Grand National and Racing Yards

[Him_Indoors]

On the day of the Grand National, thought I'd run a thread on how in my opinion, some racing yards are such barbaric and awful places for such wonderful creatures to live in.


No, I'm not a member of some animal welfare activists group, I'm an ordinary guy who happened to have bought his wife a part share in a racer which subsequently became our total ownership; as soon as he did we retired him and now he lives the life of riley, being pampered looked after and cosseted each day.


Sure I accept that I will come in for a huge amount of abuse for starting this thread and publishing my views, but you know what, I don't give a fig as my views will never change.


Racing yards should be banned or heavily governed in a way that the horses are treated with dignity and respect and if any so called trainer is found to be abusing the animals, well a bolt gun to the head of that person might be just reward.


I do accept that not all yards are like this, however there are quite a few which are.


Ok, I'll get ready to duck all the flack that's going to be hurled at me .....

 

[Mike007]

Ok, I'll get ready to duck all the flack that's going to be hurled at me .....

I doubt if you will get much of anything hurled at you . You have merely given your opinion ,but no substance or evidence to back it up. Just comes across as a rant actualy.

 

[Him_Indoors]

I doubt if you will get much of anything hurled at you . You have merely given your opinion ,but no substance or evidence to back it up. Just comes across as a rant actualy.

Mike, thanks for replying.
I do have evidence to back up my thoughts and opinions, photos dates times etc, but I wouldn't even attempt to publish these on this forum.
If my opinions come across as a rant, then honestly I think you have paid me a massive complement as I still feel very bitter towards the trainer and his barbaric daily working methods. Have a great weekend.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I'm glad you took responsibility for your ex-racer's retirement. We have quite a few people on here who own ex-racers and have retrained them to successfully enjoy a new career.
I don't like the GN either but I don't share your views about racing yards in general. Some are good, some are bad. I'd like to see an end to bad practices in all areas of equestrianism and there is certainly enough money in racing for it to clean up its act about over breeding and retraining.

 

[Him_Indoors]

I'm glad you took responsibility for your ex-racer's retirement. We have quite a few people on here who own ex-racers and have retrained them to successfully enjoy a new career.
I don't like the GN either but I don't share your views about racing yards in general. Some are good, some are bad. I'd like to see an end to bad practices in all areas of equestrianism and there is certainly enough money in racing for it to clean up its act about over breeding and retraining.

As I said, I do accept that not all yards are like this; unfortunately we weren't too lucky as when buying into a syndicate with our beautiful chap, he was already in situ at this particular yard.

I'm sure there are some great yards out there and good luck to them, but when the National finishes today, I wonder how many horses won't be returning to either good or bad yards, and all in the name of 'sport'.
Thanks for your reply.

 

[nervous nelly]

It's like any home for any animal there are good ones and awful ones sorry you had such a bad experience and I'm glad your horse is no enjoing his retirement

 

[Patterdale]

I doubt if you will get much of anything hurled at you . You have merely given your opinion ,but no substance or evidence to back it up. Just comes across as a rant actualy.

This.

It's like anything in life, there are good examples and bad examples.

Debate is good, but a rant like you did with no reaaons given doesn't really encourage sensible debate.

You don't need to name and shame, but what are your reasons for being so unhappy with your horses care? Did they neglect him? Not feed him? What?

I've worked on many racing yards and have a good friend who's a trainer. On their yard, each horse is turned out with a friend EVERY day, given top quality care and vet attention, and generally cared for like the well deserving beasts that they are. This has been my over riding experience of racing yards, and I have worked in various aspects of the industry for a long time.

Saying 'I had a bad experience so therefore they're ALL bad and should be BANNED' is just silly and it comes across as you're looking to pick a fight.

 

[Patterdale]

when the National finishes today, I wonder how many horses won't be returning to either good or bad yards, and all in the name of 'sport'.

Oh didn't you know? They shoot the losers on crossing the line and make the others watch as a warning......:rolleyes3:

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

It's like any home for any animal there are good ones and awful ones sorry you had such a bad experience and I'm glad your horse is no enjoing his retirement

If you are concerned about welfare of any animal, there is legislation and proper reporting authorities.

You could also have complained directly to the licenced trainer.

I have worked for about ten trainers, and have only been on one yard where I would not send a horse, nor would I advise anyone to work there as staff were also treated badly and not paid according to Racing Authority rules.

I have witnessed someone verbally abusing a child and I intervened. I was told that it was none of my business [child needed the toilet, he was obviously fearful of bully father]. But if we ignore such people they will consider it is "their right" to continue.

