Grand National meeting.

meandmyself said:
I don't see how anyone can defend a race that repeatedly kills horses. It happens every year and it's disgusting, cruel and it's time the race was either stopped or changed drastically.

en.m.wikipedia.org

List of equine fatalities in the Grand National - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

How can anyone look at that list and think it's okay to keep doing this? It's barbaric.
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The race has been changed drastically, it's now little more than a glorified long distance handicap race. It's no longer a serious jumping test, in my opinion, others may disagree.
The fences have been reduced dramatically and the number of runners is fewer. I normally hate to watch the run to the first but for the first time ever this year I felt the horses had plenty of room going to the first fence.

Broadway Boy's terrible fall could have happened in any race, I don't think it was down to the nature of the fence he was jumping. The main issue on Saturday was the heat in my opinion.

Horses who have trained and run in Winter conditions haven't had time to acclimatise to heat which just exacerbated the issue.

As for Celebre d'Allen I'm incredibly sad that he was lost. He's a horse I have followed for a long time and he deserved a good retirement.
However, unpopular opinion, I can't support the extreme jockey bashing.
He made a stupid decision to keep riding when he should have stopped. A decision he made in the heat of the moment when his blood was up. He will now have to live with the knowledge that that decision cost a brave, talented, much loved horse his life. Surely he would never for one moment have thought that keeping going would have resulted in the death of the horse.
I can't imagine how he is feeling right now. I've seen that he has deleted his Social Media, I fear to think how bad some of the comments on there would have been! If he's a normal human being he will be beating himself up sufficiently that he won't need that kind of input from anyone else. A stupid, stupid mistake that I'm quite sure he deeply regrets.
 
Unlike in nearly all other races who only have prize money to 4th place the GN is, I believe, unique in having prize money to 10th place finisher. Was aiming to get into the top 10 in the back of Nolan's mind when he chose to continue beyond the 2nd last fence? Is the rule requiring jockeys to achieve the best possible placing at play in his decision to continue, with prizes to 10th place?

Perhaps now that the GN has been changed so much away from how it used to be (and the inherently more dangerous challenge it posed then) it might be time to only reward to say 6th place.

On ITV news last night they announced that there will also be an official inquiry into the death. I believe it is normal now for an inquiry to be held after the GN every year to 'learn lessons' from the latest event.

Not specifically jockey bashing but there is a legitimate question around the 10 day penalty for riding an exhausted horse compared with 7 days for 'not riding out', 8 days for 1 over the limit of strikes and 39 days under the 'totting up' rule for whip abuse. In that context 10 days, especially now that the horse has died, seems far too lenient.

I don't doubt that Nolan is remorseful about what has happened. Similarly people who are on their phones when driving and kill someone in the resulting accident are also probably remorseful about what they've done when the end up in prison.
 
I’m n
reynold said:
To answer ester above - I don't think earpieces would work for many reasons such as volume of noise from the crowds and following vehicles, plus such factors as wind noise and noise from camera drones.

There is also the issue of cleanliness with 'official' earpieces having to be cleaned before being used by another jockey. There is also the possibility of them actually falling out during a jumps race (or later a jockey having claimed it has fallen out). Let alone malicious hacking of earpiece communication.

If, as I suggested above, the penalties for continuing to push a tired horse were increased substantially then jockeys should start to consider pulling up and living (!) to fight another day if there is any doubt of the horse's ability to continue.

As it stands at the moment the current penalty structure seems to give almost as much of a penalty to failing to ride out/non-trier (which only really effects those who have bet on that horse) as it does to riding a horse to exhaustion (and in this case causing it to die).
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Your arguments against earpieces aren’t really persuading me although I can see that there might be problems with them now and then.
I do very much like the proposal of altering the penalty structure.
Both could be done.
The race calendar could be revised to avoid running NH races in warmer weather. Or if the racing authorities can’t [won’t] do that the industry needs to accept that it might have to cancel a meeting now and then because of climate change.
I don’t want horse sports to end but The Mail headline was fully justified in my view.
 
minesadouble said:
The race has been changed drastically, it's now little more than a glorified long distance handicap race. It's no longer a serious jumping test, in my opinion, others may disagree.
The fences have been reduced dramatically and the number of runners is fewer. I normally hate to watch the run to the first but for the first time ever this year I felt the horses had plenty of room going to the first fence.

Broadway Boy's terrible fall could have happened in any race, I don't think it was down to the nature of the fence he was jumping. The main issue on Saturday was the heat in my opinion.

Horses who have trained and run in Winter conditions haven't had time to acclimatise to heat which just exacerbated the issue.

As for Celebre d'Allen I'm incredibly sad that he was lost. He's a horse I have followed for a long time and he deserved a good retirement.
However, unpopular opinion, I can't support the extreme jockey bashing.
He made a stupid decision to keep riding when he should have stopped. A decision he made in the heat of the moment when his blood was up. He will now have to live with the knowledge that that decision cost a brave, talented, much loved horse his life. Surely he would never for one moment have thought that keeping going would have resulted in the death of the horse.
I can't imagine how he is feeling right now. I've seen that he has deleted his Social Media, I fear to think how bad some of the comments on there would have been! If he's a normal human being he will be beating himself up sufficiently that he won't need that kind of input from anyone elsestupid, stupid mistake that I'm quite sure he deeply regrets.
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Only 16 out of 34 finished, how that is an improvement I don't know about previous years figures


Whenever I have watched it it looked like carnage, and I watched it for a many a long year

