Good Conformation: important or not??

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

OK. So you go to see a horse which comes as cheap as chips basically, a sort-of extended loan. Almost but not nearly a "gift horse".... (sort of).

BUT, as soon as you see it, you realise immediately that there are some conformation issues that in your view are going to cause issues, namely:-

A very heavy front end, with grossly over-developed neck and chest area, and a noticeably large head. Also the horse was very wide-sprung and had a very low wither and extremely short back - even though a full-up 15hh would probably only be able to take a 16" saddle if that. As if that wasn't enough, it had large bulky shoulders: the sort of shoulders that you find on driving ponies. The neck was very thick and cresty and the barrel of it was very chunky - and this isn't an issue that would be sorted by a loss of weight (tho' it could've done with that, no doubt), as the rib-cage and tummy area were quite firm, so this basically a low-slung undercarriage and not something that weight-loss alone would solve.

The legs were actually fine! BUT you couldn't help noticing that the body and bulk of the horse looked all wrong! You wanted to chop the horse in half horizontally TBH and say OK these are 15hh pony type legs, and/or take the top half and put that on the right set of legs. But not the two together.

To so summarise it was basically a 17.2hh Irish draught on a set of 15.0hh legs!! Described as a cob X, but god-alone-knows what crossed with! Looked like it could have been something like Percheron crossed in somewhere to give it that low-slung look.

Horse was 9yo, but apparently had a bad start and has been hanging around in fields/bad homes, and was re-backed earlier in the year with a reputable breaker. Rode very green; a 9yo riding as a 4yo as you'd expect. But isn't going to change shape! What you see is what you get with this one.

However...... however, my concern would be if you seriously started bringing this horse on and started to progress with groundwork (which it would now needs) that in ridden work you'd always struggle to get it off the forehand, certainly it would deffo struggle to get into anything resembling an outline, and would probably find it quite hard physically to do so - and if anyone did try it then my suspicion would be that it would struggle, i.e. pain/evasion issues. Also my gut reaction would be that being so heavy it front, it would lean on the bit very heavily and I suspect would be a puller, not through any fault of its own or deliberate vice, but purely because of the weight being in the wrong place and therefore it wouldn't be able to help itself basically, it would be totally weighted down on the forehand.

A real shame, coz my impression of this little horse was that he was a nice little chap and really wanted to please: he might just (only just) make a happy hacker, but would probably not ever be a really comfortable or pleasant hack TBH once a pulling/leaning habit had become established. Also saddle-fitting would be a total nightmare. He might however make a half-acceptable ride & drive, or even break him for purely driving, and forget about ridden work, might be the best option.

Which leads me on to the question: what importance do people place on conformation?? TBH I'd be prepared to overlook a few minor issues, or lumps and bumps (as long as the vet doesn't spin it!), but when issues of conformation hit you in the eye, and you can see them impacting on ridden work, then that gives pause for thought.

Thoughts/opinions folks?

 

[eggs]

LOL - My first pony was a 13.2 Highland and we always said he was a 15 hh horse on 12.2 legs.

For me now conformation is important as there are so many things that can go wrong that I would rather start with something that had a better chance all things being equal of staying sound. So for me good feet and legs are essential.

 

[FfionWinnie]

I wouldn't have viewed it, surely you could see from photos how it was put together?

 

[windand rain]

depends on what it is for many a sows ear has been turned into a silk purse when it prove to be a gem for the purpose it was bought for. Conformation only really matters in a way for hard working, highly trained or showing. A happy hacker being ridden a couple of times a week could easily look like it had been put together by a commitee but there are risks I suppose temperament is everything

 

[DD]

a horse with unsuitable conformation for 3 day eventing might be perfectly ok for hacking. it depends on the conformational " fault" and what the horse is required to do by its owner.

 

[milliepops]

I've never had a horse that's looked well put together at first. Of the 2 I currently have: Millie was loooooong and ewe necked with a weak front and giant quarters. She's a big horse on little legs. I liked her attitude so took a punt.

Kira, I fear, could have been described in the op but we could add pigeon toed to the mix. I liked her face though so took a punt.

Both have transformed immeasurably with plenty of work. Kira has quarters to match the enormous front now and can move with lightness. Her front legs have straightened now she has some muscle tone. Millie has a good topline and no longer buries her front end with all the power from behind.

In short, my budget as it is, I'd overlook many things in a fully let down horse, provided the horse had some quality that attracted me, whether that be attitude or expression or temperament, and didn't look like it would actually have a weakness that wouldn't stand up to work. I love the sows ear/silk purse transformations

 

[be positive]

Poor conformation will usually impact on long term soundness but not always, to me having correct conformation and good movement, it does not have to be flashy just easy moving, makes for a nicer ride, equally important for a happy hacker who may spend hours on board as for a competition horse, it will find work of any type easier and should stand up to the work better than one with bad conformation and poor paces.

The old saying of "never look a gift horse in the mouth" no longer really applies as horses are so much cheaper to buy but can be very expensive when they go wrong, unless the buyer is prepared to pts if it does go wrong, insurance will only cover so much and will not pay out to keep a broken down horse in long term retirement.

