Godolphin caught out.

tristar

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i think they should leave horses in peace and buy a flippin bike !

riding instructors are not horse trainers usually, they give riding lessons, i feel the greater part of their education should be actually participating in training horses under supervision or assisting, and riding classically trained horses that respond to delicate aids because unless you experience the sensations offered by properly trained horses, and understand how it is arrived at, how can you possibly impart that knowledge to anyone else?
 

tristar

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mind you thinking about it maybe my first sentance could be applied to sheikhs as well as riding instructors.
 

Alec Swan

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Did anyone see the Claire Balding/Frankie Detorrie interview on CH 4 this evening?

I've seen and heard some crap on the telly, we all have, but is there anyone who believes that the interview was anything but a crude and amateurish attempt at puppeteering? Sheikh Mohammed sponsors CH4 Racing, and following on from last Saturdays Balding interview, where his highness seemed less than pleased with both the approach and the questions, we now have all the endurance rides at Euston cancelled, and an embarrassing interview where it seems that Al Zarooni was the one to blame.

The interview had all the sincerity of a party political broadcast. ;)

Alec.
 

Alec Swan

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Endurance at Euston has been cancelled?! :(
Someone claiming that as the ball was his, he was going home for his tea. ;)

CH4 have now been silenced, it seems. The out pouring and obsequious and fawning spectacle over Godolphin's winner this afternoon was an exercise in retaining their funding. Detorri blamed Al Zarooni, for not just his downfall, but Godolphin's too! ;):D

Alec.
 

Honeylight

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Yesterday a great bull of a five year old won the Lockinge for Godolphin. No doubts that he will test clear for banned substances, as presumably all the horses in the Suroor yard. How, though can the authorities know this horse hasn't been pre-conditioned on steroids? All it would have taken was to spell him in Dubai, medicate him, give him so many months for it to leave his system before he raced.
Not saying it happened, but there will always be a question mark over these winners now.
 

silu

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Yesterday a great bull of a five year old won the Lockinge for Godolphin. No doubts that he will test clear for banned substances, as presumably all the horses in the Suroor yard. How, though can the authorities know this horse hasn't been pre-conditioned on steroids? All it would have taken was to spell him in Dubai, medicate him, give him so many months for it to leave his system before he raced.
Not saying it happened, but there will always be a question mark over these winners now.
My thoughts exactly. Certainly the winning horse was massively muscled. It seemd like there was very little applause from the crowd, ok it's flat racing and the favourite got beat but the silence was deafening!

Personally I hope Dawn Approach doesn't stay The Derby trip otherwise it'll just be the case that you can buy instant success. Unfortunately unless the French have something pretty special I think Dawn Approach will oblige
 

KautoStar1

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For me, the use of steroids, especially joint medication in such young horses raises the following questions:

Are we breeding race horses fit for purpose anymore ?
Should they be running at 2 yrs old ?

If the above answers are no and no (& I suspect they are) and nothing is done to make fundamental changes to the current system then maybe we do need to reconsider the medication rules !!!??
 

Honeylight

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For me, the use of steroids, especially joint medication in such young horses raises the following questions:

Are we breeding race horses fit for purpose anymore ?
Should they be running at 2 yrs old ?

If the above answers are no and no (& I suspect they are) and nothing is done to make fundamental changes to the current system then maybe we do need to reconsider the medication rules !!!??
Horses were better thirty years ago. It's partially the fault of "breeding fashions". Certain bloodlines are being used indiscriminately. Have a quick look at the runners for this years Oaks & Derby. They are largely grandaughters & grandsons of Sadlers Wells, some of them are inbred 3x3 to Northern Dancer & his unsound relative Native Dancer. If these horses meet at the stud it will be duplicated further. This is a situation that hasn't been as acute before, yes there were lots of horses by Nearco & Hyperion, but then there was a bigger gene pool to out cross to. Now there is virtually nothing out there.

