Devonshire dumpling
Well-Known Member
Did the Vet recommend PTS? He looked happy and alert in the photo a week before?? So I expect he's just feeling really unhappy with his leg which hopefully you will sort out. Do you still have him on loan? X
Gutted, poor old horse. What else can I do?
- Thread starter Fools Motto
- Start date
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
No, don't have on loan now. Like I said 17 years ago for 10 months while my other TB was lame I 'borrowed' him from the family member. Did PC camp and stuff.
I've known the horse a long time, led him round at several p2ps too. He has had more than his share of bad luck, and he hates men, hence why owner can't catch him.
He is old, he has lost weight, more so in the last week suddenly. Last winter he looked poor under the care soley of owner, and now I thought I was winning it so far as I have a good feeding regime, his owner wants to feed him oats and oats alone.
Just what is the point of trying to keep him healthy when owner doesn't really know what he is doing? If the owner is so cross at vets bills and feed bills (I buy the feed! then bill him for 1 out of 3 bags! - and mine don't eat half of what he does.) I also get the farrier out.
I know it is nice to keep happy healthy old horses, but there is no point of this horse living anymore. Before he deteriorates further, can't it be nice to say bye?
The vet agreed his quality of life is poor, his circulation is poor. He is old. Yet, owner wanted to try the 5 day course... Apart from a painkiller, it would save worry let alone money on everyone to have it done peacefully rather than finding him down and unable to rise... like his old horse, whom I remember looked awful on his last day collapsed in the front paddock. I don't want history to repeat it self. Thats not fair on anyone.
I've known the horse a long time, led him round at several p2ps too. He has had more than his share of bad luck, and he hates men, hence why owner can't catch him.
He is old, he has lost weight, more so in the last week suddenly. Last winter he looked poor under the care soley of owner, and now I thought I was winning it so far as I have a good feeding regime, his owner wants to feed him oats and oats alone.
Just what is the point of trying to keep him healthy when owner doesn't really know what he is doing? If the owner is so cross at vets bills and feed bills (I buy the feed! then bill him for 1 out of 3 bags! - and mine don't eat half of what he does.) I also get the farrier out.
I know it is nice to keep happy healthy old horses, but there is no point of this horse living anymore. Before he deteriorates further, can't it be nice to say bye?
The vet agreed his quality of life is poor, his circulation is poor. He is old. Yet, owner wanted to try the 5 day course... Apart from a painkiller, it would save worry let alone money on everyone to have it done peacefully rather than finding him down and unable to rise... like his old horse, whom I remember looked awful on his last day collapsed in the front paddock. I don't want history to repeat it self. Thats not fair on anyone.
starbar
Well-Known Member
I don't think he looks ready to go either. I do think he needs more TLC though. Cold hosing that leg, making sure there is no mud fever etc. Can't he come in at night? A nice warm dry stable with a straw bed for him lie in in might go a long way, I wouldn't want a horse of mine that was that old and a bit rickety and unwell to be out in all weathers.
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
he can come in at night, but he won't eat and won't be able to move as he gets so stiff. He will also be lonely and I think at his age that is almost too sad for him.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
FWIW I quite agree with you but sadly, it might take something like horse not being able to move in the morning for the desperate situation to sink in to noggin headed owner; at what cost to the horse we can only imagine.
beeswax
Well-Known Member
I bet it will eat and hay/haylage is more valuable and cost efficient than bags of food, you put the old lad in a box with a nice big pile of hay on the floor he might be a bit restless at first but I bet in the morning the hay will be gone, and if he did die in the night at least he was in a warm box on a soft bed than out in the cold, bit sentimental I know but thats me, also if you put bandages on his hind legs after cold hosing them and giving them a good ole brush for any nicks and mud fever I think it will help with the stiffness in the morning, shame you had 10 beautiful months with him, and the owner just sounds like one of those that opens their mouths before their brain is engaged and tomorrow wont say a thing about what was said tonight.
beeswax
Well-Known Member
What happened is the old boy a bit happier today?
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
I agree, you're absolutely right to let him stay out to prevent him from seizing up and to have company.
Warm beds are for poorly people, not horses.