I have seen people shouting at [timid] dogs, animals with very sensitive hearing, these people have no empathy with animals, but no way would they be warned by the authorities for such behaviour. I might comment, but only in a public place, for fear that their aggression was turned on me.

Difficult to believe that people would openly abuse a racehorse in front of a witness, and as owners pay a lot of money to keep a horse in training it is not in the interests of the trainer to use questionable methods. I am sure there may be exceptions, but they risk losing their licences, and their livelihood.

 

[Him_Indoors]

This.

It's like anything in life, there are good examples and bad examples.

Debate is good, but a rant like you did with no reaaons given doesn't really encourage sensible debate.

You don't need to name and shame, but what are your reasons for being so unhappy with your horses care? Did they neglect him? Not feed him? What?

I've worked on many racing yards and have a good friend who's a trainer. On their yard, each horse is turned out with a friend EVERY day, given top quality care and vet attention, and generally cared for like the well deserving beasts that they are. This has been my over riding experience of racing yards, and I have worked in various aspects of the industry for a long time.

Saying 'I had a bad experience so therefore they're ALL bad and should be BANNED' is just silly and it comes across as you're looking to pick a fight.

Honestly, I'm not looking for argument or fight.

If you read my posts, you will note that I say that I accept there are some good yards, and I wish them good luck; go on, nip back up and have a look.

I guess that my 'internal combustion' has risen because of the National and the rate at which so many horses are lost. Racing yards are all about M O N E Y, they all are, they're businesses; it's just that there are some yards where the animal welfare is isn't the paramount importance, and that in my book, is wrong.

Lets all keep our fingers crossed that no horses have to be destroyed today at the National, BUT if there is, give thought to this post and my reasons behind it, namely that my wife and I couldn't just sit back and watch our horse be ill treated, and as soon as we had 100% say in what happens in his life, we relieved him of his screaming nightmares.

 

[Kaylum]

Any where that animals are kept can be bad. It's not just racing, riding schools, livery yards, private owners. Why did you buy a part share did you not go get everything checked out before hand? See the yard or didn't you understand about racing or horses. To fuel a business it needs money to carry on. Without that money there is no business. You fuelled the business.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Honestly, I'm not looking for argument or fight.

If you read my posts, you will note that I say that I accept there are some good yards, and I wish them good luck; go on, nip back up and have a look.

I guess that my 'internal combustion' has risen because of the National and the rate at which so many horses are lost. Racing yards are all about M O N E Y, they all are, they're businesses; it's just that there are some yards where the animal welfare is isn't the paramount importance, and that in my book, is wrong.

Lets all keep our fingers crossed that no horses have to be destroyed today at the National, BUT if there is, give thought to this post and my reasons behind it, namely that my wife and I couldn't just sit back and watch our horse be ill treated, and as soon as we had 100% say in what happens in his life, we relieved him of his screaming nightmares.

Welfare is of importance. On any racing yard there is a bonus pool for staff, which is part of the prize money. We don't know which horse will contribute to the prize pool so it is important to treat every horse as though it is as valuable as the stable star.
I know there are yards where horses are worked very hard, but I have never heard of a horse having screaming nightmares. Some are very highly strung, and may prefer retirement in a field with food, water, shelter, companionship, and veterinary attention. Some retired horses actually prefer to stay in a racing yard, or need ongoing professional care in racehorse retirement yards, and as long as their owners are happy to finance them, it works out quite well.
Most of the top owners in NH have suitable premises and staff to look after horses in retirement or when resting. Some may be sold at public auction, which is a bit of a lottery, but no more so for a racehorse than for any horse.

 

[AliceCrail]

The thing is, there are a lot of yards, and like anything you are going to get the odd one that does not live up to the standard of the rest of them.

Racing yards in general have their own way of doing things, and in some the horses may seem to treated like machines. It might seem a bit like a factory. However in every single yard are hardworking staff that do it for the genuine love of horses and the sport. There are those who cannot afford their own horses, but who go in on their days off to make sure 'their' horses have had their hay put in the right place, who spend their own money on a thicker poly pad to make it more comfortable for the horse, who buy smart brushes, and bags of carrots for the horses in their care.

Of course there are the rubbish ones too, but I think you would be very unlucky to find a yard where no one cared a fig for any of the horses.

I'm sorry the OP had a bad experience, and how lovely for your horse to be given a retirement with you.

 

[littleshetland]

Hmmm - this could turn into an interesting debate. I have had some small experience of racing yards. My concern was not the actual treatment of the animals while they were proving to be useful or potentially useful - their needs seem to be adequately met. My concern has always been what happens to the ones that are deemed no good for the job? I believe that it really is only a tiny percentage that are lucky enough to fall into the hands of a knowledgeable and caring new owner who is willing to put in the effort to re-train them for another job, and not enough are pts, rather than shoved around from pillar to post so sellers can make a few hundred quid here and there. Where ambition and big bucks go hand in hand, I'm afraid I become rather sceptical.