I'm not sure medication is the answer, perhaps Coolmore should take some responsibility, but they are interested in money. When the horses stop winning maybe they will see the light.
 

merrymeasure

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2012 St Leger winner, Encke, trained by Mahmood Al Zarooni, has apparently failed a test for banned substances,among other positive results from the stable, it says on the Racing Post website.Where is this going to end? This scandal just gets worse!
 

Honeylight

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2012 St Leger winner, Encke, trained by Mahmood Al Zarooni, has apparently failed a test for banned substances,among other positive results from the stable, it says on the Racing Post website.Where is this going to end? This scandal just gets worse!
Bet Coolmore are furious! I would be if I were them; value taken off Camelot if Enkce had been given steroids prior to Doncaster last year.
 

merrymeasure

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IF he had been given steroids before Doncaster last year, Coolmore would also have been cheated out of the first Triple Crown Winner since1970, and Nijinsky. Think I'd be pretty upset too!
 

Elf On A Shelf

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I think it's safe to say that every single Godolphin raised horse will have had steroids in it's sytem at some stage of it's life.

The boss bought a 2yo filly out of Darley last year. 17hh at least and built like the proverbial brick outhouse. She had been broken but not galloped due to her size, she was being kept for a 3yo. We got her at 2years 7months and I kid you not - she wouldn't have looked out of place at HOYS in the middleweight hunters! She was produced for the ring but I doubt it was just feed and conditioning work that this mare received. We no longer have the horse. We kicked it out to grow up and age for jumping then the owner left the yard anyway. It would have been interesting to blood test her at the time.
 

Caledonia

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It's interesting that Encke didn't run between 1 Oct 2011 and 6 July 2012.

He easily won that 1 Oct 2011 2yo start at Newmarket. OK, with hindsight the opposing horses weren't up to much, but you wouldn't know that until the 3yo campaign - plenty lofty reputations tumble in the 3yo year.

Given that Godolphin had no runners in the 2012 Guineas, you'd really have to wonder why they didn't try Encke? He was by a French Guineas winner in Kingmambo who has sired plenty top milers inc Gunieas winners Russian Rhythm and Henry the Navigatior.

Why would they not have tried him? He was sound enough and strong enough to have a great 3yo campaign?

Wonder where he was over the winter?

It's apparently accepted that once administered, even when the steroids are clear in testing, the resulting muscle mass and ensuing increased ability remains for a further six months.

Encke's now a 4yo, you would be expecting him to be naturally bigger and stronger without medication this year, wouldn't you?
 
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Clodagh

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I don't see that Coolmore can do anthing as Enke tested clear last year, yeah right! We will never know if Camelot would have won without Enke being drugged but what might have been! We have possibly been robbed of an amazing and probalby never to be repeated feat.
Safe to assume ALL Godolphin horses are drugged, they are a bloody crooked bunch and I hope they do head off to France (Telegraph comment yesterday).
 

Alec Swan

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.......

Safe to assume ALL Godolphin horses are drugged, they are a bloody crooked bunch and I hope they do head off to France (Telegraph comment yesterday).
Sadly, I think that British Racing and Endurance too, would be a better place without Godolphin. The simple fact is that they're costing us more than they're bringing in.

Alec.
 

Caledonia

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Well here's a few more curve balls. Brilliant article.

http://www.theirishfield.ie/site/article.php?id=3154&cid=5

Extract that is hugely significant IMO -

Improvisation raced and won at Newmarket on April 17th, eight days after the BHA testers had entered Al Zarooni’s yard. If he had been administered stanozolol prior to April 9th, which he presumably was, yet still tested positive on April 29th, it suggests he was administered it a relatively short time prior to the April 9th tests.

So, why did Al Zarooni race him, presumably in the knowledge that he had stanozolol in his system? Did Al Zarooni have reason to believe, perhaps based on previous experience, that the stanozolol wouldn’t show up in the routine post-race test?

