*Gulp* here goes CC please

Carefreegirl

Carefreegirl

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Went to MK earlier for a bit of xc schooling. My main problems are very wavy hands and flinging myself forward over the fence so end up ahead of the horse. I used to twist really badly from the waist (sideways) but am seeing a chiropractor which is really helping.

So fire away :D

I think this one best describes my flingy-twisty style...

XCschooling7thMarch013_zps5dbed1f2.jpg



I read Arctic Fox's thread the other day about her lower leg and a lot of you all agreed she needed to push her bum out behind her (sorry AF talking about your bum :o) so tried which I think seemed to work ?

XCschooling7thMarch039_zps798a5c75.jpg



On the approach I feel like I'm encouraging her but....

XCschooling7thMarch055_zpsd711ad65.jpg


A stride later and I'm flingy-twisty again

XCschooling7thMarch056_zps733e3300.jpg



This pic I liked at first but having looked at it again it doesn't look right......:confused:

XCschooling7thMarch067_zpsa9abf1fe.jpg



And just a couple coz I like her stretchy legs :)

XCschooling7thMarch025_zpsce19d945.jpg


XCschooling7thMarch072_zps38822dc7.jpg



So fire away, I well 'ard so won't cry - well not much !


Just to prove I do listen to what my instrutors tells me here I am repeating it to myself ;)

http://youtu.be/wBiSDCctWDw
 
OP I HATE when people lurk on these posts & dont reply!!

Im NO expert but I defo think the " stick your bum out" pic is heeps better than the first pic:)

Id be worried you are quite in front of the movement that if the horse takes a stumble etc you are going to go head first over his head.

I read a clever tip here somewhere re putting a plait up the mane 1/3 of the way up - this may be worth a shot as to where your hands should be & then by shifting your bum back you may be alot more balanced....

Love the stretchy pics! your horse is gorgeous btw:D

Carefreegirl said:
Went to MK earlier for a bit of xc schooling. My main problems are very wavy hands and flinging myself forward over the fence so end up ahead of the horse. I used to twist really badly from the waist (sideways) but am seeing a chiropractor which is really helping.

So fire away :D

I think this one best describes my flingy-twisty style...

XCschooling7thMarch013_zps5dbed1f2.jpg



I read Arctic Fox's thread the other day about her lower leg and a lot of you all agreed she needed to push her bum out behind her (sorry AF talking about your bum :o) so tried which I think seemed to work ?

XCschooling7thMarch039_zps798a5c75.jpg



On the approach I feel like I'm encouraging her but....

XCschooling7thMarch055_zpsd711ad65.jpg


A stride later and I'm flingy-twisty again

XCschooling7thMarch056_zps733e3300.jpg



This pic I liked at first but having looked at it again it doesn't look right......:confused:

XCschooling7thMarch067_zpsa9abf1fe.jpg



And just a couple coz I like her stretchy legs :)

XCschooling7thMarch025_zpsce19d945.jpg


XCschooling7thMarch072_zps38822dc7.jpg



So fire away, I well 'ard so won't cry - well not much !


Just to prove I do listen to what my instrutors tells me here I am repeating it to myself ;)

http://youtu.be/wBiSDCctWDw
Click to expand...
 
I would just add that in some of the pics your reins are quite long - esp the first, so you are having to gather your hands into your stomach which makes it difficult to follow the movement forward (if that makes sense).
 
showpony said:
OP I HATE when people lurk on these posts & dont reply!!

Im NO expert but I defo think the " stick your bum out" pic is heeps better than the first pic:)

Id be worried you are quite in front of the movement that if the horse takes a stumble etc you are going to go head first over his head.

I read a clever tip here somewhere re putting a plait up the mane 1/3 of the way up - this may be worth a shot as to where your hands should be & then by shifting your bum back you may be alot more balanced....

Love the stretchy pics! your horse is gorgeous btw:D
Click to expand...


Thanks Showpony - though I must confess to being one of those who don't reply to CC posts :o

The plait idea I also read on AF's post. I put a neck strap on and try to use that, I tend to use it much more SJ. In my defence I haven't jumped xc since April last year so not quite as quick thinking as I should be.

