Good doers and 24/7 summer turnout ...

Q

QuobAsti

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<font color="purple"> Our yard are allowed to go out on full time summer grazing as of this Saturday night, so they can live out 24/7 now until around end of October.

The problem for me is that Galaxy is a good doer and pretty much has her muzzle on all the time whilst she is turned out, even through most of the winter months.

Last summer she was out during the day and in a night, the year before it was the same routine and the year before that she was out at night and in during the day. She is constantly on fat fighters plan with the muzzle and 12hr soaked hay and a small token feed for her vits &amp; mins.

The thing is I would really like for her to be able to live out if possible, but then I feel mean making her wear her muzzle 24/7. The reason I was stabling her last summer was so she could have some chill out time, a break from the grass and from wearing her muzzle.

I don’t have the option to put her out in a bare paddock or to strip graze, so muzzling is my only option for her.

If I was to muzzle her during the day and then take it off at night she would just stuff her face! Also I have to be really careful with how much grass intake she has other wise she will come in with pulses.

Do any of you have any that are out 24/7 with a muzzle on?

I would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions on the matter.

Thanks
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You shouldn't muzzle 24 hours a day - it's simply not recommended.

If she's that difficult to keep the weight off, I would suggest stabling her overnight with soaked hay. And obviously ride as much as you can.
 
I didn't muzzle 24/7, but have heard of people who do, with no problems. Henry tries so hard to get his off, he damages his muzzle (as in tip of his face, not the grazing muzzle!) and that was wearing it for 12hrs max. This year I've managed to keep his weight down with bare paddock and exercise, so thankfully haven't had to use it, yet!

Is there no way at all you can section some of the field off? Does she look depressed with the muzzle on? If she's not bothered, then I would simply keep it on for her whole turnout and stick to the soaked hay routine (I was soaking for up to 24hrs, last year!).
 
If you have 24/7 turnout in the summer can you find someone to rent grass livery that is very poor ground?

Ours grass is good, but not that rich, and the fatties never get too bad on it - but then we section off smaller bits for them to eat. I think that and a combination of a very hilly field keeps the weight off!
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If you're on a large livery are there not enough horses turned out together to prevent the grass ever being that lush in great quantities?

Our horses do very well and we have 12 acres split into two separate fields, we have 4 horses. One is a 14.2hh of mixed breed but def some welsh in there and we section the field in the summer so they're in about 3 acres at a time. The pony is 22 now, we've had him since he was 7 and he's never suffered with laminitis or anything.

Personally I don't like grazing muzzles and prefer just proper grass management where horses are concerned.

I would have thought you can't be the only person on your yard (unless v small) who has a horse with a tendency to pile on the lbs so surely the livery YO can agree to sectioning off paddocks - how hard can it be?
 
Yes my big Irish horse has a Greenguard Grazing Muzzle on 24/7 during the summer and he only has it off when he comes in to be exercised, it is the only way I can keep his weight down to compete him. My horses are going out 24/7 tonight, yyyiiiiiiippppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Will hasten to add that this is the 8th summer I have had to do it with my big horse and he had no ill or lasting effects and this was on the recommendation of my vets after the first summer with him getting grossly overweight and me struggling to get keep him fit.
 
I am having to muzzle my mare 24/7, she has been turned away as she is unsound - bringing her in is not an option sadly at the moment. The grass where we are is lush, and whilst I am trying to find alternative grazing for her, at the moment muzzle on 24/7 is better than her becoming obese and getting lami IMO.
 
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I would have thought you can't be the only person on your yard (unless v small) who has a horse with a tendency to pile on the lbs so surely the livery YO can agree to sectioning off paddocks - how hard can it be?

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Indeed - or dedicate one field to be the 'fatty field', which initially gets grazed off for a week or so by some skinny horses and then stick all the fatties out on it and keep it bare.
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My fatty is out 24/7 at the moment on a field that's just under an acre with a skitty TB mare as a companion. The field was grazed all last summer and winter, and apart from a week off this spring while it was rolled and harrowed, it simply hasn't had a chance to grow back very much. It's lovely and green but very short-cropped and they have to work hard to seek out new growth. This approach means it's the first year I've not had to muzzle her at all, although she is in full hard work of course.
 
<font color="purple"> I know a lot of people don't like muzzles, but personally I would rather she was muzzled part time than stood in a stable all the time fat and with lami, but that’s just how I feel and I know my horse isn't bothered by having the muzzle on as long as she can go out with her friends. When I got to turn her out in the mornings she is trying to stuff her head into the muzzle before I even get a chance to take it off the peg or undo it, so I guess she really isn't all too bothered by having it on.