It should be noted that it is generally a urine sample that is taken for a routine post-race test, whereas it was blood tests that were taken from the horses in Al Zarooni’s yard on April 9th and April 29th that returned the positive results.

We are unlikely to ever know the answer to the specific case of Improvisation as, embarrassingly for the BHA, he was not routine tested after his Newmarket victory
Well I was under the illusion that every horse was tested after winning. Certainly every winner I've been involved with has been.

Given the yard testing was on April 9th, why was this horse NOT tested when he ran on the 17th?

I am almost scared to contemplate how insidious the corruption may be in the Godolphin outfit.
 

Elf On A Shelf

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If the winner was expected to win or was a short priced 2nd fav to a well beaten fav the the beaten horse will be tested not the winner.
 

KautoStar1

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Usually Alec I agree with you on almost everything, but in this case I can’t say I do (sorry :) )

I think they have been good for racing and have ploughed a lot of money into the sport, with sponsorship, funding of vet research, employment, tv & newspaper – bearing in mind Chan 4 racing would be gone without them and they own the RP, which is the only racing daily. The trouble is, Godolphin has got too big and what started off as a small select band of horses (e.g. the best Sheik M had) to run under the Godolphin banner has just expanded to two stables full of fairly average horses and with Coolmoore’s dominance, not only on the track but also their roster of stallions (& the Sheik’s refusal to use their stallions), they’ve lost out and lost their way. Its too big, the sheik has lost control and taken his eye off the ball. He was far more successful as an owner when he had his horses with the likes of Sir Henry, Micheal Stoute and so on and his breeding was small and select. I’m not sure his choice of current trainers & racing manager have done him any favours. And while SBS’s stable might have been cleared of drug misuse, the practice of wintering his horses in Dubai, where the use of steroids ‘out of training’ is acceptable, he MUST have known what was going on. I think it’s a bit late for him to be ‘furious’ now.

But I do think racing still needs him but I think he needs to review his overall strategy for breeding and racing and clean up his act both here and in Dubai. Until Dubai is clean, any horses that race over there and then over here will be subject to much suspicion.

I think this is also a wake up call for the BHA and their testing methods.

In a way, I think a lot of good will come out of this, but the pain in the meantime could be hard to take.
 

Honeylight

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Usually Alec I agree with you on almost everything, but in this case I can’t say I do (sorry :) )

I think they have been good for racing and have ploughed a lot of money into the sport, with sponsorship, funding of vet research, employment, tv & newspaper – bearing in mind Chan 4 racing would be gone without them and they own the RP, which is the only racing daily. The trouble is, Godolphin has got too big and what started off as a small select band of horses (e.g. the best Sheik M had) to run under the Godolphin banner has just expanded to two stables full of fairly average horses and with Coolmoore’s dominance, not only on the track but also their roster of stallions (& the Sheik’s refusal to use their stallions), they’ve lost out and lost their way. Its too big, the sheik has lost control and taken his eye off the ball. He was far more successful as an owner when he had his horses with the likes of Sir Henry, Micheal Stoute and so on and his breeding was small and select. I’m not sure his choice of current trainers & racing manager have done him any favours. And while SBS’s stable might have been cleared of drug misuse, the practice of wintering his horses in Dubai, where the use of steroids ‘out of training’ is acceptable, he MUST have known what was going on. I think it’s a bit late for him to be ‘furious’ now.

But I do think racing still needs him but I think he needs to review his overall strategy for breeding and racing and clean up his act both here and in Dubai. Until Dubai is clean, any horses that race over there and then over here will be subject to much suspicion.

I think this is also a wake up call for the BHA and their testing methods.

In a way, I think a lot of good will come out of this, but the pain in the meantime could be hard to take.
Good post.
 

Caledonia

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If the winner was expected to win or was a short priced 2nd fav to a well beaten fav the the beaten horse will be tested not the winner.
Yes, I realise that now. Which is quite worrying really, as it's open to all manner of misuse.
 
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