Giving horses new competition names.

[ycbm]

It is not control. It is about giving breeders a bit of respect. It allows people to trace where their horse came from. It allows others from the same family to be traced and family/breeding traits identified. It occasionally gives breeders recognition for the effort they put in choosing the right stallion for that mare. Is their breeding programme working 10 years down the line? And if names are changed willy-nilly how is any record to be kept of that horse? Names are used in competitions, not microchip numbers!!

Does it make a difference if the stallion is unnamed and only the mare's offspring can be tracked?

Databases make the tracking by chip number independent of name very easy if anyone could be bothered to do it. Instead, breeders get lifetime marketing of their product for free by relying on the controllers of affiliated competition insisting on passported names, and passport agencies refusing name changes. I understand this at top level, but not for the lower end of the market.

I show my respect to a breeder by paying money for the horse.

 

[ycbm]

I'm aware of a lovely lady who has won lots with her amazing cob, Belle. She has never changed the pony's name even though she admits she hates it. So, if this lady can live with her championship winning pony having her name read out over the loudspeakers, I think you can live with patch.

Belle's passport name is River Meadows Head and Arse (really not kidding)

I would not accept that name and I would do whatever it took to change it.

 

[WeeLassie]

Absolutely nothing to do with control. Do your parents control you because they gave you your name? If I was buying a horse and I found its passport had been 'lost' and a new name given (which is illegal anyway,you cant legally have 2 passports on one microchip) I would immediately suspect the horse to be dodgy or stolen....

 

[GirlFriday]

Does it make a difference if the stallion is unnamed and only the mare's offspring can be tracked?

You'll effectively be placing the 9 foals in this position as they'll be no record for them that their dad went on to compete

 

[ycbm]

Absolutely nothing to do with control. Do your parents control you because they gave you your name? If I was buying a horse and I found its passport had been 'lost' and a new name given (which is illegal anyway,you cant legally have 2 passports on one microchip) I would immediately suspect the horse to be dodgy or stolen....

I could legally change my name without leaving my chair right now. It is about controlling what someone chooses to call their own property. I understand the reasons, but you can't rightly say it's not control.

 

[JFTDWS]

I wouldn't change a passport name, no. Fergus's name is fine - he's the only one, but it's a perfectly fine name. DryRot, on the other hand, was trolling me with Darach's name, since he's been sent down to me in England, and is now cursed with ghastly "MorriCK DaraCK" because the English can't speak correctly My mare's name isn't to my taste, but it is what it is. I like her stable name - if I didn't, I'd have changed it. So that's what I call her. If a commentator or show report lists her as her full name, it really doesn't affect my life to any appreciable degree.

 

[GirlFriday]

It's an interesting argument, but I don't think I can accept that a competitive home is any more likely to be a 'good' home for a horse, in terms of being well looked after.

But not necessarily a competitive one - if looking at sales catalogue/low end adverts would you not be more interested in something with a proven record (or parents with a proven record) than something completely random - even if you wanted it for happy hacking? Being able to look back and find comp records (without a lot of eliminations for falls and stopping xc!) gives people reassurance that horse has trainable attitude, no?

 

[GirlFriday]

If I was buying a horse and I found its passport had been 'lost' and a new name given (which is illegal anyway,you cant legally have 2 passports on one microchip) I would immediately suspect the horse to be dodgy or stolen....

Just remembered - was it poor old OP who had the stolen horse box (not stolen by her I hasten to add!) to sell? Whole thread kicked off with people saying they'd be put off by that (me included). I'd suggest that this is a similar thing... Perfectly good intentions of OP, but one of those things that can make things look bad. So, unless Ludo has a history of being (k)nicked and 'missing' for a couple of years much the best that he retains his 'full' history...

 

[ycbm]

You'll effectively be placing the 9 foals in this position as they'll be no record for them that their dad went on to compete

I honestly can't see that it matters at the bottom end of the market.

I buy the horse I see in front of me at that level, not its breeding. Doesn't everyone?

