Grass - has the laminitus risk reduced now?

Gingerwitch

Gingerwitch

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Just wondering how good the grass still is - mine are on their winter grazing - about a foot high, we are getting pretty warm days still, lots of rain - out at night in all day.... both could do with dropping a few kg - and hoping to do that slowly over the winter but i still panic every day atm and will be much happier when the grass losses its goodness
 
My old boy got lammi in October, and the vet said then that often in the autumn you get lots of rain which brings the grass up, and in his experience autumn time can be as bad as the spring for new cases of laminitis, simply because everyone assumes its a "safe" season. It isn't, unfortunately.

The other thing you have to be careful of, when we get early morning frost, is to avoid turning out onto frosty grass on bright sunny mornings; something to do with the way fructans rise in the grass when its a combination of frost and sunlight. Sorry can't explain the science, but no doubt someone else on here will be able to???!! Anyway, its a combination that's best avoided if you want to avoid lammi, or to manage one that already is prone.
 
two things increase the risk at this time of year

Autumn flush - warm and wet makes the grass grow and it can be very sugary esp on sunny days for lots of useful info go to www.safergrass.org

second thing is Seasonal Rise - rise in ACTH and cortisol

for more info go to http://ecirhorse.com/index.php/seasonalrise

An extract below

Seasonal Rise is a term now used to describe the fall seasonal ACTH and resulting insulin and glucose fluctuations in horses with Cushing's Disease/PPID.

Owners and veterinarians have long recognized that horses with PPID do better symptomatically in the spring and summer than in the fall and early winter. Before a Seasonal Rise was identified, fall laminitis was often blamed on high sugar and/or fructan in grasses. Literally countless horses over the years have presented on the EC and IR Group with these same seasonal patterns of laminitis within the period of August to November - the months of fall. However, the EC and IR Group documented horses getting laminitic without access to grass and without any change in the low sugar and starch IR diet. Dee, an EC and IR Group member, along with her veterinarian who suspected hormonal influences for the fall laminitis Dee's horse Cabby experienced, documented a rise in ACTH and a worsening G:I Ratio in Cabby back in 2004.

This study by Mark T. Donaldson et al, published in 2005 confirmed the Seasonal Rise.
 
my boy got it again last october so the grass is still a risk now - it does depend on the weather but when you have spells of rain followed by sunshine this can encourage grass growth so any concerns about Laminitis, you should either restrict turnout or muzzle which is what I do. The risk of Lami is still high in my opinion in Autum - when my horse got it again last October my Vet was saying that they had a large number of cases of Lami already by then.

Also after my horse's second bout of lami, my vet told me that he cannot go out at all when there is frost....as when the sun shines through and melts the frost, the levels of fructans are much higher and so my horse would be of considerable risk of getting it again.....so he does not go out at all as getting it a 3rd time is just not an option....

So I am hoping that this winter is nowhere near as cold as last winter :(
 
I hate to sound like a lammi hypochondriac but most of the year round its still risky.
I certainly would not consider the grass 'safer' as yet, it is still fairly mild for grass to grow, I would wait until November to put onto winter grazing if needs must with rotation of pasture.
I generally keep my laminitic on bald grazing all year round, it grows alot of the year, she gets hay to fill in the gaps. It just depends on how susceptible your horse/pony is and their foot structure.
I try not to take any risks but my girl is very high risk, vets have advised to always keep her on bald grazing with hay, and it seems to work
 
M-I-M is dead right. Lami will get you just as you lower your guard.
Another thing to bear in mind is frost. Until the grass is TOTALLY thawed you should never turn a laminitic pony out. The sugar levels in the grass will be extremely high and should be avoided at all costs!
 
Well one of mine is crippled with it (amongst other things) so I would definitely say that it isn't safe yet

Edited because my grammar went out the window...
 
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September and early october months are as bad as spring. The dairy cows milk produce has gone up to the same amount as in spring. That is as good a measure of grass that you can get. Be carefull until november.
 
My friends 16.2hh thoroughbred who is physically a good weight, has just got laminitis and is having to be cordened off the grass. Im hoping mine are ok this year but definately next year i will have to be careful throughout the year until the temperature is below 6 c towards the winter.
 
October is one of the higher risk months for the sugars in the grass.

Though the risk depends also on the equines and their condition, whether they are prone to it etc.

TBH I treat every month as high risk, better than risking it. Frosty mornings are very bad too, you can never get away from it!
 
My lami prone NF has moved to a new yard recently and ALL their grazing is looking exceptionally lush and long at the moment.

He has his grazing muzzle on at all times when turned out at the minute. The last attack he had was in the September (4 years ago) The risk is most definately still there, lami isint just a 'spring grass' issue. Best to keep vigilant all year round. I feel horrid for putting him in his grazing muzzle but I'm pretty sure an attack of lami would upset him a whole lot more.
 
No! As long as its a above 10 degrees the grass still grows. Vet said the grass goodness is still there all year Round now as lami cases are occurring even in the winter. Grass won't start to lose its goodness until at least October.
 
Yep our grass has just started growing this week. I was thinking I could be doing away with the greenguard but not now! Such a shame as they won't be able to live out for much longer.
 
I'm desperate to reduce the hay and use up the masses of grass we've got, but daren't risk it yet. The grass is the greenest I've seen it for ages. :(
 
I agree with what all the other posters have said but only to add that we have just done our 2nd cut of haylege this year.. At the end of september its almost unheard of to be cutting this late in the year but the conditions have been ripe for grass growing.

:)
 
I agree with what all the other posters have said but only to add that we have just done our 2nd cut of haylege this year.. At the end of september its almost unheard of to be cutting this late in the year but the conditions have been ripe for grass growing.

:)
 
Any tips on how to keep a muzzle on?!! My mare had been pretty good at wearing it all day but has now worked out that she can pull it off in seconds by hooking it over the water tap!! (it's a velcro-ed one) :(
I tried wrapping lots of very sticky tape over the velco strap but it actually took me longer to do that than it took for her to get it off...!!! :)
 
No it hasn't reduced, mine got it at the end of Aug a few years back, our grass is like permanent spring grass because its not been that hot over the summer its not got scorched just keeps growing, he is muzzled all the time he is turned out. Its this time of year you need to watch because you might think its not as good but be very careful
 
Have been trying to re-introduce grass (and so save my winter hay supply!) and although I'm getting away with overnight on grass, there's no way I can leave him longer.

My Sweet Itch mare has also started rubbing since I re-introduced her to grass two weeks ago (she hasn't been wearing a muzzle and her SI is definitely diet related), so it's definitely still too rich. She'll be staying in the bare paddock tonight.
 
Hutchlou said:
Any tips on how to keep a muzzle on?!! My mare had been pretty good at wearing it all day but has now worked out that she can pull it off in seconds by hooking it over the water tap!! (it's a velcro-ed one) :(
I tried wrapping lots of very sticky tape over the velco strap but it actually took me longer to do that than it took for her to get it off...!!! :)
Click to expand...

If its the shires bucket type one, I'll try an post pics of how I've customised my boys muzzle.

I bought a greenguard headcollar and took the centre strap off and the extra throat lash and customised the shires one
 
Thanks! :) It is the Shires one. I had thought about leaving her head collar over the top of it or using my chifney head straps to secure it on but wasn't sure if this was safe or not?
 
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