 

[Clodagh]

Porrly conformed horses are hard work to ride and morel ikely to go lame. No brainer for me, I don't care if it has a common head, but good legs, shoulder, hindquarters and back. Oops that is most of it!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I wouldn't have viewed it, surely you could see from photos how it was put together?

Twas one of those adverts where the photo's are not terribly good.......... nothing like seeing the horse in the flesh anyway IME as photo's, even vid's, can not tell the true story.

 

[Equi]

Very important. Yes some badly conformed horses make great all rounders or even comp horses but the main issue is that eventually their bodies will wear because of the strain placed on their joints from poor conformation. Personally I think people who suggest it is not important are ignorant. Not every horse is perfect of course and I certainly haven't got a horse with perfect conformation but I didn't search for him so to speak and he was too nice temperament wise to give back when part loan ended. He has issues now already due to his upright hocks and heavy front makes it harder to make him light behind. I've bred my first foal and I have been told so far her conformation looks like it will be great which I'm glad of cause I chose the parents carefully and only bred them when I knew they would suit.

If it doesn't matter for the human it should at least matter for the sake of the horse.

 

[Micropony]

They are so expensive to keep, buying cheap just doesn't make sense to me, especially when you think it could be leaving you expecting big vet bills down the line. Wouldn't have to be totally perfect, but would have to be up to the job I was buying it for. There's plenty that can go wrong out of nowhere, so why buy trouble just because it's cheap?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Are the legs just short, or are they light of bone as well? I'd never risk getting a heavy topped horse on spindly legs.

 

[Wagtail]

I have answered 2nd to last option as would consider horses with confo faults, but not as many as the one you describe in your OP. It also depends on the type of fault. Something like a short neck is nowhere near as important as dodgy hocks, for example.

 

[millikins]

Our Eriskay mare is too heavy through her neck and shoulders, much like the OP's horse. she has had an active life for 12 years with us, including being well schooled but is now semi retired at 20 with arthritis in hocks and front coffin joints. She will do some hacking when the ground softens and is sound on 1 bute a day. I hoped she'd stay sound for longer but I think her working life has been considerably shortened by her conformation.

 

[Tnavas]

A horse that's been put together by a committee!

Conformation should be a very important consideration for many reasons - primarily is the soundness and health of the horse, then the comfort of the rider. This horse sounds as if it will be laborious to ride with such a heavy front end.

It will be hard to fit tack to, 16" saddle is a childs size and a horse at 17hh - that's ridiculous. Poor conformation leads to injury, and vets bills!

Even a gift horse has to be cared for, do you have the money to deal with any soundness problems that may develop?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Twas one of those adverts where the photo's are not terribly good.......... nothing like seeing the horse in the flesh anyway IME as photo's, even vid's, can not tell the true story.

No but I can't be bothered viewing horses I won't buy so I now demand photos which would at least rule what you are describing out. There's no excuse these days. Everyone has a smart phone or knows someone who does.

 

[catroo]

While he does sound a bit odd I think it's a bit OTT to say he'd barely make a happy hacker. There's no reason why he should lean and pull, he obviously isn't doing that when plodding around the field! And I'm assuming he's stayed sound despite his flaws so far.

Short coupled would generally mean strong through the back so for a happy hacker the only concern maybe the legs.

 

[LadySam]

While he does sound a bit odd I think it's a bit OTT to say he'd barely make a happy hacker. There's no reason why he should lean and pull, he obviously isn't doing that when plodding around the field!

I agree, I don't think it should be a foregone conclusion he'd become a leaner.

OP, what are his hindquarters like? Is there any scope to build some muscle there so he's more balanced and not so 'front wheel drive'?

 

[Pie's mum]

My boy doesn't have the best conformation at all. Long back, bum high with a very heavy front end. Against the odds, at the age of 20 he is still fit and out jumping regularly (nothing huge, only 2ft9 as a max).
However.... I did make my life more difficult as he uses his heavy front end to lean and charge off. Balancing him and getting him to sit back on his hocks is very difficult - although my fab instructor has worked wonders with us both. Also, although he loves to jump, the higher fences were a bit of a struggle even in his younger years - we know his limit and don't push him over it.
I feel very very lucky to still have him doing what he's doing!
Personally if I was in the position to buy another I would avoid a heavy front end!

 

[ycbm]

A vet once confirmed my impression that the majority of horses die of something else (accident, colic, etc) long before they reach the end of their natural working life span. So a lot of confirmation defects wouldn't make me pass up a nice horse who catches my eye.

But I won't accept :

Over at the knee
Back at the knee
Forelegs set right at the front of the body (basically, straight shoulders)
Straight hocks
Back too short to hold the saddles I already own (adjustable WOWs)
Too obvious a cut and shut where the ends don't match or the legs belong to another horse.
Tight joints/stuffy movement

There might be a few more but those are what come to mind

I quite like long backs (in moderation) they are very comfortable to ride

 

[Sukistokes2]

I say horses for courses. A horse with an over develop front end could be taught to come from behind.
Personally when buying I tend to go for a certain type that I like. I would not class a horse with big shoulders as having a fault though they can be difficult to fit a saddle to. I tend to end up with quire short coupled animals with lots of bone. Nice straight clean legs, well put together , a large ,calm eye. Any major fault I'd prob move on

 

[milliepops]

A vet once confirmed my impression that the majority of horses die of something else (accident, colic, etc) long before they reach the end of their natural working life span. So a lot of confirmation defects wouldn't make me pass up a nice horse who catches my eye.