 

[WeeLassie]

I could legally change my name without leaving my chair right now. It is about controlling what someone chooses to call their own property. I understand the reasons, but you can't rightly say it's not control.

I dont like the concept of a horse being 'property' - he is who his parents are and he has the name and prefix he was given. His breeder is named as the owner of the prefix so they can always be traced, and they can always trace their horses. 'Losing passports' and 'forgetting the PIO' is not only illegal, it serves no purpose except to hide a horses real identity.

 

[ycbm]

Just remembered - was it poor old OP who had the stolen horse box (not stolen by her I hasten to add!) to sell? Whole thread kicked off with people saying they'd be put off by that (me included). I'd suggest that this is a similar thing... Perfectly good intentions of OP, but one of those things that can make things look bad. So, unless Ludo has a history of being (k)nicked and 'missing' for a couple of years much the best that he retains his 'full' history...

What is this post even supposed to mean? 'Poor old OP' sold her perfectly legitimate horse box a month ago . Though what it has to do with this thread, I'm blowed if I know

 

[ycbm]

it serves no purpose except to hide a horses real identity.

It serves the purpose of being able to compete under a name you actually like instead of one you don't like at all. I'll be doing that unaffiliated anyway, with his stable name.

 

[GirlFriday]

What is this post even supposed to mean? 'Poor old OP' sold her perfectly legitimate horse box a month ago . Though what it has to do with this thread, I'm blowed if I know

It related to traceable history of horsebox; this relates to traceable history of horse. And I suspect you didn't get the responses you quite thought of on either thread - although (being old in forum-post-years if not rl ones) you'll know what this place can be like.

 

[ycbm]

And I suspect you didn't get the responses you quite thought of on either thread.

'Poor old OP' has no idea what that's supposed to mean either .

I found the discussion here very interesting and thought provoking, and the completely unrelated lorry pricing thread extremely useful. I'm grateful to everyone who posted in both threads.


PS I am not poor, but I certainly am old

 

[Frumpoon]

If he doesn't have a microchip I would just register him on a PIA passport of your choice with the name you want. I've recently had to apply for a duplicate passport and you just need the vet to complete the markings form from the PIA, they'll jab with a microchip and then you just post off with a cheque and maybe a self signed declaration of ownership or similar and then it comes in the post 3 weeks later

 

[stormox]

If he doesn't have a microchip I would just register him on a PIA passport of your choice with the name you want. I've recently had to apply for a duplicate passport and you just need the vet to complete the markings form from the PIA, they'll jab with a microchip and then you just post off with a cheque and maybe a self signed declaration of ownership or similar and then it comes in the post 3 weeks later

The horse has a microchip and owner has a passport from a registered PIO with his registered name and breeders prefix for him. So it is illegal to apply for a different passport.

 

[Frumpoon]

Oh bum, yes the microchip makes it impossible unless it can't be detected for whatever reason

I have a horse that had a passport, a microchip, registered breeding but no registered name. Again that was relatively easy as I just dreamt up the name, filled out the form and posted passport, form and cheque...that's probably not very helpful though is it

 

[Abi90]

Oh bum, yes the microchip makes it impossible unless it can't be detected for whatever reason

I have a horse that had a passport, a microchip, registered breeding but no registered name. Again that was relatively easy as I just dreamt up the name, filled out the form and posted passport, form and cheque...that's probably not very helpful though is it

Mine was the same, her registered "name" was "unknown", so I gave her a name

 

[stormox]

With the irish horse board most people dont name them as foals unless they have a registered prefix. New owners name them when they get the horse put into their name.
But OPs horse has a registered name with the breeders prefix. I really dont think she should change that, after all what is the point of us breeders paying for our prefixes so we can keep track of our horses, and therefore see if we are on the right track with our breeding programme if people can just change it? it is also a good advert for our stock if one with our prefix does well.

