Zorro123
Member
Sorry got wrong top price. It was lot 4, 18000€, by William Fox Pitt.
Goresbridge Go for Gold Sale - Advice
- Thread starter justine1559
- Start date
amage
Well-Known Member
Who are the top four dealers who run things here?? I know of a lot more high profile dealers in the game than just 4?!
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
Zorro 123 my Iroko is out of a NH TB mare. He actually is quite talented but also gets a lot of good things from his mom. He's 4 and jumping 1.10m. No he's not out there impressing with extraordinary scope but all the kids are the same. They do want needs to be done easily. He also has a great brain and isn't fussed about much. I chose Iroko because he stood in the States for awhile and bred a lot of TB mares and had some nice quality horses. Not sure he would suit the Irish mare base as well. When I choose stallions I don't really go for the hot sire. I go for what will bring out the best in my mare. 
Terri
Terri
Zorro123
Member
Thank you Equilibrium I'll bear that in mind when I go back for another look.
Zorro123
Member
Amage.
Of course you are correct that there are many high profile dealers in Ireland, but not many who are regularly selling very highly priced event horses abroad. I think the rules of this site would forbid naming (and shaming?) them on here, but simply think of the best known horse name prefixes and you'll not be far away.
Of course you are correct that there are many high profile dealers in Ireland, but not many who are regularly selling very highly priced event horses abroad. I think the rules of this site would forbid naming (and shaming?) them on here, but simply think of the best known horse name prefixes and you'll not be far away.
Mickyjoe
Well-Known Member
Zorro whether you intended or not, you may now have completely spoilt the chances for more than one person at this year's sale with your rumours and innuendoes. There aren't many horses in the sale as per your description, so I would respectfully suggest that you remove your earlier post as you may completely sabotage an honest person's chance to sell their horse.
I have no connection to any horses in this year's sales, but I hate to see this sort of rumour mongering from anonymous people on an internet site - especially ones which could do such damage to completely innocent people .
As for the reference to the "big four" there are certainly more than 4 producers with well known prefixes and there are plenty that I know who have been around for a good 20/30 years and who are very well respected.
I have no connection to any horses in this year's sales, but I hate to see this sort of rumour mongering from anonymous people on an internet site - especially ones which could do such damage to completely innocent people .
As for the reference to the "big four" there are certainly more than 4 producers with well known prefixes and there are plenty that I know who have been around for a good 20/30 years and who are very well respected.
amage
Well-Known Member
Hear hear very well said
Zorro123
Member
Mickyjoe and Amage
Firstly I totally accept that the vast, vast majority of the producers in Ireland are good people trying to make a living and if you read my posts I have never suggested otherwise. I have no doubt that I have bought many times from the producers you refer to and paid a fair price for the horse at that time.
The people I am referring to aren't doing this. They are creating a false market with massive margins. Yes they produce the odd horse, but mostly they sell bought in horses, or front other people's horses with huge mark ups that the real producer will never share, or even know about. This false market is what I'm on about.
As to rumour and innuendoes- What I have written is fact not rumour. A horse at this years sale failed its vetting on something that doesn't go away. One of the dealers I refer to sold the horse at a big mark up to what the owner was to actually receive, but it failed the vetting.
If you honestly believe that this thread will "completely sabotage an honest persons chance to sell their horse", then you give me more credit than I deserve. How an "honest man" that is selling a horse that failed a vetting is "completely innocent" as you claim is beyond me. Given these circumstances I would always warn any potential purchaser to beware. This is an ELITE sale, where horses will be sold for top, top prices. When horses fail vettings they normally are sold cheaply for that reason and the buyer takes an understood gamble. THIS sale should not carry that risk.
So for the avoidance of any doubt are either of you willing to condemn this sellers actions or is he still innocent?!
Firstly I totally accept that the vast, vast majority of the producers in Ireland are good people trying to make a living and if you read my posts I have never suggested otherwise. I have no doubt that I have bought many times from the producers you refer to and paid a fair price for the horse at that time.
The people I am referring to aren't doing this. They are creating a false market with massive margins. Yes they produce the odd horse, but mostly they sell bought in horses, or front other people's horses with huge mark ups that the real producer will never share, or even know about. This false market is what I'm on about.
As to rumour and innuendoes- What I have written is fact not rumour. A horse at this years sale failed its vetting on something that doesn't go away. One of the dealers I refer to sold the horse at a big mark up to what the owner was to actually receive, but it failed the vetting.
If you honestly believe that this thread will "completely sabotage an honest persons chance to sell their horse", then you give me more credit than I deserve. How an "honest man" that is selling a horse that failed a vetting is "completely innocent" as you claim is beyond me. Given these circumstances I would always warn any potential purchaser to beware. This is an ELITE sale, where horses will be sold for top, top prices. When horses fail vettings they normally are sold cheaply for that reason and the buyer takes an understood gamble. THIS sale should not carry that risk.
