Grand National meeting.

I've been approached a few times when abroad to act as an agent buying horses for racing, the thought of where they may ultimately end up was enough to put me off for life

It's a grubby world, all that glitters on race day is not gold

Racing has too many down sides

I never found it very knowledgable horse management wise


Backing horses after 3 days training for the first time I thought was shocking
 
IrishMilo said:
I don't like seeing horses pushed beyond what they're comfortably capable of full stop regardless which discipline it is. 'Neglect happens in livery yards/horses die in eventing/dressage horses are treated worse constantly pulled BTV' - that's awful too. It's not really a tit for tat situation.

Those saying if racing is banned the horses would be dead or passed around - that happens already. The only difference if it was banned would be after this generation it wouldn't keep happening in a cycle, and an already overpopulated horse market would die down.

The market is flooded with failed racers more than any other type. Probably 50% of those are irrevocably f*cked, 30% end up in homes with numpties who saw a cheap price tag and pass the horse pillar to post and the other 20% are the very lucky few.

Working in a racing yard was the most depressing thing on horse management I ever saw and this was one where we had horses come in from the best trainers in Newmarket. We were frequently told to rug horses up enough to sweat, pump them with as much cereal as they could eat, some horses were with us for 4+ months on the instruction of no turnout at all, the horses would be rearing in their stables going clinically insane. It makes me feel like crying just thinking about it. I truly don't know how anyone can know that and support the industry. This wasn't the exception it was the rule.
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I'm confused as to what kind of yard you were on for horses to be coming in from various Trainers, was it some kind of rehab yard?
Not being facetious btw, I'm genuinely interested.
 
humblepie said:
Not a BHA licensed and inspected yard in that case so no more regulated than most equestrian yards. I would hope most trainers checked third party yards they are using and hopefully at some point such yards will become regulated too
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You think regulation guarantees good treatment in racing yards? Dream on.

The local yard that I visited in my search for my last horse was a licenced trainer. He had 11 low quality horses being run in low quality races at very low body weights, presumably in order to try to get a better power to weight ratio.

I have never felt such concentrated misery radiating from any group of horses in my life as those 11 depressed, miserable creatures. They didn't even look up as I passed their stables, they were completely shut down and uninterested in life. I still have bad dreams about it 2 years later. My husband, who isn't horse affiliative except for supporting my hobby, was angry for quite some time after we left, he was so upset by it.
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I have a small share in a NH 4 year old (syndicate of 20) , he has run a few times this season and been placed in a couple of Novice Hurdles, we've had great fun. He has been kept and produced beautifully, bred by the Trainer I have followed him on their page since he was born so jumped at the chance of a 5% share when he was syndicated. I can honestly say that all of the horses on that yard have a great and varied lifestyle. They hack, jump, school and go on away days to the beach as well as working on the gallops and they do get turn out. We can go and visit whenever we choose
Our boy needs to fill his frame and has just been given a break to let him fill out a bit, he will soon go out for his Summer Holidays. I would send any of our own horses to that yard in a heartbeat. It is nothing like the image of racing yards portrayed on this thread.
 
It's not the ones with great trainers that are the problem.

I watched a program once where there was an interview with a top trainer. He was stood in the middle of his immaculate yard. The interviewer asked why the horses had V bars on the doors and was told it was to stop them weaving. That was bad enough to anyone who knows horses but he was oblivious to the fact that almost every horse in that yard was nodding its head up and down, up and down.....

My understanding is that many (most? ) racehorses will be being fed something that prevents ulcers. Gastrogard, sucralfate, charcoal etc. And that a very, very high proportion in even the best yards would not scope clear of ulcers.

Doesn't that tell us something?
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ycbm said:
You think regulation guarantees good treatment in racing yards? Dream on.

The local yard that I visited in my search for my last horse was a licenced trainer. He had 11 low quality horses being run in low quality races at very low body weights, presumably in order to try to get a better power to weight ratio.

I have never felt such concentrated misery radiating from any group of horses in my life as those 11 depressed, miserable creatures. They didn't even look up as I passed their stables, they were completely shut down and uninterested in life. I still have bad dreams about it 2 years later. My husband, who isn't horse affiliative except for supporting my hobby, was angry for quite some time after we left, he was so upset by it.
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What would be the point ? An unhappy horse is a slow one, I’m amazed that trainer even has a business especially with only 11 horses.
 
humblepie said:
Not a BHA licensed and inspected yard in that case so no more regulated than most equestrian yards. I would hope most trainers checked third party yards they are using and hopefully at some point such yards will become regulated too
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You realise that we operated on the trainer's instructions? The horses would literally come to us with an A4 sheet of paper with feed instructions, turnout rules, rugging rules, etc. We weren't at liberty to break those rules nor inclined to as the reputation of the yard relied on repeat business through big names. This wasn't some mom and pop yard, it was a multimillion pound facility. All of the yards whose horses were sent to us would have been regulated so why would you assume they're treated any different at home?
 