 

[ycbm]

what is the point of us breeders paying for our prefixes

For the same reason people pay to register trade marks. So that nobody can pass off their product as yours.

so we can keep track of our horses, and therefore see if we are on the right track with our breeding programme if people can just change it? it is also a good advert for our stock if one with our prefix does well.

Horse was bred as a trotter and should be racing by now. I doubt if the breeder gives a damn about whether he does some affiliated dressage in another three years time. And I would be more than happy to prevent him entering the harness racing world by making him untraceable.

I think I'll contact his breeder and ask if he will agree a name change. As has been pointed out, to do anything else would be illegal.

 

[milliepops]

All three of mine have a prefix that pertains to the breeder and I would feel very uncomfortable changing that - one has a breed society passport, the other two a generic petplan. It actually annoys me more that the younger two are on a generic passport, and the breeding isn't properly recorded tbh. The names are the only bit of traceability I have for them really

I have one on a generic passport which I find similarly irritating as I know her breeding but it's not recorded. Shame. I added the HAPPA prefix to hers so that she had some kind of identity before we started affiliated competition as I didn't want her to be Millie XV or whatever... this was before HAPPA did it themselves

The blinking Welsh diva is named after a Star Trek character, talk about rubbish names wouldn't dream of changing it, I would love to meet another with the same prefix.

But not necessarily a competitive one - if looking at sales catalogue/low end adverts would you not be more interested in something with a proven record (or parents with a proven record) than something completely random - even if you wanted it for happy hacking?

I only bought my latest project at the local cheapo sales because I recognised the breeding/sire. I think she's going to be a goodun but wouldn't have bothered going to look without that info. I have changed her stable name but the random passport name will stay

 

[crabbymare]

The problem with changing passported names of horses with or without a microchip is that the breeder will find it almost impossible to trace the offspring. How am "I" to trace a horse that "I" bred say 6 years ago, who is now out competing? If the horse has a name on the passport and is registered with that name I can trace him/her. If the horse has a change of name and is registered with British Dressage I cannot think oh sure I can look him or her up by the breeding , or life number or microchip, as they are not searchable. This means that the horse I registered as Neddy on the passport and is on the pedigree sites as being her offspring, would not have results showing as Neddy is now GeeGee.

 

[popsdosh]

YCBM you do crack me up! so full of your own self importance to not recognise that without breeders taking the trouble to breed these horses you wouldnt have anything to complain about. What makes you personally the arbiter of whether a breeder cares about what they are breeding. Take it from me anybody who puts their prefix in front of a name does and the level at which it competes is not an issue as each to their own. Those who breed rubbish very rarely put their names to them . There is a very large sports horse breeder and producer who names non of theirs until they are broken and assessed ,you will never see their cast offs carrying the prefix or any other way of telling where they come from.
You do love winding people up and being rude one of the reasons I very rarely comment on here anymore it gets boring. Couldnt let this one go though.
Out of all the comebacks so far you still have not answered a very simple question. Knowing what the rules are why did you buy it in the first place if you really cannot stand its name I know people who dont. Luckily we are never likely to be in a position where you may be looking to buy one of mine ,with your attitude you would be told to take a hike and let somebody who knows what their doing have the horse.

 

[McFluff]

Names and what you can do with them are interesting. I agree with others that the breeder prefix should be kept, although I do think that breeders shouldn't be too out there or risky with names as surely they want future owners to be proud of them.

My cobs have no breeding or info on their passports. They are just registered with their stable names. The older gelding has remained that way - never competed so no issue. I compete my mare though and didn't want to be number 18 of the name with BD so added to her name. The passport still shows her previous name underneath. I presume now that she has a competition record her name can't (shouldn't?) be changed? I have no intention of ever selling her, but would imagine that once a horse has points things shouldn't be changed.

I knew that I couldn't change my retired racehorses name. Didn't like the registered name, but it was hers and it did let me see her breeding and race history. And, on reflection, I'd rather have the ability to research history and a name I didn't really like, compared to a name I can change easily but no traceable info on my horse.