So for the avoidance of any doubt are either of you willing to condemn this sellers actions or is he still innocent?!
maccachic
Well-Known Member
Does the horse not have to have a vet certificate for the sale? If so, any vet who lies on a vetting will have a case to answer. What is something that doesn't go away?
Mickyjoe
Well-Known Member
Zorro my point was that there is more than one horse that fits your description in the sale. Whether you meant to or not you may now have affected the chances of the others too.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Horses fail vettings for all sorts of reasons not least because the purchaser has second thoughts.
If it really is something that wont go away it will keep failing the vettings then! Goresbridge will not risk the sales reputation by having dodgy vets on the panel which is what you are implying.
It really is the collateral damage that comments like this cause that is the issue here!! However I am sure that these comments wont damage any horses chances as the majority buying wont be inexperienced that is why my point earlier was that inexperienced buyers should avoid high profile sales like this as they get sucked in and they are playing with the big boys there.
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pootler
Well-Known Member
I would like to clarify a few things about the vettings at Go for Gold. My understanding is that horses sold at the Monart sale are sold with clean vettings, they only accept horses for the sale with a clean bill of health.
I attented the GfG sale last year, I was interested in a few of the horses and was able to request copies of the xrays prior to the sale, I had my own vet review them.
At the sale, all buyers can speak directly to the vet at the sale, in this case Hugh Suffern who is a highly respected vet. I had a list of horses I was interested in, I sat in a private room with him and discussed each vetting. He told me that one of the horses on my list had changes on his xrays that meant he would never stand up to eventing, this horse later sold but for peanuts.
The vettings also noted things like sarcoids, capped hocks etc. I felt very comfortable that I was being given a fair and honest vetting. I was interested in a horse who ended up selling for megabucks. I had the xrays checked prior to the sale, my vet wasn´t happy with the quality of the xrays and asked for them to be re-sent. The auctioneers arranged this without any quibble.
It felt like an open and honest process to me.
I attented the GfG sale last year, I was interested in a few of the horses and was able to request copies of the xrays prior to the sale, I had my own vet review them.
At the sale, all buyers can speak directly to the vet at the sale, in this case Hugh Suffern who is a highly respected vet. I had a list of horses I was interested in, I sat in a private room with him and discussed each vetting. He told me that one of the horses on my list had changes on his xrays that meant he would never stand up to eventing, this horse later sold but for peanuts.
The vettings also noted things like sarcoids, capped hocks etc. I felt very comfortable that I was being given a fair and honest vetting. I was interested in a horse who ended up selling for megabucks. I had the xrays checked prior to the sale, my vet wasn´t happy with the quality of the xrays and asked for them to be re-sent. The auctioneers arranged this without any quibble.
It felt like an open and honest process to me.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
They put a few vetting failures through the sale last year. The auctioneer announced the main vetting notes before bidding started. I personally think 'go for gold' is slightly misleading, it is not a sale full of superstars, granted there will be a handful of good quality that fetch good prices, but I tend to think the prices get inflated slightly by foreign buyers who don't intend to go home empty handed.
I don't think you could blame anyone for trying to get maximum return on their horses. No one is forcing anyone to buy their horses after all!
I don't think you could blame anyone for trying to get maximum return on their horses. No one is forcing anyone to buy their horses after all!
Zorro123
Member
Mickyjoe: Perhaps that may be the case and I obviously have no intention of doing that. But I take your point that there may be unintended consequences to my post. I would suggest that if somebody has read it on here then some direct questioning should clarify the situation and exclude or otherwise the horse they are looking at.
RW67
New User
Very interesting thread.
I agree Hugh Suffern has a good reputation and he's not going to risk it at this sale, but does he vet all the 70 lots before the sale? Goresbridge has a panel of vets, I'm sure its not down to one man.
Pootler: I agree with your post. The problem with this sale is it is marketed as something that it is not, i.e. an elite sale. Clearly its just a Gorsebridge sale of potential event horses. Horses with vet comments that doubt their fitness for purpose should not be in an ELITE SALE. Pootler states that this is not the case at the Monart sale, which I see is stated on their website information.
I don't attend the GFG sale for this reason and the points that Zorro123 makes regarding price manipulation, which I gather is rife. My friends in Ireland have warned me many times that anyone from outwith the inside knowledge that is in Ireland risks a very heavy fall. The good bit is we probably will never know it!
I agree Hugh Suffern has a good reputation and he's not going to risk it at this sale, but does he vet all the 70 lots before the sale? Goresbridge has a panel of vets, I'm sure its not down to one man.