PeterNatt
Well-Known Member
The most important thing is to get a nice warm waterproof rug on the horse. If the horse is a family member then I am sure you can afford to buy him a nice one to keep him comfortable.
Mildred
Well-Known Member
Mud fever can cause massive swelling like that, hopefully the anti-B's will work in due course. Im certain I have a heavier turnout that will fit, Im in Wilts but could post it anyway - let me know if you need one.
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
Some good news today is that he is much happier and clearly the leg doesn't hurt nearly so much. The lump itself seems to have got bigger though but only feeling minor heat in it. Still scratching my head about what it can be?? (knock, kick, thorn or more 'inside damage' to his tendon?) He has eaten well, he had his food out with the others, but as requested by the owner, I caught him and led him in after he had finished - he even jogged a few steps!!!
He is in his stable now, but during the daylight hours he can have the run of the little concrete yard - complete with hazzards, but there you go. I mean, when do you allow a horse to wonder around, complete with a chicken house, lots of logs, a wooden saw horse, my 'neat' pile of show jumps, my parked trailer and a trampoline!!!! lol
The owner will give him his jab, and put a sachet of bute into a small feed. It shouldn't be a problem, as the owner can catch him when in, but if there is a prob, then I'm only just up the road.
I have a rug 'in transit' many huge thanks to a HHO member. The horse will stay in for a few days, (dependent on how he eats??), then hopefully go out in a nice warmer rug.
The owner did admit to knowing he should be PTS before he deteriorates, but he claims 'they are mates' and he wants to give him another chance. I just hope that it won't go on if the treatment doesn't work.
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
Well, it's better than nothing and you have done a great deal towards this old lad's present comfort and future welfare. I doubt there's really much more you could do, really, under the circumstances.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Ditto this. You've tried your best, hopefully he'll listen to the old boy at the end but great that he's more cheerful today although that might just be the ABs helping out; be prepared for a backward step when they've finished.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
That sounds as though there has been a bit of progress in all areas - owner admitting the horse shouldn't be allowed to deteriorate and the horse seeming happier... Fingers crossed for you all..xx
Tickles
Well-Known Member
Sounds good. Sometimes even older animals pull through surprisingly well... I've had a couple of 'this is it' experiences that didn't end up that way.
If owner is looking after horse in conjunction with vet now, which he sounds to be, then that is probably best for all.
Don't dwell on it too much - the exact timing of these things is often subjective and can be partly a 'learnt' preference too. Either way you're unlikely to make the exact same decision as another person except in he event of an emergency.
So, you've done our bit and can now put the thoughts away in a box (metaphorically speaking) until they come in handy.
If owner is looking after horse in conjunction with vet now, which he sounds to be, then that is probably best for all.
Don't dwell on it too much - the exact timing of these things is often subjective and can be partly a 'learnt' preference too. Either way you're unlikely to make the exact same decision as another person except in he event of an emergency.
So, you've done our bit and can now put the thoughts away in a box (metaphorically speaking) until they come in handy.
SaharaS
Well-Known Member
Just stumbled across some useful herbs for puffy legs /veterans Clivers & calendular...just thought i'd mention
Happy New year to you & Horse x
Happy New year to you & Horse x
beeswax
Well-Known Member
Thats wonderful news. I take it the owner is putting hay out for him seeing he is loose on a concrete yard?? The bump seems to be more mid canon rather than back towards tendon, if there is something in the lump it is going to burst out whatever it might be, I would still shave an area around the bump to see if there is maybe a thorn of something there. Glad to hear the owner actually does like the horse and wants to give him another chance, maybe this was a wake up call, but please continue to keep your eyes on him though. Keep us all posted.
jendie
Well-Known Member
Could you maybe get the Vet to suggest to the owner that PTS is the best option for the poor old boy.
Failing that the OWNER has the responsibility of providing a warm rug and the best possible care. Don't let him rant at you, you are doing your best but it isn't your horse.
Failing that the OWNER has the responsibility of providing a warm rug and the best possible care. Don't let him rant at you, you are doing your best but it isn't your horse.
legaldancer
Well-Known Member
Not going to get into the PTS or not debate, other than to say apart from the leg I think he looks in reasonable shape for his age.