Glad there are some more responses that align with my thoughts now, I was feeling a bit lonely!

I would add to your vet's confirmation that most people don't work horses to the extent that any *minor* physical imperfections would become an issue. And the most perfect shaped horse can still have a hidden weakness No point in paying over the odds for something if you can find a nicer example, but some of the best horses I've ridden have not been the best lookers.

 

[Tnavas]

A vet once confirmed my impression that the majority of horses die of something else (accident, colic, etc) long before they reach the end of their natural working life span. So a lot of confirmation defects wouldn't make me pass up a nice horse who catches my eye.

Glad there are some more responses that align with my thoughts now, I was feeling a bit lonely!

I would add to your vet's confirmation that most people don't work horses to the extent that any *minor* physical imperfections would become an issue. And the most perfect shaped horse can still have a hidden weakness .

If you go by the number of posts on this site about things that have gone wrong with many horses you need to rethink the vets generalisation!

Poor conformation puts strains and stresses on the poorly put together areas that can also manifest as problems in other areas.

Unless you have a bottomless pit of money to deal with all the injections, lotions, potions and operations its far wiser to buy a horse that is well put together.

Something my father always said to me when I considering/feeling sorry for the lame duck horse "Remember you may want to sell it someday"

 

[ycbm]

Glad there are some more responses that align with my thoughts now, I was feeling a bit lonely!

I would add to your vet's confirmation that most people don't work horses to the extent that any *minor* physical imperfections would become an issue. And the most perfect shaped horse can still have a hidden weakness No point in paying over the odds for something if you can find a nicer example, but some of the best horses I've ridden have not been the best lookers.

My best horse was long enough to sit two or three people on at once . It didn't stop him doing a 71 novice dressage or being placed at BE Novice. He died of colic at fifteen.

My two most perfectly made horses turned out to have kissing spines followed by trigeminal neuralgia, and the other had congenital wobblers. One dead at eight, the other at ten.

 

[milliepops]

If you go by the number of posts on this site about things that have gone wrong with many horses you need to rethink the vets generalisation!

Poor conformation puts strains and stresses on the poorly put together areas that can also manifest as problems in other areas.

Unless you have a bottomless pit of money to deal with all the injections, lotions, potions and operations its far wiser to buy a horse that is well put together.

Something my father always said to me when I considering/feeling sorry for the lame duck horse "Remember you may want to sell it someday"

There are also thousands upon thousands of posts about horses that haven't gone wrong on here. There's no need to point out the complete obvious as I'm well aware that *any* horse can go wrong at any time!

The last one I took on, my ugly duckling freebie, came with the proviso that if she cost me any money in vets bills I'd cut my losses and she would get shot.
The horse in the OP was described as virtually a giveaway, therefore I'd possibly have gone for it on the same kind of deal to myself.
Turns out mine has now morphed into a swan and in fact I've just insured her as she's a keeper :lol:

Sorry about your bad luck ycbm. A friend of mine had a perfect specimen of a young horse that turned out to be a wobbler too, tragic.

 

[Nappy Croc]

A bit out here and there I'd forgive unless to show at high level, but then the two we show are by no means perfect....and any results Id pay more attention to than my opinion!
Of the horses I've had most recently- one heavy infront and dishes, dead straight hocks. He has retired a bit lame at 19 after a long career in a hard sport as well as riding club level riding with national titles to his name and many many miles on the clock. Another very long, super close behind but generally ok- going strong at 17 and only pulled himself in mud missing 3 days work once is his entire vet history. Another well put together but weak due to age and size- missed many months riding for little things like abscesses all adding up. Since selling him aged 6 he has had 2 surgeries due to accidents. And then finally 9yo bought with X-rays, lovely confo, small infront due to breeding but not much else to fault. Lame with arthritis by 11 and had to be put down as progressing fast and not suited to retirement. So in my personal experience there's a lot more that can go wrong than is what is brought about by slight imperfections in conformation. The two we show also do all RC stuff and neither have lameness issues but being only 8 and 12 and without such hard miles on them I couldn't really add them to my experience!

 

[Casey76]

But "over developed" etc refers to musculature not skeletal conformation. The former can be changed, the latter not.

It can take a lot of still to see the skeletal conformation underneath a poorly muscled/balanced horse, but that is what you need to do.

 

[Cortez]

My absolutely best, most reliable, kindest, hardest working and most photogenic (important in my line of work) horse has the worst conformation of the lot. She's 19 years old, never been off sick or lame and closely resembles the description of the OP's prospective horse. She is not a comfortable ride, being 3 inches taller at the croup than at the (non-existant) wither, but you'd never know it by looking at her. I bought her at 3, certain in the knowledge that she would grow out of being croup high - she never grew a centimeter, but has been the most wonderful girl.