Pootler: I agree with your post. The problem with this sale is it is marketed as something that it is not, i.e. an elite sale. Clearly its just a Gorsebridge sale of potential event horses. Horses with vet comments that doubt their fitness for purpose should not be in an ELITE SALE. Pootler states that this is not the case at the Monart sale, which I see is stated on their website information.
I don't attend the GFG sale for this reason and the points that Zorro123 makes regarding price manipulation, which I gather is rife. My friends in Ireland have warned me many times that anyone from outwith the inside knowledge that is in Ireland risks a very heavy fall. The good bit is we probably will never know it!
pootler
Well-Known Member
I was looking for an ex racer a few years back and went to the Ascot and Doncaster sales. One thing that surprised me was that they came with vettings and some horses with what I thought were quite significant problems sold for a lot of money to racing yards.
A few of the horses at GfG that I was interested in sold for Pros to ride. At least one of them had changes showing on its xrays that may have made it difficult to sell on but shouldn't necessarily affect its work. Hugh pointed this out and asked whether I wanted to keep the horse or sell it on, he indicated it wouldn't be ideal if I wanted to produce him for sale (that then 5 year old horse went to novice mid season with its new rider).
I appreciate that we would all like to buy a 'perfect' horse but in reality how often do horses come with a clean bill of health. Should a horse be automatically written off? I am in two minds whether as an 'Elite' sale, the horses should all have clear vettings. What I think is important is that if there are any issues they are clearly highlighted on the vetting and potential purchasers have the opportunity to weigh up the risks. This of course assumes that the vetting was honestly undertaken in the first place.
A few of the horses at GfG that I was interested in sold for Pros to ride. At least one of them had changes showing on its xrays that may have made it difficult to sell on but shouldn't necessarily affect its work. Hugh pointed this out and asked whether I wanted to keep the horse or sell it on, he indicated it wouldn't be ideal if I wanted to produce him for sale (that then 5 year old horse went to novice mid season with its new rider).
I appreciate that we would all like to buy a 'perfect' horse but in reality how often do horses come with a clean bill of health. Should a horse be automatically written off? I am in two minds whether as an 'Elite' sale, the horses should all have clear vettings. What I think is important is that if there are any issues they are clearly highlighted on the vetting and potential purchasers have the opportunity to weigh up the risks. This of course assumes that the vetting was honestly undertaken in the first place.
RW67
New User
Pootler: well said.
Zorro123: I have also been looking at a horse by Iroko, and have the same reservations as you do. Anyone seen any event horses by Yashkan? I have seen a 4yr old by this stallion, its unbroken so have only seen him loose jump, but have doubts on his jumping ability. Moves well, and seems a brave type just unsure of his jump and I can't find anyone that has any knowledge of the stallion bar he was a good flat horse.
Zorro123: I have also been looking at a horse by Iroko, and have the same reservations as you do. Anyone seen any event horses by Yashkan? I have seen a 4yr old by this stallion, its unbroken so have only seen him loose jump, but have doubts on his jumping ability. Moves well, and seems a brave type just unsure of his jump and I can't find anyone that has any knowledge of the stallion bar he was a good flat horse.
TBB
Well-Known Member
I would assume that the GFG sale is calling itself elite as all the horses entered were inspected and picked for the sale based on their confirmation and performance and in the case of the ridden ones competition records. The horses are then vetted and xrayed and while Mr Suffern may not have vetted all the horses, it is very possible that he read and gave his opinion on all the sets of X Rays. It is possible that he did vet all the horses for the sale himself, one very well known vet (late) over here used to vet well over 100 horses in the weeks prior to some of the big sport horse sales (without x rays mind you).
I don't see any difference between the two sales TBH and would be surprised if Monart turned away any buyers, to do so would be doing a dis service to their vendors unless there was a chance the buyer might not pay, however, if rumours are to be believed, they have fallen out with Eventing Ireland and with some of the selectors for the GFG sale (The original one was held in Monart) so who knows! I do know someone who has put forward horses for both, sending the ones with the best record to the GFG and the others (Which had decent records) that they didn't think would get on the GFG to Monart.
I'm not connected with either sale and good luck to both, anything to improve the sales of Irishbred horses is welcome in my opinion and at the moment there seems to be room for both.
I don't see any difference between the two sales TBH and would be surprised if Monart turned away any buyers, to do so would be doing a dis service to their vendors unless there was a chance the buyer might not pay, however, if rumours are to be believed, they have fallen out with Eventing Ireland and with some of the selectors for the GFG sale (The original one was held in Monart) so who knows! I do know someone who has put forward horses for both, sending the ones with the best record to the GFG and the others (Which had decent records) that they didn't think would get on the GFG to Monart.
I'm not connected with either sale and good luck to both, anything to improve the sales of Irishbred horses is welcome in my opinion and at the moment there seems to be room for both.
pootler
Well-Known Member
Hi OP, I'd love to know if you went to the sales in the end and what you thought!