Guess the % and cc on dressage test

[rowy]

I have finally managed to upload a video of a dressage test we have done and I am being brave and showing you all for advice.

This was October last year and only our second ever novice test. Since this test we have been working at home on transitions which are so much better now (note the blooper at first transition into canter!) also, the medium trots in this test are pretty much non-existant. we have also been working on these over winter as he really struggles balancing (he is only 5).

Also, I know I am kicking a lot. He just drops me as soon as we go down the centre line. We do medium trot all the way around the arena and he is going so forward but he is too clever and as soon as we go down the centre line he goes at snail pace so any advice regarding this would be great as well!

Also, the judge commented that he looks like he doesn't come through properly with one of his hind legs. She is the only judge that has ever commented on this and have had instructer and physio look at him and can't find anything except that he goes wonky and brings his bum to the inside on the left rein which might make it seem like he isn't coming through as much with one hind leg? But see what you think

http://youtu.be/fj9RjtifZT8

 

[Tonks]

He looks lovely but I do agree the judge. He doesn't look entirely level/sound behind. Can't see properly but it looked like the right hind to me. Maybe bilateral?

Sorry I'm sure that's not the answer you want. Others may disagree.

 

[Spiderman]

The main problem as I see it is that he is not in front of your leg. I'm sure you're all too aware of this but chasing him round in 'medium' trot isn't the answer, you'll just end up rushing him out of his balance and rhythm. He needs to be encouraged to be much sharper off your leg. Then lots and lots of short, sharp transitions. That is what I'd be doing with him before the bell goes.....stop, start, stop, start, on and back rather than running him off his legs.

I don't see him not coming through with a hind leg but there are definite straightness issues. these will be worse if his balance is compromised.

Having said all of the above, he is a very smart chap with three good paces. I like his canter in particular and when he strengthens, it could be very good indeed.

*whispers* he could also do with losing a little weight which might help his energy levels.

 

[maxine1985]

He looks lovely but I do agree the judge. He doesn't look entirely level/sound behind. Can't see properly but it looked like the right hind to me. Maybe bilateral?

Sorry I'm sure that's not the answer you want. Others may disagree.

Sorry but have to agree with this, may be worth getting a vet to check

Lovely horse though, lack of forwardness may be pain related, or like Spider said could just be a baby schooling issue and lack of balance

Not sure on score as judge may have marked you down but would say 63%?!

 

[rowy]

The main problem as I see it is that he is not in front of your leg. I'm sure you're all too aware of this but chasing him round in 'medium' trot isn't the answer, you'll just end up rushing him out of his balance and rhythm. He needs to be encouraged to be much sharper off your leg. Then lots and lots of short, sharp transitions. That is what I'd be doing with him before the bell goes.....stop, start, stop, start, on and back rather than running him off his legs.

I don't see him not coming through with a hind leg but there are definite straightness issues. these will be worse if his balance is compromised.

Having said all of the above, he is a very smart chap with three good paces. I like his canter in particular and when he strengthens, it could be very good indeed.

*whispers* he could also do with losing a little weight which might help his energy levels.

Thankyou!!! He is a good doer and I do struggle with his weight during the summer. He is also so much sharper and forward in the winter when he is in at night. He is a good weight at the moment and this summer I am going to focus on keeping his weight down and his fitness up! His paces are so much better when he is slimmer and fitter and much more forward as well!
The judge did say about his medium that he is losing balance and falling onto his forehand but she said she thought it was because he wasn't even behind. I think its more of a balance/ baby thing. This winter I have been working hard on it and he is so so much better!
Thanks for the tips regarding warm up! Will have a go at this at home!

 

[SpottedCat]

Aside from what has been said, in all the pics and vids you post, you are looking down and either have rounded shoulders or are tipping forwards or both. It ruins the picture because it makes the horse look on the forehand even when they are not! I've never commented because you haven't been asking for CC before, but I really think you could lift your marks considerably if you could spend some time strengthening your core so you sit up and hold yourself better. I think it would make a tremendous difference to the picture as a whole.