The horses are split at our yard into mares and geldings, so from that side of things it’s not easy to get a 'fatties group' together. There are only 6 mares including mine, 3-4 of those don't need to be in fat fighters club. Aside from that we don't really have any paddocks for that kind of use.

I’m not on a large livery yard and as above we have split herds. We have 3 herds; small group of mares and two larger groups of geldings and each are rotated between their groups own two fields.
Our yard is managed very well and so is the grazing, I have no problems with that at all. It’s fine for those who have their own/rented land, but when on yards you have to do your best with the facilities you have and the rules.
I am completely happy with the yard I am on, I totally love being there, really couldn’t wish for a better yard and YO/YM, but we all have to be flexible and something’s just aren’t viable at times.

Thanks for your thoughts so far
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QR
This may not be possible/an option for you, but my good doer pony would simply never be at a yard where I couldn't manage the grass by fencing off a paddock/strip grazing if necessary, can you speak to your YO about whether this is possible? IMO the best thing for fatties over the summer is to be on poor, well grazed fields, out 24/7, so they have to keep moving to find new grass.

If the above is not an option, is she happy and comfortable in her muzzle? If so, I can't see what harm leaving it on would do, as long as you're sure she's happily drinking in it, and is constantly eating (just not much!) to keep her gut healthy. I would make a point of bringing her in and taking it off for at least half an hour every day though, just to give her time to scratch!
 
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I would have thought you can't be the only person on your yard (unless v small) who has a horse with a tendency to pile on the lbs so surely the livery YO can agree to sectioning off paddocks - how hard can it be?

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Indeed - or dedicate one field to be the 'fatty field', which initially gets grazed off for a week or so by some skinny horses and then stick all the fatties out on it and keep it bare.
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My fatty is out 24/7 at the moment on a field that's just under an acre with a skitty TB mare as a companion. The field was grazed all last summer and winter, and apart from a week off this spring while it was rolled and harrowed, it simply hasn't had a chance to grow back very much. It's lovely and green but very short-cropped and they have to work hard to seek out new growth. This approach means it's the first year I've not had to muzzle her at all, although she is in full hard work of course.

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My previous mare was a fatty, she was turned out in a fatty field and she would still get fat, think horse that had been inflated!!
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She was well ridden. Personally I would rather not muzzle a horse for 24hours a day, I used to have to bring mare in a night in the summer, I always tried to turn her out 24 hours a day, thinking this year will be different, but she always got too fat and I ended upo having to bring her in at night.

The above suggestions are all very sensible but in my experience it is not always that easy to get YO to agree to things. On my yard the fields are the way they are and the horses go wher they are put, my horse had to wait for a year for a space in the fatty field (there was a waiting list).

Good luck, its not easy owing a fatty.
 
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I know a lot of people don't like muzzles, but personally I would rather she was muzzled part time than stood in a stable all the time fat and with lami, but that’s just how I feel and I know my horse isn't bothered by having the muzzle on as long as she can go out with her friends.

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It's actually more to do with the fact that by muzzling 24/7 (which is against all manufacturers advice) you are preventing the horse from feeding correctly - ie constant supply of roughage passing through the system. This can obviously have serious health implications - one of which is colic.

I spent 14 years managing my 'fat' little mare - and she did wear a muzzle in her penultimate summer.

However, by far the best management for her was reduced intake of grass and maximum amount of exercise. This did sometimes mean that she would only have 6 hours out at grass out of 24. However, she was fit, well and content during these times because my management of her was very good.
 
I think you are being very responsible by acknowledging the fact that she needs to limit her grass intake. If she is happy and you're happy whats the problem. Far too many fat horses/ponies around atm that are overfed and under exercised.
 
<font color="purple"> Correct feeding, I do believe it is little and often, therefore the horse is constantly grazing whilst turned out, she is never at any point without food and the muzzle will not prevent her from eating, it just limits her from over eating.
As a native they were bred to be on scrub land, not lush fields, so buy wearing a muzzle where her intake is restricted to a more natural amount she can continue to eat without getting fat.

My horse is happy to have her muzzle on and that is my only option if she is to be turned out. What is most important aside from keeping her weight down and healthy is that she gets to be a horse, go out with the mares and is not stood in a stable on her own with lami due to being nonchalant.

She is exercised 6 days a week and looks in fabulous condition, but that is only because I watch her like a hawk and do the best I can for her.