I appreciate what you are saying about efforts bring made

But it's getting overwhelming, the use of spurs, double bridles, whips, rotten training in so many different sports is bringing horse riding into the gutter

When I get my horses out to work my first thought is how to end the session on a high for the horse and myself, I don't get lost in frustration or forget to notice niggles, or whip it to keep going till it drops


The whole management training riding Competing thing, needs serious overhaul, it's getting worse not better, sorry not aimed at you of course

It's been known how ride and train for thousands of years

The book, the black horse inside coolmore, gives an inside look at attitudes within racing, judge for yourself
 
I find it..I’m not sure of the word.. that there is less outrage from the public over the death of a horse from exhaustion in racing than there was for a 4 year old video of a dressage rider using a whip. I wonder why that is?
 
meandmyself said:
I don't see how anyone can defend a race that repeatedly kills horses. It happens every year and it's disgusting, cruel and it's time the race was either stopped or changed drastically.

en.m.wikipedia.org

List of equine fatalities in the Grand National - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

How can anyone look at that list and think it's okay to keep doing this? It's barbaric.
Click to expand...


In the context. Should an animal made like a horse be asked to run at top speed at fences then pushed on to give more when nearing the end of the race
 
minesadouble said:
The race has been changed drastically, it's now little more than a glorified long distance handicap race. It's no longer a serious jumping test, in my opinion, others may disagree.
The fences have been reduced dramatically and the number of runners is fewer. I normally hate to watch the run to the first but for the first time ever this year I felt the horses had plenty of room going to the first fence.

Broadway Boy's terrible fall could have happened in any race, I don't think it was down to the nature of the fence he was jumping. The main issue on Saturday was the heat in my opinion.

Horses who have trained and run in Winter conditions haven't had time to acclimatise to heat which just exacerbated the issue.

As for Celebre d'Allen I'm incredibly sad that he was lost. He's a horse I have followed for a long time and he deserved a good retirement.
However, unpopular opinion, I can't support the extreme jockey bashing.
He made a stupid decision to keep riding when he should have stopped. A decision he made in the heat of the moment when his blood was up. He will now have to live with the knowledge that that decision cost a brave, talented, much loved horse his life. Surely he would never for one moment have thought that keeping going would have resulted in the death of the horse.
I can't imagine how he is feeling right now. I've seen that he has deleted his Social Media, I fear to think how bad some of the comments on there would have been! If he's a normal human being he will be beating himself up sufficiently that he won't need that kind of input from anyone else. A stupid, stupid mistake that I'm quite sure he deeply regrets.
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How can you defend anything about it? It clearly hasn't become any safer!

Horses are *still* dying- and yes I do think "raced to death" is accurate here.

If any other sport has a list of fatalities it would be getting banned. Stupid barbaric race that needs to stop now. The horses certainly aren't getting any enjoyment from it.
 
ester said:
I've always thought it looks very much like the wrong message to keep a win and receive a ban at the same time. It very makes it look like it's ok so long as the win is big enough to be worth it.
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I’ve been banging on about this for years. Written to the BHA but they’re useless.

Whips. Need. Banning. You shouldn’t need to whip a horse to win. They should carry whips in case they need to correct a sudden deviation of course as it were (for safety). But no. They need banning.

John Francome the best jockey I ever saw says they should be banned. He’s right.
 
bonny said:
Why does anyone on a horse need a whip ?
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Nowadays to emphasise how much room should be given when on the roads, and as an extra aid if horse spooks into the path of vehicles, a slap down the neck can help to stop the sideways movement. Also to whack an attacking dog as these days this is much more common
 
bonny said:
Why does anyone on a horse need a whip ?
Click to expand...

All sorts of reasons. I won’t get on a horse without one; if there’s a sudden swerve or nap towards traffic / a drop / a fence line with my leg in the way, a whip can be a lifesaver. And you don’t know if today is the day that might happen. If it’s a toss up between hitting a horse hard and going under a car, the horse is getting a slap.

Also useful for aids when you can’t reach with a hand or leg - especially when asking for extreme collection or a sideways movement.

Also useful for opening gates, moving brambles, waving at dogs, blocking cars from coming too close and in awful situations, hitting a human - my mum knows a woman who was pulled off of her 13.2 and raped.

So, whip in hand every time I’m on, same as the hat and the boots. Might never need it. Might save a life.
 
Whips should only be permitted on the racecourse to keep a horse straight, not to make it go faster.

I was shocked to hear that jockeys are permitted to use the whip up to 7 times after the final fence. Then the horse gets to keep the race even when the jockey has misused the whip.
 
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Here in Switzerland, you can insure a horse for loss of use.
For example, if the horse is insured to race and he can't due to injuries, you get some money.

Also, if the horse break a leg racing, you get some money.

It's not cheap but many owner insure their horses and when they break down, sell them cheap, give them away or they go to the knacker man.
then they use the money to buy another one and carry on......

My ex racer did both tendons aged 7 and was gifted to me, the owner didn't give a shit about him.....

They gave the trainer 1 week to find a nice home or else he was going to be put down.

I rode him everyday and liked him, so i took him on and i don't regret it.
 
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Tiddlypom said:
Whips should only be permitted on the racecourse keep a horse straight, not to make it go faster.

I was shocked to hear that jockeys are permitted to use the whip up to 7 times after the final fence. Then the horse gets to keep the race even when the jockey has misused the whip.
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It’s 7 times in the whole race not 7 after the final fence. Whilst as written it would not preclude them using it 7 times after the final fence.
Possibly amend it so it can only be used once in between fences up to a maximum of 7 times.
 
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