IrishMilo said:
You realise that we operated on the trainer's instructions? The horses would literally come to us with an A4 sheet of paper with feed instructions, turnout rules, rugging rules, etc. We weren't at liberty to break those rules nor inclined to as the reputation of the yard relied on repeat business through big names. This wasn't some mom and pop yard, it was a multimillion pound facility. All of the yards whose horses were sent to us would have been regulated so why would you assume they're treated any different at home?
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Let's hope things have moved on. Trainers do have to be careful about what external yards they use as a horse could be given something that subsequently gives a positive test as they only have to be back in the licensed yard for 14 days before a run.
 
bonny said:
An unhappy horse is a slow one, I’m amazed that trainer even has a business especially with only 11 horses.
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There are lots of small trainers around Bonny. That particular yard was owned by a rich man who liked having a racing yard.

I wish it was a simple as "unhappy horses don't win races", that would solve a lot of problems.
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ycbm said:
There are lots of small trainers around Bonny. That particular yard was owned by a rich man who liked having a racing yard.

I wish it was a simple as "unhappy horses don't win races", that would solve a lot of problems.
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What is the trainers name?
 
ycbm said:
You think regulation guarantees good treatment in racing yards? Dream on.

The local yard that I visited in my search for my last horse was a licenced trainer. He had 11 low quality horses being run in low quality races at very low body weights, presumably in order to try to get a better power to weight ratio.

I have never felt such concentrated misery radiating from any group of horses in my life as those 11 depressed, miserable creatures. They didn't even look up as I passed their stables, they were completely shut down and uninterested in life. I still have bad dreams about it 2 years later. My husband, who isn't horse affiliative except for supporting my hobby, was angry for quite some time after we left, he was so upset by it.
.
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Did you report him to the BHA/whoever was the licencing authority at the time?
 
I used to work in a big yard NH in France, over 100 horses, the 3 years old came in, got broken and then only the promising one were kept
all the others with sore shins, or being too immature were send back to the breeder for another career.

The yard was too successful to bother with non hoper or small breeder.

However, i worked in small racing yard in Switzerland and that's different, the horses keep running till they are 12 or more, even the none hoper,
the small trainers can't afford to lose them and the owners are usually clueless....

So even the moderat horse having low placing and with no hope of ever winning a race will keep going on and on....

It's simple, if the horses go, the trainers can close his stables.

So people shut their eyes, the vets try to patch the horses up to keep them going and once they finally retire, they usually not even good for hacking....
 
ycbm said:
I said they were being run at minimum possible weight. It's a common practice with lower end race horses to attempt to get the power to weight ratio as high as possible, in the absence of genuine talent.
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No, it’s not, if you are going to come out with statements like that then prove it ?
 
Burnttoast said:
I'm not sure it's possible to work in the equine sport/racing industry and love horses without being guilty of either staggering naivety or off the scale cognitive dissonance. Don't suppose that will be a popular comment but I can't see how things can be other than that, given the fact that vast numbers of horses must be bred to keep things going and most of them will not come close to success in competitive terms. 'Wastage' - what a word to describe a huge cohort of sentient beings.
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I have often thought this. I used to be a huge NH fan. I still am but I can’t accept the fatalities anymore. I think the jockey club, itv racing etc. who keep banging on with the narrative that’ the public don’t understand, we do love our horses’ is completely misguided. The average member of the public who loves their pets would not agree that running in the GN equates to love. Racing is losing its social licence, the safety measures have not worked, it’s time for a rethink.
 
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myheartinahoofbeat said:
I have often thought this. I used to be a huge NH fan. I still am but I can’t accept the fatalities anymore. I think the jockey club, itv racing etc. who keep banging on with the narrative that’ the public don’t understand, we do love our horses’ is completely misguided. The average member of the public who loves their pets would not agree. Racing is losing its social licence, the safety measures have not worked, it’s time for a rethink.
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Honestly I think (and this is not exactly a criticism of people who say this) that people often say they love horses when that's not strictly what they mean. They may not even have thought this all the way through themselves. But when people say they wouldn't keep horses if they couldn't ride or compete (or otherwise get something out of them, as owners of competition horses/racehorses), or would put a slightly broken horse down because they want to ride and can't afford two - to me, that is loving riding (or whatever), and they are two different things.
 
This thread has and continues to give me much to think about . Probably the most intelligent series of comments for a long while. It has caused me to re-examine so many things . I grew up in a racing yard and was truly lucky that it was a really good one. I learned much ,but thought that it was universal. All yards were the same .Actually in those days most of them were ,I guess. Since then I have seen many improvements and also I regret ,some very negative things. Happy horses win races! . It is even possible to improve a horses performance by how it is lead around the pre race parade .Believe it or not. My 200 to 1 (on the tote) fat elephant (thanks sarah K ) blew everyone away down the straight at Goodwood . The secret ....well its a secret .
 