And no, I'm no fan of the Grand National either.

 

[nervous nelly]

I disagree not all racing yards are about money, the grooms are on so little money that most of them fo it for the love of the animal and the sport and since they are the people that would have dealt hands on with your horse every day I can only presume that it is grooms that abused your horse. What exactly happened to your horse to make you think he was abused? I am not denying that there is a lot of money in racing but those at the bottom of the pecking order are paid minimum wage if that to work long hard hours often exercising horses that outside of racing many would deem dangerous!

 

[Dizzydancer]

same thread different year- why do we rise to the bait!!
completely agree with Kaylum if you weren't happy why invest money and fund the yard?

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Hmmm - this could turn into an interesting debate. I have had some small experience of racing yards. My concern was not the actual treatment of the animals while they were proving to be useful or potentially useful - their needs seem to be adequately met. My concern has always been what happens to the ones that are deemed no good for the job? I believe that it really is only a tiny percentage that are lucky enough to fall into the hands of a knowledgeable and caring new owner who is willing to put in the effort to re-train them for another job, and not enough are pts, rather than shoved around from pillar to post so sellers can make a few hundred quid here and there. Where ambition and big bucks go hand in hand, I'm afraid I become rather sceptical.
And no, I'm no fan of the Grand National either.

It is the ultimate responsibility of the owner to ensure his horse is placed properly, the trainer may advise but if the owner insists on selling the horse at any time, there is nothing the trainer or anyone else can do.
There are not enough good homes for racehorses, yet you will see plenty of people protesting if they are shot, especially if the animals are sound.
It is not only racehorses that are shunted from pillar to post to make a few £££, it happens to all horses.

PS I won't be watching the GN as I hate to see horses falling. In my opinion there are too many horses in the race and they go too fast in to the first fence. The ground should be fairly dead, so that will slow them down a bit.

 

[Him_Indoors]

Any where that animals are kept can be bad. It's not just racing, riding schools, livery yards, private owners. Why did you buy a part share did you not go get everything checked out before hand? See the yard or didn't you understand about racing or horses. To fuel a business it needs money to carry on. Without that money there is no business. You fuelled the business.

Fair point Kaylum, I fully accept your point.


Unfortunately we trusted someone known to us, who it turns out, didn't have the same welfare instinct as ourselves. We did see the yard after commitment which at first seemed fine, however later down this partnership / syndicate road, we started to notice things which we weren't happy with and this is when we made moves to take control of our boy and get him out.


Racing is a very 'closed' world, they look after their own, whether the training yard, it's staff, assisting services or whatever, they will close rank and protect each other; the voices of two little old folk objecting to their internal practice wasn't going to change what they do, so we got out, stopped fuelling the fire as it were.


Have a great weekend Kaylum.

 

[julie111]

I agree there are good and bad but unfortunately it all comes down to money! I hate the Grand National but I'm probably in the minority here so I won't say anymore!

 

[Patterdale]

Racing yards are all about M O N E Y, they all are, they're businesses;
.

Well, yes. That's hardly an industry secret. The same could be said of every riding school, stud and livery yard.
A racing yard, like any other, has to pay its bills. You generally don't manage this with unhappy, unhealthy horses. It is not in a trainer's best interests to mistreat such valuable animals.

The financial value of a racehorse is one of the main things that generally ensures his wellbeing whilst in training.

Lets all keep our fingers crossed that no horses have to be destroyed today at the National, BUT if there is, give thought to this post and my reasons behind it, namely that my wife and I couldn't just sit back and watch our horse be ill treated, and as soon as we had 100% say in what happens in his life, we relieved him of his screaming nightmares.

If your horse is being mistreated, you remove him from the situation and report the perpetrators to the relevant authorities. Situations like this are not isolated to racing.

And horses don't have 'screaming nightmares.' You're anthropomorphising him for emotional manipulation.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, and pleased that you managed to improve things for your horse, but someone generally starts one of these racing-bashing threads each year and I think it's an insult to the thousands of people who work tirelessly and for little reward to keep these horses healthy and happy.

 

[Him_Indoors]

same thread different year- why do we rise to the bait!!
completely agree with Kaylum if you weren't happy why invest money and fund the yard?

Dizzy, excuse my ignorance in this matter, I've only just joined the H&H pages so wouldn't have seen previous years threads, but from what you say, I'm not alone in thinking the way I do: is that right?