Your comment about the horse stumbling will stick in my mind thankyou. I say that as the landing pic of me over the log I look like I'm gripping with my knees and not absorbing the pressure into my lower leg (if that makes sense ?)

She's not mine, belongs to YO but I'm the lucky Pilot :D


Copperpot said:
I so need to stick my bum out. Wish I'd braved the rain and come now. Could have shouted "bum" at each other as we took off!!
Click to expand...

Yeah light weight ;) It actually stopped raining so didn't get wet :D



Heres us going a decent size jump - I had brave pants on :p
http://youtu.be/TgseUJCOPnM
 
sussex_sun said:
I would just add that in some of the pics your reins are quite long - esp the first, so you are having to gather your hands into your stomach which makes it difficult to follow the movement forward (if that makes sense).
Click to expand...


Guilty as charged ! Both my instructors are always telling me to shorten my reins.

I'm hoping by actually seeing comments written down it may stick in my mind.

Thankyou :)
 
Can I just butt in and have a little grumble about the plait idea. Yes it will get your hands forward - which is preferable to not getting them forward, but by pushing your hands up the crest, you can't have a straight line from elbow, through hand, to mouth - which means your contact and communication with the horses mouth isn't there. Better, in my extremely humble opinion, to imagine a red dot half way down the neck strap/horses shoulderblade on each side - and aim to have your hands there.
 
ArcticFox said:
I know what you mean but if you look on google images of the top riders - the whittakers, Scott brash etc they all have their hands up the neck so it can't be wrong can it?
Click to expand...

I'm not a massive fan of the way most showumpers ride tbh. Crest release is pretty widespread these days, and obviously it works, or thy wouldn't all bw doing it. It just doesn't sit very easily with me, because it goes against everything I believe in in terms of contact.
 
Another tip I have heard to improve your jumping position is to think "belly button to pommel" which achieves the same thing as bum back! I was also told to do lots and lots of work in a 2 point seat and to hack out like this especially up hill! I find it really difficult up hill but it does improve your balance and lower leg strength. I find a neck strap essential to resort to when needed rather than accidentally pull on the reins
 
So moving away from SJers. Doing the same thing for William fox Pitt, Mary king, Zara Phillips etc also do it.

It can't be totally wrong if the top riders are doing it. And looking at the mouths of the horses they aren't being yanked In the teeth so I guess it doesn't matter what way you do it as long as you are balanced? X
 
I think the problem with pushing you hands towards the horse's mouth as opposed to up their neck is that you're in a much more vunerable position if the hit the fence and lurch forward. At least with your hands on the horses crest you can brace them against it aswell as obviously using your amazingly sticky seat and achored lower leg to prevent you going splat;)

I couple years ago I was watching Pat Burgess teach a jumping clinic. She said that when you're going over the jump imagine you're at a busy party, you're sat in a nice comfy chair but you need to grab your glass of vodka (twas always orange squash with the little'uns) which is on a table in front of you. If you stand up to get it, someone's going to nick your seat so instead you need to push your hands forward whilst keeping your bum close to the saddle. That way you keep your comfy chair and get your drink. Rather a lot to think about when you're going over a fence but for whatever reason (the vodka perhaps!?) it stuck in my head.

Gorgoeus horse btw :)
 
Charem said:
I couple years ago I was watching Pat Burgess teach a jumping clinic. She said that when you're going over the jump imagine you're at a busy party, you're sat in a nice comfy chair but you need to grab your glass of vodka (twas always orange squash with the little'uns) which is on a table in front of you. If you stand up to get it, someone's going to nick your seat so instead you need to push your hands forward whilst keeping your bum close to the saddle. That way you keep your comfy chair and get your drink. Rather a lot to think about when you're going over a fence but for whatever reason (the vodka perhaps!?) it stuck in my head.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's because I'm a dipsomaniac, but I really, really like that :D
 
I see you jumping ahead and then getting left behind. I think there is too much movement going on. I would work on a solid two point (on my college equitation team we were told Pam Anderson up front, JLo behind- ie chest up and open, hips back, lol). Then I would practice over grids and small jumps approaching in that solid two point- and not changing anything. No movement. Let the horse jump to you- you don't need to jump for your horse.
 
I do all of these things too :o. My instructor says think of lowering your chest to the neck and sliding your bum back rather than standing up.

