Gordon Elliott

Kamikaze said:
Yes I think they get the best care when alive. But as soon as dead, injured or just not winning they are discarded without a second thought.
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That’s a bit unfair. I think it’s the same across all equine disciplines and leisure, some act ethically for their horses, some don’t. It’s just more visible in racing because the numbers are higher and those that fall through the gaps are more likely to struggle in the hands of muppets given their breed. I do think TB welfare post racing is generally improving.
 
My OH is vaguely following this. He used to work in hunt kennels, he has skinned hundreds of dead animals. He said although you aren't sentimental about them, you don't weep over every dead hunter that gets shipped in, nor do you mock them. He's a pragmatic farmer and he is disgusted.
 
Just to give a little perspective I want to say how much more upset I would be if I saw footage of him abusing a living horse than I am seeing him 'disrespect' the body of a dead one.

Lots of us will be sitting on a leather sofa, or a leather covered dining room chair reading this thread. I know it's not the same and I'm not defending him at all. He really should have known better, not least for the sake of the reputation of racing. But the whole social media issue is getting totally out of hand. Some of the comments on FB are just vile.
 
ihatework said:
That’s a bit unfair. I think it’s the same across all equine disciplines and leisure, some act ethically for their horses, some don’t. It’s just more visible in racing because the numbers are higher and those that fall through the gaps are more likely to struggle in the hands of muppets given their breed. I do think TB welfare post racing is generally improving.
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Yes I agree some are better than others. I have only experience of 2 trainers. One who had had soli in training for 2 years. Was very rude when I contacted him via his forum and couldn’t even remember him despite having him there less tho an a year before. I understand he has a lot of horses in and can’t remember the details of all of them but he didn’t give 2 hoots about the horse. And please could i go away.

The other had given me a horse on trial for a week before buying. When I sent him back I said when I would be bringing back. Yard was deserted. Horses stable already filled. The lad who eventually came out grabbed the horse and grumbled about no stables as he led him away. A good 2 months later the horses owner rang me. Asking why I hadn’t bought the horse and where was the horse now?

So just my very limited experience but they just wanted rid of the horses.
 
ownedbyaconnie said:
I find it almost impressive (and sad) how you and a few others manage to turn a thread of any topic into an opportunity to bully/belittle/pick on YCBM. If you don't like what she has to say then be a grown up about it and put her on UI.
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I did wonder what was going on here.....

Sad that someone feels the need to do this.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I cannot speak for minesadouble or ycbm .

I have 3 times had a dog be pts on the operating table. I have not asked for the body to be returned or individual cremation, I do not want the ashes back, although I have asked for the collar and lead. As soon as the animal is dead , it's gone. Our dogs showed me that on the day that we had a 15 yr old Lab bitch pts at home, because she was terrified of the vets' surgery, having had to stay overnight previously. Vet did the deed with the Lab in front of the fire, with the other dogs out of the way. Then we let the other dogs in to see what had happened. They trampled all over the body, as if it were a rug, trying to get to talk to the vet. They would never have trampled on her when she was alive but a couple of minutes later, at most, and they knew that she wasn't there.

I, too have held horses to be shot, I usually go into the house for the winching, because I really don't want that to be my last memory of the horse - that certainly isn't a dignified/respectful process.
I wouldn't have sat on the dead horse, nor do I think that anyone else should but that is because I think of the owner, rather than because I think it is intrinsically wrong to sit on a dead horse. It is pretty obvious from the photo that the trainer was showing off to someone and that most definitely does make his actions wrong on that day.

I must admit that I am more concerned about living horses being treated properly than dead ones. It makes me very cross when I read on here about people riding horses when they know the tack doesn't fit, because they can't get an appointment with a saddle fitter. I would rather get het up about that tbh. But if my horse was in training with GE, I would be moving it pdq, because of the attitude, rather than because of the action, iyswim.
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You've summed up my feelings on the situation more succinctly than I would manage. I've seen geldings in a herd kick and pick on one who was old and struggling. Humans are a lot more sentimental about these things. Whilst I find the action abhorrent, it is his thought process (or lack of) that led to his actions that would have me running for the hills.

But no, I wouldn't have sat on a dead horse out of respect for what the horse had given me as a trainer and also out of respect for their owners who are likely to have a more sentimental view.

Completely agree re concern for living horses. I know people at my yard think I am mad at how often I get the saddler, physio, dentist, farrier out. How much time, research and money I put into her feed, how picky I am with trainers, transporters etc. A lady at my yard had the saddler for the first time in years and said he was only going to be with her for 30 mins. I don't like to get involved but casually mentioned my saddle fittings last longer than that and I have them done every few months, how could she be sure everything was checked, was he seeing her ride etc and I didn't really get an answer...
 
Death affects people in strange ways. Often people who witness a death, even of a stranger, report having an overwhelming desire to be in contact with them physically. Even though they know they're dead.
I've seen dead horses being winched or even butchered to assist removal. People have ways of coping with this but it's not always what you expect IME.
I think it's unlikely that Elliott has spent this long around horses and gained results without having some kind of care and understanding for them.
 
