. It was tiny. 6 horses warming up with us so we didnt get a good long "blast" down the long side like we normally would and had a few stops in the warm up bcoz he was losing impulsion coming off a tight turn. Hes 7 but he is still a bit green as hes never been rushed. But then I think I am making excuses as every other horse didnt seem to have a issue !! So frustrating :( we just want our last years clears back!!
 
I agree with what has already been said but could he just be napping? My horse is often sticky show jumping due to the other horses are in the collecting/warm-up ring. I can anticipate which jumps he will want to stop at i.e. the jumps that are going away from the collecting ring and are furthest from the collecting ring. It can sometimes be an issue with XC but he is ok once we are over the first jump but it can depend on where the warm up is in relation to the start box.
 
I would def pop to some pure SJ or clear round, preferably somewhere quieter where you don't feel too rushed and I'd just use it for some experimenting/thinking- we have a few places near me that would be great for this.

I guess the things I would think about would be
Is he the same before and after the bell?
Is he the same if you go back in a second time?
What happens if you enter the ring in canter and keep cantering?
Does he do it if you chuck someone else on him, maybe not even a pro, just someone different if that is easier to start!

The reason pain cannot totally be ruled out because of behaviour elsewhere can be because of tension as much as surfaces, if there is something he is struggling mentally and getting tense then pain may be experienced then when it isn't at any other time.
BUT having said that it would not be my first port of call in the situation you are describing.


And hey look on the positive, if it is maybe you at least you know what is going on inside your head, so you are probably easier to fix with the right help :D
Oh and stop comparing to the other horses around you :p you have absolutely no idea what issues they may have had!
 
Don't despair! I had one that suddenly stopped wanting to jump SJ and did the backing off, bucking and napping thing. She also never did it XC, though we went through a phase of bucking on the flat but that didn't last as long as the SJ issues. We could never find any sign of a physical issue despite checks by a variety of people, but think it was due to a combination of increasing height, numpty riding (and not ideal instructor) and bad experiences as a youngster (though obviously you know your horses history so that isn't the issue here). It took a lot of work with a good instructor, but we got there and ended up jumping clears round BE90 and 100 relatively consistently, and any faults we did have were poles down. Don't feel embarrassed if you have to have a few disaster rounds or take things back a step to rebuild you and your horses confidence, ups and downs are part of bringing on a horse! Don't give up just yet!
 
Yes I agree it could be napping. Always thought that XC and hes better if I dont go into the warm up at all for XC. Hes warmed up for SJ so we just have a little hack about while we wait. But I cant really do that for SJ and dont know how I can stop it? I hack him out most days for a cool down or a warm up. We are on a busy livery yard so people often in and out of areans and hes not fussed at all..!! We have done cubbing and he is often the horse to be left places on guard while others gallop off and leave. As long as i sit buckle on of the reign he wont move. As soon as i collect my reign he started to dance a bit but again wont go until I say go. And he will happily leave the group when cubbing to be sent off places! He is such a pickle!!
I know I shouldnt compare..!! They just all seem to happy and enjoying it.. I want that!! Haha. I often sit and look at random BE records to reassure myself that I am not the only one with a string of E's!!
I tend to go in and ask him to canter.. Im thinking maybe i need to be softer but its all such a blurr...i think maybe a little trot a few circles as if i was about to jump a course at home. Then pop to canter. There wasnt a bell yesterday it was just start when your ready.. In hindsight I should have used that to my advantage and got him going and settled before heading for fence 1.. I didnt.. I headed for fence one.. Bucking backing off and all.
I do need to take a deep breath and chill. Count to 4 in my head while riding round but i do get a bit all guns blazing!
Definitely going to do pure SJ maybe a small class then a bigger.
 
iknowmyvalue said:
Don't despair! I had one that suddenly stopped wanting to jump SJ and did the backing off, bucking and napping thing. She also never did it XC, though we went through a phase of bucking on the flat but that didn't last as long as the SJ issues. We could never find any sign of a physical issue despite checks by a variety of people, but think it was due to a combination of increasing height, numpty riding (and not ideal instructor) and bad experiences as a youngster (though obviously you know your horses history so that isn't the issue here). It took a lot of work with a good instructor, but we got there and ended up jumping clears round BE90 and 100 relatively consistently, and any faults we did have were poles down. Don't feel embarrassed if you have to have a few disaster rounds or take things back a step to rebuild you and your horses confidence, ups and downs are part of bringing on a horse! Don't give up just yet!
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So happy to read this. No hes never had a bad experience but I have never evented so it is the blind leading the blind. Hoping lessons will help sort my act out too. Thank you. And well done you!! X
 