Bob notacob said:
This thread has and continues to give me much to think about . Probably the most intelligent series of comments for a long while. It has caused me to re-examine so many things . I grew up in a racing yard and was truly lucky that it was a really good one. I learned much ,but thought that it was universal. All yards were the same .Actually in those days most of them were ,I guess. Since then I have seen many improvements and also I regret ,some very negative things. Happy horses win races! . It is even possible to improve a horses performance by how it is lead around the pre race parade .Believe it or not. My 200 to 1 (on the tote) fat elephant (thanks sarah K ) blew everyone away down the straight at Goodwood . The secret ....well its a secret .
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I think that you are completely right !

I lead around the pre race parade a 5 years old flat Falcao, he is hot headed and normally, he needs two people holding on to him...
The jockey has troubles getting on and he lashes out if other horses come too close..

I have been leading him a few times now, i try to walk him away from others and i sing !

It relax him, he loves the Marseillaise, the French National Anthem ! For some reasons, it seems to work.

I just keep singing to him and it does the trick.

He is still a moderate horse but at least, he isn't dangerous anymore.

I don't like racing anymore but i make the effort to lead him as he deserve it and he is happier in himself.
 
Some pictures for Bonny, since she seems to suggest that I am fabricating the fact that it's common for untalented race horses to be run at the highest power to weight ratio that can be achieved. I recollect that this horse ran 3 weeks before the auction he is pictured at. He is likely fatter looking in these. In the last photo you can also clearly see the permanent damage cause by being ridden in a half tree saddle and in the middle one the extraordinary hollowness at his batwing hip bones. There are plenty like him at every mixed (meaning non elite, ordinary racers of all ages, many only reaching minimum bid or slightly over) sale at Doncaster and Ascot.

He was the sweetest little chap, a baby could have handled and ridden him. It was buying these creatures one after another and seeing the changes when they were in a private home that turned me against racing.


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IrishMilo said:
I don't like seeing horses pushed beyond what they're comfortably capable of full stop regardless which discipline it is. 'Neglect happens in livery yards/horses die in eventing/dressage horses are treated worse constantly pulled BTV' - that's awful too. It's not really a tit for tat situation.

Those saying if racing is banned the horses would be dead or passed around - that happens already. The only difference if it was banned would be after this generation it wouldn't keep happening in a cycle, and an already overpopulated horse market would die down.

The market is flooded with failed racers more than any other type. Probably 50% of those are irrevocably f*cked, 30% end up in homes with numpties who saw a cheap price tag and pass the horse pillar to post and the other 20% are the very lucky few.

Working in a racing yard was the most depressing thing on horse management I ever saw and this was one where we had horses come in from the best trainers in Newmarket. We were frequently told to rug horses up enough to sweat, pump them with as much cereal as they could eat, some horses were with us for 4+ months on the instruction of no turnout at all, the horses would be rearing in their stables going clinically insane. It makes me feel like crying just thinking about it. I truly don't know how anyone can know that and support the industry. This wasn't the exception it was the rule.
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IrishMilo said:
I've tried many times to work with horses professionally and every time I've had to stop as I hated what I saw and was told to do. I'm not even talking about the overt abuse and cruelty the general public probably imagine, I'm talking horses who live the most boring, unenriched lives possible where their very basic needs aren't met. I could deal with the likes of the GN if I knew the horses lived a fundamentally good life. But for anyone who thinks the trainers care about the horses, I really wish I could believe that but it absolutely does not add up with what I saw.

By the way, a lot of the Newmarket bred horses are shipped to Quatar for desert racing and endurance. There's a good chance that the ones who aren't good are literally untacked and left to die in the desert. And no, I'm not joking. Sorry to upset anyone but that is the dark reality of the industry.
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Absolutely re: endurance. 😭 I walked away from that when I realised how it was and when a sweet mare I wanted to buy was sold off in a job lot to the UAE. Initially she was in training but recorded deceased 6 months later. I had nightmares imagining her life and death there.
 
Fully accepting that all racehorse owners are cruel people.
I own a few, some micro shares and some slightly bigger bits. All are gone into knowing where they will be trained, their lifestyle and the plan for when they cannot race any more.
My Grandpa bred 5 foals from a little low class hurdling mare he owned and one won at Royal Ascot. He was offered a fortune to sell him to Hong Kong. He refused. The horse was subsequently retired to the trainers and lived there until his 20’s, with Grandpa paying for it.
This isn’t whataboutery, it’s showing there is good out there. Probably way more then bad, but bad is the go to default on here a lot if the time, not just in racing.
Do I love horses? I do. I admire the hell out of them as well. Their athleticism, their sheer beauty.
 
Burnttoast said:
What do you mean by 'bad'? I grew up in Newmarket so I have a good idea of what many typical flat yards look like (stables, walkers, possibly a few tiny tiny little paddocks). Lambourn is much the same. Site acreages in low single figures for tens of horses, most of which is walkways, yards, parking. NH yards sometimes have more land, but racing yards that turn horses out are not the norm. They physically can't be.
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Well I've lived on the edge of the Cotswolds all my life where NH rules and yards are big and surrounded by open country. Yards with no turnout have gone, trainers are moving with the times and the horses spend the summer turned away.
 
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