She says it rather a lot :( so its sticking in my mind now :o:)
 
ArcticFox said:
So moving away from SJers. Doing the same thing for William fox Pitt, Mary king, Zara Phillips etc also do it.

It can't be totally wrong if the top riders are doing it. And looking at the mouths of the horses they aren't being yanked In the teeth so I guess it doesn't matter what way you do it as long as you are balanced? X
Click to expand...

I'm hardly in a position to criticise - not being a top rider! Anyway, riding at the level they do, they can jump a fence with their hands in their pockets if they want to! The top riders do tend to be a lot more elastic in the contact than us lesser mortals - rarely see a fixed arm, or hands resting on the neck. What I also failed to say is that the elbow-hand-horses mouth line isn't always in the same place - if you look at WFP, he usually has a straight line to the horses mouth, but where his hands are depends on where the horses head is. Using the half way down the neck tip is just a tip, to get riders thinking - hands forward towards the mouth.

What I'm trying, really badly, to explain - is that the elbow is a moving part, and if it, and the hand are lined up with the horses mouth, the contact can be lighter, more elastic, and more connected to the horse. As a dressage person, if I don't have communication down the rein with the horse at all times, I've failed. This spills over into jumping for me, partly because I was trained that my hands should follow the horses mouth, and partly because the dressage has made me very conscious of keeping those lines of communication open, and elastic.

David Broome does it for me in terms of hands over a fence - very rarely do you see pictures of him without a straight line elbow-hand-horses mouth.
 
Charem said:
I think the problem with pushing you hands towards the horse's mouth as opposed to up their neck is that you're in a much more vunerable position if the hit the fence and lurch forward. At least with your hands on the horses crest you can brace them against it aswell as obviously using your amazingly sticky seat and achored lower leg to prevent you going splat;)
Click to expand...

I cann't comment, as I am a committed member of the "Slip the reins, stick your feet forward, close your eyes, and let the horse sort itself out" club!!
 
Cor, thought this had sunk without a trace :)

Auslander said:
Can I just butt in and have a little grumble about the plait idea. Yes it will get your hands forward - which is preferable to not getting them forward, but by pushing your hands up the crest, you can't have a straight line from elbow, through hand, to mouth - which means your contact and communication with the horses mouth isn't there. Better, in my extremely humble opinion, to imagine a red dot half way down the neck strap/horses shoulderblade on each side - and aim to have your hands there.
Click to expand...


My problem with my hands is not that I fix them but I tend to start a one woman mexican wave four strides away from a fence hence the neck strap. When I SJ I tend to hook my little finger through it which helps. Having something to focus on helps, beit a plait, neck strap or red dot :)


ArcticFox said:
I know what you mean but if you look on google images of the top riders - the whittakers, Scott brash etc they all have their hands up the neck so it can't be wrong can it?
Click to expand...

Doesn't Ellen Whittaker grab a handful of mane as she goes over a jump ?


Mavis007 said:
Another tip I have heard to improve your jumping position is to think "belly button to pommel" which achieves the same thing as bum back! I was also told to do lots and lots of work in a 2 point seat and to hack out like this especially up hill! I find it really difficult up hill but it does improve your balance and lower leg strength. I find a neck strap essential to resort to when needed rather than accidentally pull on the reins
Click to expand...

I like the belly button idea. I do quite a lot of riding 2 point as we have some quite good hills. I tend to do it on the flat and down hills rather than uphill.

ArcticFox said:
So moving away from SJers. Doing the same thing for William fox Pitt, Mary king, Zara Phillips etc also do it.

It can't be totally wrong if the top riders are doing it. And looking at the mouths of the horses they aren't being yanked In the teeth so I guess it doesn't matter what way you do it as long as you are balanced? X
Click to expand...

Yeah but they're balanced in every aspect :) If only I was rich.....

Charem said:
I think the problem with pushing you hands towards the horse's mouth as opposed to up their neck is that you're in a much more vunerable position if the hit the fence and lurch forward. At least with your hands on the horses crest you can brace them against it aswell as obviously using your amazingly sticky seat and achored lower leg to prevent you going splat;)

I couple years ago I was watching Pat Burgess teach a jumping clinic. She said that when you're going over the jump imagine you're at a busy party, you're sat in a nice comfy chair but you need to grab your glass of vodka (twas always orange squash with the little'uns) which is on a table in front of you. If you stand up to get it, someone's going to nick your seat so instead you need to push your hands forward whilst keeping your bum close to the saddle. That way you keep your comfy chair and get your drink. Rather a lot to think about when you're going over a fence but for whatever reason (the vodka perhaps!?) it stuck in my head.

