GSDM - Update on Vinny

R

Ranyhyn

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2008
Messages
21,273
Location
Funny farm
Visit site
Hello!

Sadly the spam folder in the chaps email had pounced on my email. Vinny was rehomed to another home but returned, here is the email - I'm sure Pete won't mind me posting it for your help.

"Hi jen. I thought you had decided not to go ahead with things as i d not had any reply from you but have just found your email in my spam box. Anyway there have been some developments since we last spoke. As i thought you were not interested i approached the next person however yesterday after our meet and after them agreeing to have him i had to fetch him back as he went for the new owner when he tried to put his lead on to take a walk. He has never done this before and so i can only assume it was due to the upset of being somewhere new etc. The problem i now face is that i dont know if he would do it again to any new owner. I feel unsure as to how he would be and feel he may have fear aggression with any new owner initially. I m a little uncertain as to how to deal with things right now as if i cant find a good home very soon he will have to go into kennels and if he snaps there thats it. Apparently it wasn t bad but they just didn t feel they could
cope if he didn t settle etc. I assume due to this you wont wish to continue with things however if you want you can call or text me on XXXXXXX"

Thoughts please and nothing bad as I feel Pete really is trying his best for Vin.

Kitty
 
I may get shot down for this bu whatever.

His owner just had a new baby right?

I feel that with the stress of a new baby coming in and an upset to his routine that that would bring and the possibility of him getting less exercise because of it and then being shipped off to a new house he probably had a ton of built up nervous energy that he wasn't given an outlet for.

If you still feel like you want him i think with a good walk before you took him home and some gentle TLC he will be the friendly dog his owner knows.
 
Doesn't sound as if they gave him much of a chance. It has to be unsettling for him. Dexter is a nervous dog although to look at him you would have to wonder why!! As long as you are aware of it there is no problem. We just give him time to come round to new people at his own pace.
I would give him a go, all dogs deserve a second chance.
 
Hello - I didn't see the original thread, so am guessing this is dog you want to re-home. I'm not an expert, but our dog was returned to the rescue for biting. We had him a while later and were told that so were careful. He has never bitten anyone since we have had him, and is a wonderful, but very cheeky dog. We have always given him lots of exercise, I can imagine he would be naughty without. He's poorly now (see other thread), and hasn't shown any agression whilst being treated. He is gettting bouncy and cheeky again now.

In a nutshell, I think I am saying not to give up. I hope I'm not too heavily crtiticised for that as I know how dangerous dogs can be.
 
I have experience of a fear aggressive dog. My old and much missed Baba was very fear aggressive. Due to my family under socialising him really.

Baba would bite without warning when put in a pressure situation, so for instance when people got in his face or when cornered.

To me he was the most angelic dog alive, but to strangers he was dangerous.

I am not concerned about taking Vinny on overly, because of this - BUT he is a GSD and a whole different kettle of fish. I am happy using a slip lead for the time being, until he gets used to people being close to him and also focussing on lots of walk and very little pressure. However, my main 100% stipulation is he is good with my dogs. Their happiness comes above all else.

But I really need breed experienced people to help me with my decision as I know Baba (a collie x) is not the same ball-game as a GSD.
 
Hmmm, this is a difficult one, without knowing all the circumstances it is hard to advise you. Personally I am always very wary of fear aggression. If he snapped when they were just putting on his lead that would concern me more than if the new owners had perhaps not taken notice of warning signs, and backed him into a corner (mentally or physically). The poor dog has had a lot of upheaval but a well balanced dog should be able to cope if the new owners were sensible.
You are so right in being breed aware, your example of Baba biting when put under pressure is definitely not the same as a GSD doing it, people tend not to give them a second chance in those circumstances. My other concern would be if he is a little nervous and your little uns had a pop at him he might just snap back.
Hopefully CC and Cayla will be on to offer advice, they have more experience with integrating older dogs. In the meantime would it be possible to speak to Pete and try and find a bit more detail as to exactly what happened at the new home, how long he had been there etc.
 
