GRAND NATIONAL 2013

lcsd114 said:
I'm not saying that there are no runners in the race that are suited. I'm just saying that the "safety changes" have made it more attractive to owners with horses who have less experience and less form.
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I think you may have misunderstood. It's actually HARDER to get into the Grand National these days, not easier. One of the changes referred to is a tightening of the qualification criteria. The minimum age for a horse to run has been raised from six to seven years, so removing some of those "less experienced" horses immediately, and a horse has to have finished in the first four in a steeplechase over 3m or further.

The fact that the number of entries dropped from 102 in 2011 - the last year before the new qualification criteria was introduced - to 82 last year and 84 this year bears out the fact that fewer "unsuitable" horses are being entered in the first place.
 
Most good NH horses don’t arrive by chance, although there is a much greater opportunity for the horse with the mediocre pedigree making it over jumps than there is on the Flat due to more owner/breeder/trainers being involved at all levels.
On the Pardubice: I have been, and have not seen any man behind each fence with a gun. If he is there I must be blind. The only massive fence on the course is the taxis, all the more difficult as it comes up very early in the race, but other than that the fences are more akin to Punchestown and other cross country courses.
I was about to say something about breeding and the ‘National type’, but couldn’t have put it better than BigBuck’s. All I will add is that in UK/Eire most NH stallions are and always have been from the flat, so you can’t really say that we are getting ‘more flat’. We are, however, getting more obsessed with the precocious individual, due mainly to the shift in ownership patterns, and this has seen the rise of the speedier, racier type. Mare owners are also possibly less knowledgeable than in previous eras, and more inclined to be led by marketing/fashion rather than use their own eyes and ears and learn about bloodlines. The French are much better at standing stallions who have been campaigned over obstacles than we are (although we do have some), and finally, the Germans apparently have strict criteria regarding a stallion’s soundness, so it is good to see German blood making its way into the NH scene.
On the National itself, as mentioned by other posters, speed is one of the riskiest elements of NH racing (a huge problem at Cheltenham also when the ground is fast, compared with years when it is slow). This is the result of many things. People have already mentioned lower fences, better quality (faster) horses and drainage, but the sport is also highly professional these days, and both horses and jockeys are fitter. The good, fast, fit horse is not by definition the safest jumper, but he is the one most likely to qualify and run. It’s just a different race now from the original, and for so many reasons.
 
flashmans said:
Not sure if this is new news, but I was just reading a bit on ATR and at the end of the article it says the maximum field is 30 runners... down 10 isn't it?

http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?ref=RSS+Feed&nav=news&hlid=533535&lid=PA+Racing+Feed&title=Alfie+out+of+Irish+National&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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BBC news today still saying 40. The horses will be lined up well behind the tape and riders have been told that false starts and headlong rushes at the beginning of what is after all a 9 minute race won't be tolerated, also that they will be looking for them to make use of more of the course width.
 
Does anyone know when we find out which horse is allocated to which number (as we have a syndicate at work) - and we've all drawn NUMBERS?

Thanks
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
riders have been told that false starts and headlong rushes at the beginning of what is after all a 9 minute race won't be tolerated,
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Are they simply supposed to ignore the fact that the safest place to be in a big field is at the front, then?


They do it for a reason, the answer is either to pacemake the first portion of the race or reduce the number in the field.
 
Double_choc_lab said:
I believe why there was such an outcry after last years race was due to the camera coverage.
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no, it was due to the horse deaths!

There would have been nothing for the cameras to see if the horses had not died.

What you mean, surely, is that you want the deaths hidden so that the public do not see them and get upset about them.

You cannot have this argument both ways. Either the deaths are acceptable and we should all see them as they are, or they are not. Suggesting that they should be hidden, as several posters have, just shows how wrong the people involved know that they are.
 
Alec Swan said:
It may appear that I've such a vendetta, but that isn't the case. What amazes me is that such an inept, and from the equine, the jump aspect and the the racing perspective, that the rspca's opinion is given any credibility, is beyond me, and others too, I suspect. The opinions of jockeys and trainers would be of far greater value.



And behind every race, here in the UK, a man with a gun follows. He's called a vet.

Alec.
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Alec if the RSPCA came along and told you to do something to a horse of yours which you knew was wrong, would you do it? No, of course you would not.

So how is the RSPCA to blame if Aintree are stupid enough to make changes that they know make the race more dangerous???
 
cptrayes said:
Alec if the RSPCA came along and told you to do something to a horse of yours which you knew was wrong, would you do it? No, of course you would not.

So how is the RSPCA to blame if Aintree are stupid enough to make changes that they know make the race more dangerous???
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An interesting question.......

....in short, those who've accepted the advice of a collection of well intentioned clowns, have indeed, been stupid. Stupid in that they have acquiesced, and whilst doing so, empowered a group who whilst having no experience, or interest in horses or racing, are seen as having an opinion which is of value.

Horse racing should be administered to, monitored by, and overseen, by the Jockey Club, but there was a most able man, who a few years ago referred to the JC board, as being spineless, and he was right.