However, regarding the lump: is it hard or soft? My old boy got a huge splint a few years ago and vet thought he may have broken his splint bone. No idea how he got it and he was only a bit lame before the swelling appeared. It looks very like the lump on your horse.
However, regarding the lump: is it hard or soft? My old boy got a huge splint a few years ago and vet thought he may have broken his splint bone. No idea how he got it and he was only a bit lame before the swelling appeared. It looks very like the lump on your horse.
Honeylight
Well-Known Member
How are the other horses with him? I just wonder whether he might have been kicked? Horses have a habit of turning on a failing companion that's at the end of its life.
indie999
Well-Known Member
Just started my tree trunk legged old boy on a bit of bute as he was clicking in his hind and i really thought it was going to be curtains as he looked very uncomfortable and stumbling etc...eating for England.
Well couldnt believe the transformation with the bute(after 3 half sachets every 3-4 days) I had galloping, bucking on spot, snorting, pawing the ground. I havent seen this for years! Obviously he was uncomfortable & perhaps I feel a bit guilty not getting vet out earlier.
I think if they have teeth are eating and is happy??? not sure?? would continue and agree would feed any feeds etc away from others if they are underweight and so they dont get bullied away from the food(my greedy good doer use to pinch the other stick pins food). We use to segregate at some point in the day so he could eat in peace. In the end he was PTS as he wasnt keeping weight on at all and lost most of his teeth 36 years. Sounds like you are doing a FAB job and about time the owner took the lead. Good luck.
Well couldnt believe the transformation with the bute(after 3 half sachets every 3-4 days) I had galloping, bucking on spot, snorting, pawing the ground. I havent seen this for years! Obviously he was uncomfortable & perhaps I feel a bit guilty not getting vet out earlier.
I think if they have teeth are eating and is happy??? not sure?? would continue and agree would feed any feeds etc away from others if they are underweight and so they dont get bullied away from the food(my greedy good doer use to pinch the other stick pins food). We use to segregate at some point in the day so he could eat in peace. In the end he was PTS as he wasnt keeping weight on at all and lost most of his teeth 36 years. Sounds like you are doing a FAB job and about time the owner took the lead. Good luck.
Hedgewitch13
Well-Known Member
I'm sure the old boy is silently thanking you for caring so much about him. Well done for all your efforts so far.
I do have a spare rug but I'm in Hants and as it's a heavy weight with neck it would sadly cost a fortune to send to you. If you can think of a way of getting it you are most welcome to have it as a spare (6ft 6" - fitted my 16.2 tb mare).
I hope he continues to perk up xx
I do have a spare rug but I'm in Hants and as it's a heavy weight with neck it would sadly cost a fortune to send to you. If you can think of a way of getting it you are most welcome to have it as a spare (6ft 6" - fitted my 16.2 tb mare).
I hope he continues to perk up xx
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
Update
To be honest its not fantastic.
The horse is still in, with a run into the little yard - when it is not raining anyway. His little tiny (not very deep) jute stable rug isn't waterproof 'quote from owner!'
His leg is still very swollen, the lump isn't so defined because the leg has swelled up more. Thought it would tbh. I don't think it is as painful as it was first, but more painful than it was yesterday. He is also creaking alot when he moves, which wasn't something I'd noticed before. I think all his joints ache.
I managed to catch the owner very briefly and all I managed to get out of the conversation was 'having the AB jab, won't poltice it (I offered in case of foriengn <SP!> body) and not giving him any bute as want to see how painful it is!
He had several nice newly filled hay nets - the horse was picking away at one while I was there. There was an old feed bowl on the floor, full of *********g oats and old stale mix - I had been delibrately avoiding them (grrr) and the chickens thought it was their birthdays and christmases all in one!
I removed the feed, tipped it onto the muck heap and gave a large handful of his fav mix and some carrots into the feed bowl that hangs on the door. He did start to eat, but soon lost total enthusiasm for anything. He hung his head low and cuddled my friend who came with me today. Almost as if he was crying... I felt so sad.
He was however quite thirsty and drank 2 buckets (he was bone dry when I arrived).
I left him with a tidy clean bed, fresh food and fresh water. I gave him a polo and felt I could do very little more.