Kitsune said:
I have experience of a fear aggressive dog. My old and much missed Baba was very fear aggressive. Due to my family under socialising him really.

Baba would bite without warning when put in a pressure situation, so for instance when people got in his face or when cornered.

To me he was the most angelic dog alive, but to strangers he was dangerous.

I am not concerned about taking Vinny on overly, because of this - BUT he is a GSD and a whole different kettle of fish. I am happy using a slip lead for the time being, until he gets used to people being close to him and also focussing on lots of walk and very little pressure. However, my main 100% stipulation is he is good with my dogs. Their happiness comes above all else.

But I really need breed experienced people to help me with my decision as I know Baba (a collie x) is not the same ball-game as a GSD.
Click to expand...

I would still give him a go too.The owner has said he has never shown fear aggression before so i would say it is just to do with the upheaval.

Forewarned is forearmed as they say. I agree with Katie h and think maybe taking him for a few walks before you rehome might be a good idea, so you get to know him a bit. Did he show any fear in his own home? If not then I think he will be fine long term. I guess he met your dogs too?

I think a dog that is truly fear aggressive will show it when you visit them in their own home. I think this may have been due to the trauma of rehoming and may actually give an indication of how to go about the rehoming process to suit this particular dog.

I am sure Cayla will give more thorough advice though, but if he has never shown it before I would think it can be overcome with the right approach.

Shepherds are very, very loyal and this makes it harder to rehome them IMO. But the payoff is immense once they are loyal to you.
 
Hey guys

Will ask Pete for some more details and see where we go from here. The idea was to go up, meet Vin with my own dogs, see how they get along and go from there really. Clearly Pete is very honest - as he has taken Vinny back straight away, where I guess if he was only after money he would have said "not my problem!" so I know I can trust him to give me his honest opinion.

If Vinny goes into a rescue - I imagine the stress and horror of that will only make his fear worse, so maybe I can give him a go before then?

How do we feel on here about muzzling? I was thinking whilst we get to know him, a good steel muzzle to protect the dogs from gigantic jaws (not bothered about myself too much!) its not ideal, but it will keep us safe while we work on his issues and see if we can get past them?

Thoughts again xx
 
To summarise from a email I just got.

The new owners had had him an hour or two, he was asleep and they tried to wake him to go for a walk, when he didn't want to get up they left him a while and then tried again, they then had difficulty putting his halty on and then tried to do it from behind - which was when Vinny snapped.

Well, first of all IMO you never get behind an unknown dog and overcrowd him like that. When he doesn't know or trust you I think you are giving him a decision which will only go one way - trust me or don't. And most dogs choose "don't"!! If that had been me I would have let the dog come to and I would have slipped a chain round his neck, rather than invade his space so soon (if I was desperate to walk him after just a few hours!) Had he snapped I would have put him out of the room while the situation calmed down and tried again after a short while.

I think I would bite someone if they jumped on me when I woke up and then tried to put something on my head!
 
I don't usually post on threads about aggression as I think it is a serious issue which requires professional help (which I can't give!), however this seems like an unusual situation. I do agree with you that the new owners behaved in an odd way towards the dog and put too much pressure on him. Trying to do things with him so soon is not a good idea, it might have been better to give him his space and let him come to them when he was ready and trying to put a halti on of all things is quite unwise.

If you feel happy maybe he would be worth a try but do stay cautious with him just in case!
 
poor boy! Having someone force themselves on him like that! Is he totally out of control if not in a halti?

His owners seem to be being very honest with you... Has he ever shown any form of agression before?

Do you think you will give him a go?
 