Possessing a leather sofa, although I personally don’t, does not preclude you from wishing that the animal from whom the hide was taken did not have a good life and a good death.

There is a world of difference from being matter-of-fact about death, and being irreverent and mocking about it.

Clodagh said:
Rumours on FB that the Chievely park horses were moved last night to Henry de Bromhead. I like him, and if it is true I do hope they run well for him after such a short acclimitisation.
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I hope that this is true.

ETA That would be these.

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Fellewell said:
I've seen dead horses being winched or even butchered to assist removal. People have ways of coping with this but it's not always what you expect IME.
I think it's unlikely that Elliott has spent this long around horses and gained results without having some kind of care and understanding for them.
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Our local fallen stock man obviously needs to deal with bodies on a daily basis. He’s respectful of every animal. Showing something respect isn’t the same as caring for it in order for it to perform to its best.
 
Steerpike said:
It has been confirmed Cheveley Park stud are moving their horses
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Be interesting if they are doing this just in case he's banned from Cheltenham, or if its actually because they are disgusted at what he's done

I'm sure the delightful person who's horses run in Burgandy silks and was so keen to defend GE yesterday won't care, though if he's banned from Cheltenham, he may do a temp move...
 
Clodagh said:
Rumours on FB that the Chievely park horses were moved last night to Henry de Bromhead. I like him, and if it is true I do hope they run well for him after such a short acclimitisation.
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Just confirmed on Racing TV that the Cheveley Park horses have moved/moving to Henry De Bromhead and to Willie Mullins, reported that the unbeaten Envoi Allen going to Henry.
 
Andie02 said:
Just confirmed on Racing TV that the Cheveley Park horses have moved/moving to Henry De Bromhead and to Willie Mullins, reported that the unbeaten Envoi Allen going to Henry.
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Losing these horses but especially Envoi Allen is a huge blow to Gordon Elliot, I’m beginning to think this is all getting out of proportion.
 
A statement from Rob James today...

I would just like to apologise for my actions which were wholly inappropriate and disrespectful," said James.

Speaking to the Irish Field, James added: "I sincerely apologise to the owners of the mare, the staff who cared for her, the horseracing industry and all followers of horse racing for my actions.

"To try defending my stupidity at the time would add further insult and hurt to the many loyal people that have supported me during my career. I have caused embarrassment to my employers, my family and most importantly the sport I love.

"I am heartbroken by the damage I have caused and will do my best to try and make amends to those hurt by my conduct."

Still disgusting and utterly inexcusable behaviour, but at least he is man enough to admit his stupidity and not fabricate a feeble excuse to worm his way out of the situation.
 
minesadouble said:
Just to give a little perspective I want to say how much more upset I would be if I saw footage of him abusing a living horse than I am seeing him 'disrespect' the body of a dead one.

Lots of us will be sitting on a leather sofa, or a leather covered dining room chair reading this thread. I know it's not the same and I'm not defending him at all. He really should have known better, not least for the sake of the reputation of racing. But the whole social media issue is getting totally out of hand. Some of the comments on FB are just vile.
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You expressed my feelings very well, except that I have the bonus of not doing FB.
 
There is also a video of jockeyRob James sitting on a dead horse. It’s diabolical and I only hope the Horse racing board will take these two disrespectful people to account and ban them from racing. It’s a shame that they have brought horse racing into disrepute as the majority of trainers and owners and jockeys have more respect for the horses in their care.
 
fankino04 said:
I'm not
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Agreed.

Every action has a consequence, be that good or bad.

His ego got the better of him.

He is an adult who should have known better.

He is a professional sportsperson at the top of his game, representing a sport which is more often than not under fire.

He's brought the sport into further disrepute.

He deserves to reap the consequences of his actions.

We all make mistakes, sometimes we pay in the harshest possible way, whether fair, ott or not.

None of us are invincible and this is a very hard lesson that I'm sure Gordon will learn well.
 
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Sir barnaby said:
There is also a video of jockeyRob James sitting on a dead horse. It’s diabolical and I only hope the Horse racing board will take these two disrespectful people to account and ban them from racing. It’s a shame that they have brought horse racing into disrepute as the majority of trainers and owners and jockeys have more respect for the horses in their care.
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And you know this because ? Two old photos emerge and suddenly everyone is an expert
 
ownedbyaconnie said:
I find it almost impressive (and sad) how you and a few others manage to turn a thread of any topic into an opportunity to bully/belittle/pick on YCBM. If you don't like what she has to say then be a grown up about it and put her on UI.
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Agree 100% - very childish behaviour which is seen repeatedly ?
 
bonny said:
Losing these horses but especially Envoi Allen is a huge blow to Gordon Elliot, I’m beginning to think this is all getting out of proportion.
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Gordon Elliott has landed a blow on racing the size of a bomb. He deserves every horse being removed. Sadly the staff will suffer far more than the trainer.
 
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