When he is out with my two, they know he is an eldery man, the youngster follows him like a shadow (she is missing him) but she never plays with him or even tries to, just eats grass with him and keeps him company. My mare is too independent to be bothered by him, but equally if he isn't there then the herd isn't complete so they do neigh for each other. She would never kick him, a swift 'ears back to move' does the trick - he keeps his distance.
Will have to see what tomorrow brings, but for now I really do feel so sorry for the horse.
To be honest its not fantastic.
The horse is still in, with a run into the little yard - when it is not raining anyway. His little tiny (not very deep) jute stable rug isn't waterproof 'quote from owner!'
His leg is still very swollen, the lump isn't so defined because the leg has swelled up more. Thought it would tbh. I don't think it is as painful as it was first, but more painful than it was yesterday. He is also creaking alot when he moves, which wasn't something I'd noticed before. I think all his joints ache.
I managed to catch the owner very briefly and all I managed to get out of the conversation was 'having the AB jab, won't poltice it (I offered in case of foriengn <SP!> body) and not giving him any bute as want to see how painful it is!
He had several nice newly filled hay nets - the horse was picking away at one while I was there. There was an old feed bowl on the floor, full of *********g oats and old stale mix - I had been delibrately avoiding them (grrr) and the chickens thought it was their birthdays and christmases all in one!
I removed the feed, tipped it onto the muck heap and gave a large handful of his fav mix and some carrots into the feed bowl that hangs on the door. He did start to eat, but soon lost total enthusiasm for anything. He hung his head low and cuddled my friend who came with me today. Almost as if he was crying... I felt so sad.
He was however quite thirsty and drank 2 buckets (he was bone dry when I arrived).
I left him with a tidy clean bed, fresh food and fresh water. I gave him a polo and felt I could do very little more.
When he is out with my two, they know he is an eldery man, the youngster follows him like a shadow (she is missing him) but she never plays with him or even tries to, just eats grass with him and keeps him company. My mare is too independent to be bothered by him, but equally if he isn't there then the herd isn't complete so they do neigh for each other. She would never kick him, a swift 'ears back to move' does the trick - he keeps his distance.
Will have to see what tomorrow brings, but for now I really do feel so sorry for the horse.
Tickles
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to say this but I think you are way out of order chucking away the feed an owner gives their horse and substituting something else.
Unless the owner has specifically entrusted horse to you (which might be the case, I'm not quite sure if you're the yard owner or just share facilities with the horse's owner - apologies if I've missed this part) then it isn't really your place to do that. And even then you should have spoken to the owner about it.
It doesn't mean you're wrong in what you'd do with the horse, just that most owners would be (rightly) furious with you for interfering.
Horse is being seen by vet. Time to walk away unless you call in a welfare organisation.
Unless the owner has specifically entrusted horse to you (which might be the case, I'm not quite sure if you're the yard owner or just share facilities with the horse's owner - apologies if I've missed this part) then it isn't really your place to do that. And even then you should have spoken to the owner about it.
It doesn't mean you're wrong in what you'd do with the horse, just that most owners would be (rightly) furious with you for interfering.
Horse is being seen by vet. Time to walk away unless you call in a welfare organisation.
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
Arhh, I had been feeding the horse the food I provided (with owners permission) for at least the past 5/6 weeks. We had talked about the stale feed (6 years old apparently - and proud it was so!!) and the oats, the owner agreeing that it was fine for me to carry on, and 'his feed' would be fed to the cattle. 'His' feed hasn't been moved yet, and is still in the feed bins. I had pointed this out again recently.
The horse was never going to eat what is stale, nor what the chickens had messed in. He can't even digest oats anymore, what he does eat I've seen in his droppings.
It is not only bad for the horse in his age to be fed such crap but also its not good as a sudden change of food can upset them. Regarding what the owner says now, I want the horse to enjoy his food, he needs it after all.