What do you do outside of riding? Some kind of core strength class would help with this, as would, I think, thinking of heavy elbows (that brings your shoulder blades into the right place without you pushing them back which tends to create tension in the shoulders because you think of holding them back rather than relaxing them back). Then as someone once said to me 'don't look at their head, you'll know if it falls off as the reins will get really heavy'

The looking down stops you preparing properly for the next movement too, which also won't help the marks - you need to be looking up and out so you can assess the next three strides, you can't influence the stride you're in the middle of, but you can affect how the next few go.

 

[rowy]

Sorry but have to agree with this, may be worth getting a vet to check

Lovely horse though, lack of forwardness may be pain related, or like Spider said could just be a baby schooling issue and lack of balance

He is very forward in warmup and in winter. Here are some links to more recent work we have done at home on medium-

http://youtu.be/9T2UmvOhkk0
http://youtu.be/0pqLC0BHRY0

I have some even more recent vids I will try and upload of him at home.

I have had physio watch him lunge and ride as well as saddler and haven't noticed anything. Would it be worth having his hinds xrayd? Rather than a full lameness workup.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I agree with Spiderman's comments. He's a smart horse and I was very pleasantly surprised by his canter - and I think that some of your using so much leg may be down to 'habit' and fear of him dropping off? I personally would not be using spurs yet on a horse that doesn't go off the leg. He needs to be sensitive to your leg first. Lots of transition exercises.

I thought he looked a little short behind (L/H) in the first minute as he came down the centre line and tracked off left, but I am no expert in spotting lameness. Hope this is helpful

 

[maxine1985]

He is very forward in warmup and in winter. Here are some links to more recent work we have done at home on medium-

http://youtu.be/9T2UmvOhkk0
http://youtu.be/0pqLC0BHRY0

I have some even more recent vids I will try and upload of him at home.

I have had physio watch him lunge and ride as well as saddler and haven't noticed anything. Would it be worth having his hinds xrayd? Rather than a full lameness workup.

I would have a lameness work up done personally, will work out cheaper than xrays if nothing is wrong, also may not be his hind limbs could be higher up but only a vet will be able to tell you that good luck

 

[pootleperkin]

I think for a 5 year old, he is doing a nice enough test. Agree you could sit and look up a bit more (I have to practice that too) and be more still. I like his canter too and he seems very obediant. I didn't think he looked overtly lame, but again, many more experienced than me would know better. However, I would trust those who know him best to spot lameness rather than those looking at a video. It could well be just a baby fitness/balance thing and I agree with Spiderman - he looked a little 'large' in the vid!

Score wise, I would say around 60 - 62%.

 

[MillionDollar]

I would guess around the 60% mark.

I agree with everything that Spiderman has said, he definitely looks behind your leg and not very straight. However, after seeing recent pics I'm guessing he has improved a lot since this video. A good idea would be (when the snow has thawed) to do this test at home again, video and then re-post, to look at the improvement You could also see if he looks sound in that as I agree that he does not look 100% sound.

 

[xspiralx]

I'm far from a dressage expert, so just commenting on what I see.

I agree he doesn't look sound, sorry. I'd definitely want to get that further investigated.

I know you say that he is dropping you unusually, hence the kicking, but I looked at a couple of your home videos and you do seem to be constantly kicking him in spurs, which I think will deaden him more to your leg and also does spoil the picture. I'd want to work on getting him a lot sharper off your leg at home so you don't have to constantly nag him with the spur.

He has a lovely canter and seemingly a willing attitude.

 

[Kat]

I also thought that there were times when he looked a bit off behind. Particularly the first bit where he came down the centre line and tracked left and on the half circles to change the rein. Could just be tension/resistance/lack of balance but could also be lameness.

I thought there were several points where it looked as though he was being rushed out of his rhythm in the trot. You were probably trying for bigger and got faster.

But I'm no expert....he is definitely gorgeous though and I don't normally like spotties

 

[ossy]

I have to agree, near the start of vid especially, he really dosen't look right behind, but I can't decide if he just has a weird action potentially coming from the lack of balance or whether he is actually lame.