Gorgoeus horse btw :)
Click to expand...

Blimey is Pat Burgess still around ? I had a lesson with her 20+ years ago. Still watch it now on my VHS video:) I'm quite happy to think 'Vodka' as I go over a fence :D

Paladine said:
I see you jumping ahead and then getting left behind. I think there is too much movement going on. I would work on a solid two point (on my college equitation team we were told Pam Anderson up front, JLo behind- ie chest up and open, hips back, lol). Then I would practice over grids and small jumps approaching in that solid two point- and not changing anything. No movement. Let the horse jump to you- you don't need to jump for your horse.
Click to expand...

Pam up front I aint, Jlo behind - juries out ;) When I'm at my most 'flingy' my instructor will have me jumping in a 2 point and I'm not allowed to change my position at any point. Thankyou, helpful comments :)

Auslander said:
I cann't comment, as I am a committed member of the "Slip the reins, stick your feet forward, close your eyes, and let the horse sort itself out" club!!
Click to expand...

I can do slip the reins and close your eyes - sometimes I even remember the feet forward. Maybe that's why I can jump drop fences all day long :o
 
On a slight aside - as I do not always practice what I preach, there have been occasions where I've ended up with my hands on the crest. I have used the neck to prevent myself going out the front door, and will never do so again, as I dislocated my thumb so badly that it was stuck across my palm, pointing at the other side of my wrist - and after A&E struggling for HOURS, I had to have a general aesthetic so they could restore it to its usual position!
 
BM - I'm incensed - that is me in the picture just photoshopped to look like someone else ;)

Seriously though when you only ride one horse it's tough to get out of years of bad habits. To have the luxury of riding lots of different horses and having loads of tuition would be my idea of heaven.

So basically on my lesson tomorrow I need to remember: hands, tits, belly button, plait, neckstrap, red dot, bum, 2 point, not moving and vodka :) gonna be a looooongggg lesson !
 
I'm constantly trying to improve my position too and have similar issues to you, espeically the long reins! I cringe when I see pictures!

I think it also has a lot to do with the approach and take off. My mare like to hurdle things from afar where possible, which makes it hard to fold correctly over the fence. When I have her in a nice contained, balanced canter and I can maintain the leg to hand contact all the way into the fence, then the jump is a lot neater and cleaner and makes it easier for me to sit in balance and fold correctly.

I love the reaching for the vodka idea! I dislike Vodka so will supplement it for a large glass of white wine and give it a go!
 
Auslander said:
Lol - I was going to use Lucinda Green as an example of an amazing jump seat. My childhood idol!
Click to expand...

she does have the amazing seat and balance. Also interesting how she is always ready to slip her reins.

I don't find a neckstrap helpful when trying to think about keeping hands low. It moves too much!I put on a breastplate and have that as a guide. Neckstrap is for when I hack out in case I need to grab something.

A cheap way to practise the grabbing the vodka idea (which I love) is to buy one of those cheap blow up exercise balls. Look them up on You tube, look at some of the exercises and play with that. Really really helpful in terms of getting the right feel and how your balance is. (though if you have dogs like me, it can end up being a bit of a car crash as they have not worked out that a flying leap on my lap when I am sitting on the ball simply results in us all falling off!)
 
Not read everyone's posts so sorry if its already been said. Too me it looks like your stirrups are too long. If you wack them up about 2-3 holes you will get your butt back and your hands will naturally be a bit more forward without your body being up the neck.
Unless you have a reason for riding that long or are you quite tall? Over smaller jumps its not really an issue but as you jump bigger you will need to be a bit shorter.
 
Last edited:
I love how this has become yet another crest release vs automatic release thread.

I thought we'd done that to death last year but clearly not ;)

Sorry, nothing useful to add as all the things you do, I do too and I haven't managed to stop myself yet so probably can't advise anyone else! Lovely horse though :)
 
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