When I see horses competing I always assume that the rider has inherited the name so wouldn't think they were the 'numpty' if a name doesn't seem to fit the horse!

 

[ycbm]

The problem with changing passported names of horses with or without a microchip is that the breeder will find it almost impossible to trace the offspring. How am "I" to trace a horse that "I" bred say 6 years ago, who is now out competing? If the horse has a name on the passport and is registered with that name I can trace him/her. If the horse has a change of name and is registered with British Dressage I cannot think oh sure I can look him or her up by the breeding , or life number or microchip, as they are not searchable. This means that the horse I registered as Neddy on the passport and is on the pedigree sites as being her offspring, would not have results showing as Neddy is now GeeGee.

Well that's the essence of the problem, isn't it? The one thing that is guaranteed to stay with the horse unless it (rarely) fails, is not traceable. Should it not be, given that one of the reasons the rules are there is bio security? I've googled my guy's chip and it is not traceable, unless you were to contact every PIA and ask them to search their records. I did a thread not long ago on whether people follow the law with their passports. The poll gave a very interesting result. Passports do also genuinely get lost and owners not remember which of hundreds of organisations it was with. I can't, right now, remember who my paint is papered with, and if the guy he is with loses it then I will have to get him a new one. The chaotic system we have gives no guarantee of any horse maintaining its traceability.


Popsdosh, you sound more and more like a sour old crone these days. I answered your question pages ago. The personal abuse I am getting from you is increasing and unnecessary, please stop.

 

[popsdosh]

Touched a nerve then ! Its ok for you to rubbish people without knowing the first thing about them as per your assumptions about breeders!

Carry on please soon you will be the only poster left on here ,many have left already fed up with your attitude.

 

[claude rains]

Considering you've said the below about the horse on your other thread then surely that is a very good reason to keep his breeder's prefix. What a shame that they've bred a horse that you say moves better than all these other warmbloods etc etc if you then disown his breeding by re microchipping him and changing his name.

"I have watched him move, walk trot and canter, and I honestly think that he has better paces than a dressage warmblood by a GP stallion which I used to own. He really lifts and floats, and he has a huge length of stride. He's a very exciting prospect for a couple of years time. I plan to back him and ride him gently next year when he is three, if he is strong enough.

He already has a dished face which I'm hoping will get bigger. I knew he moved well but I only saw him trot across a bumpy field. Now I've seen him trot on the flat and canter across a cropped piece of field, and I think I have totally fallen on my feet. I've never owned a horse who moved better. I'm including three big moving warmbloods with GP sires in that, too.
A dressage friend who breeds warmbloods saw his walk yesterday and was so astonished she almost swore, and she never does.
I have some strides on the video that won't load from two days ago where he takes up a perfect long and low outline and trots absolutely beautifully. He has a lot of suspension, elegance and a great overtrack. I think he's the best mover I've ever owned."
Read more at https://forums-secure.horseandhound...ld-welcome-for-Ludo/page4#CtwZXwxAXmPBFAti.99

 

[claret09]

totally agree. just enjoy your horse

 

[Boulty]

I dislike my Welsh idiots passport name as it is simply far too boring for him plus I can neither spell nor pronounce the breeder prefix. As I mainly compete unaff I simply opt to use his stable name instead as it saves mispronounced / mispelt names and I am currently getting away with using it for TREC as well. If I did anything really proper and serious then I guess I'd have to use the boring name. (If you really hate it then depending on passport agency I think you can change it but they'll leave the original name in brackets? Would keep the breeder prefix if you do this though)

 

[GirlFriday]

I can't, right now, remember who my paint is papered with, and if the guy he is with loses it then I will have to get him a new one.

Nah - you could just Google it - here you go: http://www.standardbred.org/files/newsletter/issue65.pdf

So, greater rule-breaking required on your part if you're determined on this on OP.

Of course, if you'd already changed the name I'd not have been able to see his breeding...