% wise if the judge thought the horse was not level she should really have marked you down or ideally had a word with you before you left the area. I would say around 57%

 

[rowy]

Just uploaded this. This is a warm up video from December. Excuse my position- I was going for hands low and wide to get him to stretch down. And looking down just because its a habit. Just wanted to post it to see if u think he is still funny behind.

http://youtu.be/WA1WMzo5UcU

I have been looking at other welshes doing dressage (he is half welsh) and they all also seem to look funny behind when they have similar action to him and they get a bit unbalanced.

 

[rowy]

I have to agree, near the start of vid especially, he really dosen't look right behind, but I can't decide if he just has a weird action potentially coming from the lack of balance or whether he is actually lame.

% wise if the judge thought the horse was not level she should really have marked you down or ideally had a word with you before you left the area. I would say around 57%

If you watch at the end she did speak to me about. She said it was his off hind and marked down 2 of the first movements on the left rein where his off hind is on the outside because of it.
I scored 61% so most of you were correct I had done the prelim just before with the same judge and scored 67% though she did also comment on this about his hind legs.

Its interesting that most of you say its his near hind when she commented that it was his off hind.

 

[AdorableAlice]

He is an honest little chap and tries hard for you. Many would say 'on your bike' if something was pinching or hurting them.

When you have sorted the soundness out and with the greatest of respect, I would put the schooling whip and spurs aside and find a really good teacher to teach the little chap to be moving forwards with the lightest of aids.

You will find the more you thump, shove and push the more a horse will sit behind the leg and become numb to the aids.

Good luck.

 

[ester]

Just re the looking down/rounding shoulders.. my mum does this lots... she also rides mare who is bum high and will look on the forehand given the slightest opportunity.

Am pretty sure that when we do get her looking up/sitting straight she probably earns herself an extra half mark per movement

 

[Scarlett]

IMO he looks tight behind in all the vids... Personally I'd want to see him left alone in front and taught to actually go off the leg, you are constantly nagging with your leg and, again only my opinion and I'm no dressage diva, taking too much with the hand. He needs to go off the leg on the first ask, be straight, pushing evenly off each hind leg and into a soft contact. Forget where his head is and ride him forward.

Being straight and off the leg is the basis of everything, he doesnt look like he's quite 100% at either and this should be established before you go further IMO.

 

[ossy]

If you watch at the end she did speak to me about. She said it was his off hind and marked down 2 of the first movements on the left rein where his off hind is on the outside because of it.
I scored 61% so most of you were correct I had done the prelim just before with the same judge and scored 67% though she did also comment on this about his hind legs.

Its interesting that most of you say its his near hind when she commented that it was his off hind.

oh sorry I just read it that she had written on you sheet and I must have closed it down before that bit, can't be too obvious I'm avoiding work

 

[rowy]

He is an honest little chap and tries hard for you. Many would say 'on your bike' if something was pinching or hurting them.

.

haha not that honest! He lets me know straight away if something is not quite right or irritating him!!! The reason im not so sure that it is soundness!

For example- before christmas he started bucking and refusing to canter. Had the physio and saddler out and in the end we found out it was because he didn't like his new girth (I had just changed it) so changed him back to his new girth and all bucking stops and he is as good as new!

I have stopped riding him with the whip since the videos and have been working on getting him more forward off my leg. He always is a bit lazy at the beginning of the session. I have looked at the later videos and I am not using my leg so much. He is usually much more forward after canter too
With my instructer we have been working on stopping so much of the up and down movements of his leg and trying to get him to lengthen his stride and move a bit "smoother".

He has such a pony brain! Will try and take the easiest approach to everything! loses concentration so quickly!

 

[rowy]

oh sorry I just read it that she had written on you sheet and I must have closed it down before that bit, can't be too obvious I'm avoiding work

haha no worries

 

[YasandCrystal]

He always is a bit lazy at the beginning of the session. I have looked at the later videos and I am not using my leg so much. He is usually much more forward after canter too
With my instructer we have been working on stopping so much of the up and down movements of his leg and trying to get him to lengthen his stride and move a bit "smoother".

I am riding my daughter's cob mare and she is a really willing forward sort. She really tries to please but is just coming to the end of rehab for a tendon op so a little rusty and unsure of her hind leg following the op and the pain before.