Thanks Jakesmydog
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Again thanks for your thoughts
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It's actually more to do with the fact that by muzzling 24/7 (which is against all manufacturers advice) you are preventing the horse from feeding correctly - ie constant supply of roughage passing through the system.

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Not true, most muzzles have holes which allow for grazing. So they allow constant small amounts of grazing - 'trickle feeding' - which is what horses do naturally if they live on sparse grazing. If a horse has a muzzle off for half the day and gorges they are more likely to get colic I would believe from experience.

Having said this, I appreciate I am no expert and have anecdotally heard that muzzles shouldn't be worn all day and night.
 
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Not true, most muzzles have holes which allow for grazing

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Indeed - they all have holes in them.

However, they do not allow a horse to trickle feed. They allow small amounts of longer grass to pass through the holes.

If the horse is turned out on short grazing - then they will get no grass.

I am not opposed to grazing muzzles at all. If you see my post above, you'll see that I have used one.

Quite simply though, they should not be on 24/7.
 
That is certainly not my experience of it AmyMay - when I have used a muzzle in the past I found my pony could graze constantly on shorter grass, he just couldn't gobble it down! Longer grasss was a problem as when the muzzle pressed down onto it, it bent, rather than sticking through the hole.
 
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That is certainly not my experience of it AmyMay - when I have used a muzzle in the past I found my pony could graze constantly on shorter grass, he just couldn't gobble it down! Longer grasss was a problem as when the muzzle pressed down onto it, it bent, rather than sticking through the hole.

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Ah interesting, thanks Bex.
 
Just had another thought that it may depend on the brand of muzzle though...mine was one of the bucket ones; perhaps the greenguard style ones are different?

sorry OP - I'm going off at a tangent...
 
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Just had another thought that it may depend on the brand of muzzle though...mine was one of the bucket ones; perhaps the greenguard style ones are different?

sorry OP - I'm going off at a tangent...

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In my experience Greenguard are the same - long grass just bends over instead of going through the holes. There's an optimum grass length for grazing muzzle usage I think, which just confuses the situation further.
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QR
I've never used a muzzle, I've always prefered electric fencing and using strip grazing or a starvation paddock and hay.
Never had a laminitic pony to deal with either, even those that came in on the verge of it
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Why won't they let you strip graze?
I couldn't imagine leaving a muzzle on all the time
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Even with the ex racer I had who cribbed for scotland (YO and owner insisted he wore his collar all the time unless ridden
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) I used to sneak his off a fair bit.
I'm too soft I guess
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Interesting post, I'd love mine to be out 24/7 and do have the option of this but cob is a fatty and my pony is prone to laminitis.

Like you I can't strip graze or have a piggy paddock.

My cob in in from 10am until ten pm and then turned out in a muzzle (he wrecks muzzles I've spent £50 a week on muzzles before now), he's worked 5 days a week, fed soaked hay in a small holed haynet when in during the day and given Equibites to ensure he gets his vitamins and minerals.

This is what works reasonably successfully for me.
 
My cushings pony is out 24/7. For about 4 hours of that she is out on longer grass in a greenguard grazing muzzle, the rest of the time she is on a starvation paddock. This regime was recommended by my vet and we have managed to keep her virtually laminitis free (she sometimes gets a bit sore after her feet are trimmed), for the last 3 years. I would not leave the muzzle on 24/7 because in warm weather she gets quite sweaty round her nose and I am sure this would set up irritation if left on for too long.
 
What about using two different types of Muzzle.

A bucket one Like this

http://www.horseloverz.co.uk/Roma-Grazing-Muzzle-pr-316937.html

during the day and then swapping it for this one (which IMO Is comfier but does allow more grass intake then the bucket ones) over night

http://www.dinkyrugs.co.uk/23843.html

If she could have an hour or so turnout without it on in between then that would be good.

Millie my Section A has in the past had her Dinky muzzle on 24/7 without any problems. This year she is just having a bucket one on during the day and at night she is being brought in to a bare part of the field with the other fatties. She is doing well with this.

Have you thought about trying NAF slimline Supplement? I have never tried it but there have been some great reviews on here about it.
 
Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

I use the old style green guard grazing muzzle so don't really have the problems with air flow being restricted or them getting hot and sweaty.
Personally i don't like the bucket types like shires etc and have always hadmy green guard which i've had three yrs now and it is still in working order all though it might be its last summer and then i will need to get a new one. I think its done me very proud with pretty much daily use over the three yrs.

Thanks
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