Saffey said:
At home he will easy pop around a course for 90cms. I measure them to the correct hight! My OH kindly bought me 10 jump poles so we set up a course now and then to pop round. The hight doesnt bother me at home but it does always look big away from home!!
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This bit says a lot to me.
If he is jumping bigger courses at home then it's unlikely to be a pain issue.
I would guess from the above that you are getting a little phase by the whole Eventing SJ bit and he's picking up on that. This becomes a downward spiral as the performance gets worse so you get more tense about it. Net result he starts napping.
So you need to break the cycle. In your position I would get someone else to jump him pure SJ at local comps then when he is going ok, you start jumping local comps. Once you are both performing at local SJ then move back to eventing.
Once the SJ issue is sorted try to treat each phase as a single comp. So instead of thinking 'I'm going eventing' think I'm doing a dressage comp, a SJ comp and a hunter trial that all just happen to be at the same venue. Sounds silly but does make it easier.
 
I agree with the last poster, it sounds like it could be lack of confidence. Some horses totally feed off the rider and when the rider's confidence starts to falter, even a little, it can quickly spiral into disaster.

Your comment about feeling a numpty if anyone you know sees you is pretty telling!

If it were me, I'd be getting the horse out SJ as much as possible, to different venues as well, jump say 75-85cm to begin with until that is easy, then move up again.

Don't underestimate the power of confidence in show jumping.
 
when you say 'wasn't too bad but describe two stops/elim that to me is bad! You should be setting him up to succeed by schooling until you are confident he isconfident at the competition level - so xc schooling.
That may be best with company to get him going forward.
I am not surprised it has escalated to him being poor jumping all round as he has been telling you he's not ready.
 
Firstly ,he is still young for an ISH . Eventing is mostly heartbreaking so get used to it.I have recently had long discussions with a young rider who simply did not understand why her horse kept having a stop xc . Horses stop for 3 reasons . Pain (but really game ones will hide it) . Cowardice,very few horses are cowards . Lack of understanding of what is being asked ,now there's a thing! She had two horses ,both young. One a quirky temperamental bitch ,the other a willing lamb. No prizes to guess who got all the xc schooling with added drag hunting ,and guess who got some rather lazy no questions xc schooling. You guessed right, willing lamb started stopping . So we went schooling . The problem with most schooling is that the horses have far too much time to think,time they simply dont get xc. I have hunted all my life and it kind of shocked me how the rider didnt understand that they weren't putting any pressure on the horse. Nowdays to go clear xc BE ,a horse needs to be able to think quickly ,there is no point handing it to them on a plate out schooling. Incidentaly willing lamb is now back on form with two runs clear.
 
Even at Badminton you can be second after dressage, first after cross country and still have it all go wrong in the show jumping and that's at top level. As long as you've given your horse the best chance you can there will always be another day.
 
Saffey said:
Thank you all. We dont do pure show jumping as I tend to see people I know as they are local and dont want to look like a numpty! have only just found a instructor I like. I will try some pure show jumping. !
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Think I'd just accept that horses like to show you up, and get on with doing as much low level show jumping as possible. Start low and build. Doesn't need to be affiliated. Clear round fine, just make show jumping routine for you both.
 
Speaking from experience, he is without doubt, telling you something ! You need to start investigating, even investigating some perhaps unlikely causes. Dont discount anything. It'll take time (and quite a few pennies) but youll have a really happy horse once youve discovered it and treated it accordingly.
 
If you're issue is purely in the show jumping, have you done loads of pure show jumping event? I would probably concentrate on nothing else all winter, starting small so you can literally trot over them and only going higher after he's totally confident.

Have to say, I had a horse like this. He came to me basically ruined with his jumping though (I found out after I bought him that people had seen him basically beaten round big BS tracks when he was young). He just didnt have the heart for it at all, he was absolutely awesome at home and in training - would jump anything. But put him in the ring and he would nap, he'd jump the first few then suddenly slam on the brakes and that was it. I battled for about 4 years with him (including of course getting everything checked and getting other riders to try to no avail) but in the end I decided it was kinder on him to sell him as a hack. He's the only horse I've ever had who just didn't seem to want to do it, he wasn't naughty, he just felt like it wasn't his thing.
 
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