As for 'not having bute', well the owner did pick up the appropriate number of sachets to give him, from the vets on their instructions. Technically now going against those instructions as he is not being given them. Thoughts on that?
liveryblues
Well-Known Member
Just wondered if there was any news on this old boy? I was following the thread hoping for a good outcome (for me that would be one happy fixed old man back out with his friends in a decent rug but appreciate this may not be the case )
(for me that would be one happy fixed old man back out with his friends in a decent rug but appreciate this may not be the case )dunkley
Well-Known Member
I think the owner is being an ostrich - for whatever reasons. He is very misguided, and needs a reality kick up the proverbial. IF he is 'fond' of the horse, he should be willing to do the best thing by him, whether that is appropriate feed/rugs, or having him put down Can you get the vet 'on side' so to speak, and ask him to spell out the situation in words of few syllables?
Can you get the vet 'on side' so to speak, and ask him to spell out the situation in words of few syllables?
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
Don't know if this is good news or bad
BUT
Horse's leg has burst, the lump is there but going. A trickle of gunky pus is now running down his leg and he doesn't mind one poking it. (that is an improvement). However, the leg is still swollen and my offer of polticing it has gone to deaf ears. Whether or not the problem has been a thorn or something, I don't know, but there is currently a 50p sized hole where the lump was. The leg is still swollen, but the heat from it has all but gone. He is walking 100% sound, (still stiff mind). Can't say he is sound as have not (and don't plan to) trot him up.
He had hay and water (yay) but he also had an almost full bucket of feed. I genuinely think he 'doesn't want to know' hard feed, and I;m 99% positive he will eat when back out with mine.
We are on day 4 of the AB's, so only tomorrow to do, then fingers crossed, I get permission to put him back out wednesday/thursday. Saying that, if his hole in his leg isn't healing by then, I think he'll be in for a bit longer.
Thankyou for all the followers of this thread. Think I've got some rugs arriving tomorrow for him - again with huge generous thanks to some HHO members.
BUT
Horse's leg has burst, the lump is there but going. A trickle of gunky pus is now running down his leg and he doesn't mind one poking it. (that is an improvement). However, the leg is still swollen and my offer of polticing it has gone to deaf ears. Whether or not the problem has been a thorn or something, I don't know, but there is currently a 50p sized hole where the lump was. The leg is still swollen, but the heat from it has all but gone. He is walking 100% sound, (still stiff mind). Can't say he is sound as have not (and don't plan to) trot him up.
He had hay and water (yay) but he also had an almost full bucket of feed. I genuinely think he 'doesn't want to know' hard feed, and I;m 99% positive he will eat when back out with mine.
We are on day 4 of the AB's, so only tomorrow to do, then fingers crossed, I get permission to put him back out wednesday/thursday. Saying that, if his hole in his leg isn't healing by then, I think he'll be in for a bit longer.
Thankyou for all the followers of this thread. Think I've got some rugs arriving tomorrow for him - again with huge generous thanks to some HHO members.
OFG
Well-Known Member
Have you read OPs thread from the start?
Owner of old horse is a family member and owns the land OP keeps her horses on. Owner has pretty much ignorned his horse and OP has been looking after it.
I wouldn't let any horse eat stale food and would have done exactly what OP has done, thrown it away. If owner kicks up would tell them why (which looks as if it has already been discussed between them both but owner sounds like a skin flint and won't spend money on horse).
OP can't just walk away and not all situations call for bringing in welfare organisations. Knee jerk reaction.
Owner is, like another HHO has pointed out, an ostrich and needs to take responsibility for his eldery horse.
OP - feel for you in this difficult and potentially akward situation. I hope it all works out OK. I too had some spare rugs which you would have been welcome to borrow but another couple of forum members got their offers in first.
Being the owner of an elderly neddie myself I know that it is difficult to know what to do for the best and definately not easy in your situaytion.
muff747
Well-Known Member
These are classic signs of DSLD Degeneration of Suspensory Ligament Desmitis. I can't believe your vet doesn't know about that. Unfortunately it is not curable and you can only keep them comfortable. Research in the USA found the degeneration is in all connective tissue all over the body but is more visible in the fetocks due to some of them dropping, so it is now called ESPA, Equine Systemic Protoglycan Accumulation.
Info here http://www.dsldequine.info/
More warmth will help to old boy. He does look a sweetie.
Does the owner see him every day or at all? Perhaps if he is faced with the sight of him, he may take more interest. I hope the meds work for him. Well done you for caring for him,
{{{{{hugs}}}} for you and him {{{{hugs}}}}