How those with authority can cosy up to idiots, is beyond me.

Alec.
 
My point of view is based on the fact that I know as a rider if a horse doesn't want to do something, noboy is ever gonna be able to get it to it...simple as. That is why I think the GN should continue because at the end of the day the horses love it, its what they are bred for. Yes, I think alterations since the original fences e.g. bechers do make it more safe but I think changes need to stop because as many of you have already said as the fences get smaller the race gets faster.

Besides, I sometimes wonder how many of the 'protestors'/ RSPCA people have ever actually ridden/ have anything to do with horses?!
 
peteralfred said:
really, people still believe that?
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I certainly don't. It's pretty obvious to anyone that knows horses that, on the whole, they are highly compliant, easily coerced/trained animals. That is how they have been bred to be.

Furthermore, I don't believe that horses race because they love to do it. It's not as simple as that, and anyone who thinks so has their head in anthropomorphic la-la clouds, in my opinion.
 
fburton said:
I certainly don't. It's pretty obvious to anyone that knows horses that, on the whole, they are highly compliant, easily coerced/trained animals. That is how they have been bred to be.

Furthermore, I don't believe that horses race because they love to do it. It's not as simple as that, and anyone who thinks so has their head in anthropomorphic la-la clouds, in my opinion.
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quite-and I'm not a bunny hugger, horses need to have jobs-its just where the line is drawn.
 
I love my racing, love Cheltenham and all other meetings and mainly follow the jumps, BUT I LOATHE THE NATIONAL AND ALL RACES OVER THE NATIONAL COURSE.
 
BigBuck's said:
I think you may have misunderstood. It's actually HARDER to get into the Grand National these days, not easier.
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In any national there are a small handful of horses who have the potential to run a really good race.

The rest merely make up the field.

Reading the race cards, and pundits comments, certainly makes for interesting reading, and you have to wonder how many of the horses in any way qualified to be entered.
 
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Daffodil said:
I love my racing, love Cheltenham and all other meetings and mainly follow the jumps, BUT I LOATHE THE NATIONAL AND ALL RACES OVER THE NATIONAL COURSE.
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That's interesting. Do you watch the race? I could never put a horse through such an ordeal, but the race, itself, has become a religion!

Alec.
 
amymay said:
In any national there are a small handful of horses who have the potential to run a really good race.

The rest merely make up the field.

Reading the race cards, and pundits comments certainly makes for interesting reading, and you have to wonder how many of the horses in any way qualified to be entered.
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Go on then - what horses aren't qualified? And what's the criteria for qualification?
 
Caledonia said:
Go on then - what horses aren't qualified? And what's the criteria for qualification?
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Clearly all the horses listed as running are qualified:D

And yes, I'll hold my hand up and say that apart from what's readily available on the net: minimum age - seven, runners must have finished fourth or better in a steeplechase of at least three miles, I have no real idea what the entry requirement for each horse is.

But you do have to do have to wonder why horses who have no form are allowed to run the most challenging race.
 
amymay said:
Clearly all the horses listed as running are qualified:D

And yes, I'll hold my hand up and say that apart from what's readily available on the net: minimum age - seven, runners must have finished fourth or better in a steeplechase of at least three miles, I have no real idea what the entry requirement for each horse is.

But you do have to do have to wonder why horses who have no form are allowed to run the most challenging race.
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So which ones do you consider to have no form, and why?
 
amymay said:
Weird Al - PF4PP
Mumbles Head - 1133FP
Tatenen - 5U676
Auroras Encore - 0P45F5
Pentiffic - 770165
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Pentiffic - 770165 - is a reserve.
Auroras Encore - immediate recent form not great, but was 2nd in the Scottish National less than a year ago.
Tatenen - won just over a year ago, and his last run you can ignore as he was hampered twice and still finished 6th at Chelts out of 23 runners.
Mumbles Head - has been off since Dec last year on the back of a F and a PU, so would agree that is a worry - that said, his form before that was fine, so maybe he had a niggle that's been sorted.

There's horses in the race that I'd be more bothered about than those form wise.
 
Caledonia said:
There's horses in the race that I'd be more bothered about than those form wise.
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Oh, yes - I'd agree. Just easier to put those down here who most immediately looked as if they perhaps shouldn't be.

Either way, I look forward to Saturday, and hope that my beautiful Imperial Commander comes home safely and in front!
 
amymay said:
Oh, yes - I'd agree. Just easier to put those down here who most immediately looked as if they perhaps shouldn't be.

Either way, I look forward to Saturday, and hope that my beautiful Imperial Commander comes home safely and in front!
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Sorry, forgot Weird Al - he hates soft ground, and will be far better on a sound surface. He ran well last year until he tipped up.

I can't see IC winning, but he is class!
 
Alec: I'm torn between needing to know what happens - and watching it, and running away from the whole thing, having recorded it to see later if they all come home safely.

Still haven't decided what to do on Saturday (or the other races over the National course either!)
 
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