She is so much better in trot after she has cantered - it seems to really open up the trot. I too have been working on getting her trot 'bigger' not so easy for a cob and I made the mistake of not pushing on enough in trot as I felt she was just speeding up not getting bigger. But it does come in time and in my case just push on and slow my rise a bit to encourage the bigger pace. Sitting up is very important - my instructor always says 'ride like you are so proud to be on her - this beautiful dressage horse ' She also says that's why dressage riders appear snooty - it makes the overall picture so much better

 

[rowy]

I am riding my daughter's cob mare and she is a really willing forward sort. She really tries to please but is just coming to the end of rehab for a tendon op so a little rusty and unsure of her hind leg following the op and the pain before.

She is so much better in trot after she has cantered - it seems to really open up the trot. I too have been working on getting her trot 'bigger' not so easy for a cob and I made the mistake of not pushing on enough in trot as I felt she was just speeding up not getting bigger. But it does come in time and in my case just push on and slow my rise a bit to encourage the bigger pace. Sitting up is very important - my instructor always says 'ride like you are so proud to be on her - this beautiful dressage horse ' She also says that's why dressage riders appear snooty - it makes the overall picture so much better

haha sounds like Rowan! Thanks for the advice

 

[ester]

Just a thought but I just wonder if he is more forwards after a canter because he has loosened up and lost some of the stiffness that he appears to have behind? Also re the girth I do think horses react differently to different issues, especially if it is something they have had for some time. F has certainly been stoic about some things and at other times been a complete girl/thought his leg was going to drop off/he was going to die.

 

[TwoStroke]

I agree that he looks unsound; you can see him dropping his right hip as he trots away. I'd get the vet to have a look - hope it's something straightforward .

 

[popsdosh]

I first saw it when you first posted and I personally would suspect o/h stifle did not post earlier as did not wish to be shot at the stake. He is just stiff on it and it actually shows up more on left hand bends as the inside leg is supporting more of the weight and having to work harder.

 

[Santa_Claus]

I would agree with judge it is off hind. Hind legs can be deceiving as they often dip more with the opposite hip which misleads the viewer. As for what is causing it I wouldn't want to say and it is but it is certainly also evident in the other videos as well. Have you got anything more recent video wise?

I would also agree re your shoulders/head and busy lower leg. Your overall position is good but you need to work on looking up which will naturally bring up your head and shoulders and in turn your horse's forehand as well. Your lower leg kicking away is probably a mixture of habit and him not being infront of the leg then becoming a vicious circle as he will now be ignoring your leg as you are essentially nagging him every stride. You need to give one quiet aid asking for a reaction, if it is not immediate you give a bigger aid and so on but only one aid at a time bring back each time. Once you have the reaction you reward and repeat until you literally ask once quietly and you get the reaction required. A very wise horsewoman told me once you have asked (say for trot) you shouldn't have to ask again until you wish to change whether within the pace or between them. Ok very few will reach that level but this is why pro's aids look invisible because their horses respond to individual small aids and don't require reminding

 

[ihatework]

I can't decide!

He doesn't look right behind, stilted and stuffy rather than outright lame.

It could easily be a combination of training/overweight/balance, but for piece of mind I'd probably just have a quick vet check, flexions and consider a short bute trial. If all okay on that front I'd suggest being very strict with yourself when riding.

You need to really concentrate on both your upper body position, how you carry your hands and keeping you lower leg much stiller (this is coming from someone who has plenty of their own issues FWIW!). I would suggest slowing everything down a fraction to help him find his balance, and short term try retraining your leg aid because I suspect at the moment it is all a bit fuzzy for him. Slimming him down will help as well.

 

[cundlegreen]

I agree with a lot of the remarks, especially the weight issue, but for goodness sake, he's five and a baby! Take him out of the school, take him hacking/hunting, both of which will get him going forward. He's a lovely chap, but I can see him spoilt if he keeps being nagged as he is. I'm speaking as somebody who has had lots to do with welsh D and crosses. They take a long time to mature both mentally and physically. Re the hind action, he doesn't flex his hocks enough and on the turns, his hocks turn out, and he then brings the whole hind leg right in. I think its a balance issue. His trot has improved though, although still not much period of suspension, but he's young.