I've had several GSDs. They don't like people invading their space, unless trusted and well known. I think Vinny responded as many GSDs would in an unsettled situation. My GSD (long since gone) would have reacted the same and she never showed aggression otherwise. I would definitely take a chance on Vinny and give it a go. The guy is being incredibly honest with you, so you know what you are dealing with. Once you've earned the dogs trust, I think you will have an incredibly faithful best friend. Good luck,

Sue
 
Righty Ho......I can firstly say we do commonly get dogs in that will until they settle be pretty withdrawn and unsettled when they arrive and are not opposed to grumbling or snapping if cornered or forced in any way, so without knowing what happened and how forceful they where it could be a case of shock horror who the hell are you or a sign that he is a potentially an aggressive dog!
I must say with new dog if I detect any fear or aggression like this or this scenario, I would have used a slip lead and not grappled with a halti and we would have been called to me and made to sit, I always feel it important to get alot of commands in and some firmness in the voice when taking them in, esp bigger breeds, to get the message that "yes you are new, but im no push over so take heed", and he would have been taken out whether he liked it or not, however I would maybe not expect anyone to do this with a large strange dog, but if I have learned one thing it's not to back of or back down when aggression or dominance is displayed, but in saying that, I dont forse myself and going charging on in there, there are ways and means and if u are fearful yourslef you are not going to get anywhere, which I assume these people where if they requested owner to come collect the dog, without being there you will never know what happened.
If u are still interested I would arrive at their house early and remain their for the day with the intent of handling him when the owner is present and taking him out with the owner and by yourself and assess the dog as I would, give him commands, sit, paw, stroke and ruffle his coat, when walking if he pulls give him a check as a chastise and see his reaction, and it's not a bad idea to see how he would give up a toy if he is used to them, after all if he does attempt to fight with your dogs u need to beable to restrain without being bitten, I would also want to see him off lead and ask the owner to carry out a few exercises with him also, and try and pass a few dogs and see what reaction u get, and basically cram alot into the day.
Also get him in and out of the car, leave the lead on when u do this incase he does get a little funny when you got o get him out.
They now need to be very careful where they place him and the ball is now in your court, I would hazard a guess u live further from him, if u have issues with him and your dogs and he turns on you how will u get him back or how long will it take the owner to collect him?
I would even go so far as to say, castrate him at your end, you will make the journey to meet him and spend the day and if you are confident and like what u see then ask them to bring him back to you.
 
My thoughts.

GSDs, when pent-up, frustrated, not getting enough exercise and are stressed, jump up and grab arms. Seen it a hundred times. It's not aggression, it's not biting or snapping, it is a young, gobby, entire male who needs a firm hand, a routine and exercise.
I have known a lot of GSDs who do this, when you go to get the lead on, bringing them out of kennels it is ten minutes of leaping around like a loon, grabbing leads, grabbing arms. No, mate, that is not how it works, get back down on the ground and settle down and then we can start moving.

People who have no experience of this misconstrue it as aggression.
 
Reading more details puts a different perspective on things. Does sound as if the people were particular stupid trying to corner him and put a halti on. Whilst i agree with CC about dogs leaping about getting hyper when first setting out on walks etc (Buffy still does this and she is generally quite doddery, bless her) I'm not sure if this was quite the situation with Vinny, sounds more like they woke him up. It is surprising that he had actually settled down to sleep in a strange environment so quickly. As usual Cayla has loads of sensible advice (creep, creep:o), I think your biggest obstacle is that you are a distance away from him Kitty, ideally I would think you should have a few visits and see if you and he can develop a relationship. Whether that is practical I am not sure.
 
Unfortunately Pete required an answer this morning, and it was a decision I was unable to make so quickly, being as I have a lot at stake with my own charges.

So Vinny will most likely have been taken by a rescue, who Pete contacted regarding his rehome previously.

Best wishes and luck to Vinny, lets hope to god he doesn't join the ranks of the similar dogs, in rescue forever..
 
Thats a shame, but don't think you could have been expected to rush into a decision, you had your own dogs to think of. Hopefully he will be properly assessed at the rescue and finds a new home soon.
 
I agree MM, unfortunately the logistics and the speed in which Pete needed Vinny to be rehomed, were not ideal. I hope he finds a nice home where people will give him a chance to settle.

In the meantime, my search continues - albeit tomorrow, as I'm dog tired :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top