Ive just replied to Kaylum, saying that we got out and stopped fuelling as soon as we could.

 

[Patterdale]

same thread different year- why do we rise to the bait!!

I don't know...!

 

[Him_Indoors]

Well, yes. That's hardly an industry secret. The same could be said of every riding school, stud and livery yard.
A racing yard, like any other, has to pay its bills. You generally don't manage this with unhappy, unhealthy horses. It is not in a trainer's best interests to mistreat such valuable animals.

The financial value of a racehorse is one of the main things that generally ensures his wellbeing whilst in training.



If your horse is being mistreated, you remove him from the situation and report the perpetrators to the relevant authorities. Situations like this are not isolated to racing.

And horses don't have 'screaming nightmares.' You're anthropomorphising him for emotional manipulation.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, and pleased that you managed to improve things for your horse, but someone generally starts one of these racing-bashing threads each year and I think it's an insult to the thousands of people who work tirelessly and for little reward to keep these horses healthy and happy.

"anthropomorphising" yes I am, probably quite deliberately.

 

[Him_Indoors]

I don't know...!

Please refer to my post just above yours. Thanks.

 

[littleshetland]

It is the ultimate responsibility of the owner to ensure his horse is placed properly, the trainer may advise but if the owner insists on selling the horse at any time, there is nothing the trainer or anyone else can do.
There are not enough good homes for racehorses, yet you will see plenty of people protesting if they are shot, especially if the animals are sound.
It is not only racehorses that are shunted from pillar to post to make a few £££, it happens to all horses.

PS I won't be watching the GN as I hate to see horses falling. In my opinion there are too many horses in the race and they go too fast in to the first fence. The ground should be fairly dead, so that will slow them down a bit.

There are an awful lot of racehorse owners, who , believe me, know nothing about horses. They pay the bills, enjoy a nice day out at the races and , above all else, enjoy gambling. They tend to be moneyed individuals, business men and syndicates. They place their trust absolutely in the trainer because they have no knowledge of horses.
And yes - I agree - terrible times potentially await ALL equines, but that is a different debate. This thread is about racing and racehorse welfare.

 

[Him_Indoors]

There are an awful lot of racehorse owners, who , believe me, know nothing about horses. They pay the bills, enjoy a nice day out at the races and , above all else, enjoy gambling. They tend to be moneyed individuals, business men and syndicates. They place their trust absolutely in the trainer because they have no knowledge of horses.
And yes - I agree - terrible times potentially await ALL equines, but that is a different debate. This thread is about racing and racehorse welfare.

I think you have probably hit the nail firmly on the head there, thank you, and yes we were all about a 'good experience' as well until our eyes were very firmly opened to what was, and probably still is going on in this particular yard. This experience has turned our lives totally, we now have a lad who we get complemented about on almost a daily basis. There was such a wonderful personality inside that would have been lost and probably the horse would have ended up in some 'value' range box on a supermarket shelf somewhere in the world.

 

[nervous nelly]

You still have not told us what happened to your horse that is so terrible?!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Fair point Kaylum, I fully accept your point.


Unfortunately we trusted someone known to us, who it turns out, didn't have the same welfare instinct as ourselves. We did see the yard after commitment which at first seemed fine, however later down this partnership / syndicate road, we started to notice things which we weren't happy with and this is when we made moves to take control of our boy and get him out.


Racing is a very 'closed' world, they look after their own, whether the training yard, it's staff, assisting services or whatever, they will close rank and protect each other; the voices of two little old folk objecting to their internal practice wasn't going to change what they do, so we got out, stopped fuelling the fire as it were.


Have a great weekend Kaylum.

It is closed world, and there is a lot of camaraderie, which makes it a great industry to work in.
Most of the staff are animal lovers. There may be exceptions but it is easy to identify such people and it is up to the trainer to sack any bad staff. Anyone who works in racing and takes horses to the races has a record of employment retained by the BHA, so if they apply for a job with another trainer, it is easy to trace their employment history.
Racehorse are are not routinely whipped, starved or abused, and not to belittle what you have done, removing one horse from a bad place without doing anything for the others..... well that's not a particularly good strategy.

 

[Him_Indoors]

You still have not told us what happened to your horse that is so terrible?!

Not looking for a way out of answering your question, but I'd rather not. Yep, I accept that this is looking like a 'cop out', but it wouldn't make nice reading, so I ask that you accept that our integrity and judgement of the situation was correct.

This comment alone will no don't bring new argument back from some on here.

 

[Patterdale]

This comment alone will no don't bring new argument back from some on here.

As I'm now fairly sure that this is all you're after, I'll be bowing out.