Gypsy Cob Society Passport Woes

Splish & Masons mum

Splish & Masons mum

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My Gypsy Cob Society Passport was never up to much (I wrote about it on here before!) It looks like it was made by a 5 year old (no offence to 5 year olds!) it has wonky, photocopied pages, still has Owners Name on front cover as Old owner, was a temporary passport, and when I returned it to them when he turned 5 to get a permanent one, I received the old one back with "temporary" crossed out and "permanent" written over the top, generally a very shoddy affair!
I kind of forgot about it really, but then I had a contact from someone else on here about the GCS failing to put hoses onto NED, and discovering my boy is not on there despite him having had his passport since 17/10/06 so it's spurred me on to do something about it.
However, when you look up the GCS contact details on the DEFRA website, the number given rings, diverts, then turns into a fax machine!
On closer inspection it now says that the GCS are no longer recognised and they are finalising arrangements for administration of Gypsy Cob Society passports.
How long has this been going on? are they no longer recognised because they were rubbish? is my passport still legal? was it ever legal as it states the old owner as the current owner? What do I do if I need to change the details on it? oooohhh, can I apply for a nice professional looking CHAPS passport instead?!
 
Oh b****r. Sent my new horse passport off to them 2 weeks ago - thing is I spoke to someone on the phone about how much the change would cost!
Have used Cuffey's link to email DEFRA
 
hairycob said:
Oh b****r. Sent my new horse passport off to them 2 weeks ago - thing is I spoke to someone on the phone about how much the change would cost!
Have used Cuffey's link to email DEFRA
Click to expand...

Wow! you managed to speak to somebody on the phone?! I used the number on their website, (which is equally useless) and took about 2 weeks of calling practically constantly before someone answered the phone!

I tried calling DEFRA yesterday, but there was nobody in the horse passport section and so I left a message with my name and number, and am waiting for them to call back (I'm not holding my breath and am aware I may have to call again;))
please keep me posted Hairycob on whether you get any info from DEFRA, will write back on here if/when I get a response. ps does your passport look as amateur as mine?
 
There were 2 phone nos on my passport - 1 in the West Midlands & one in Cumbria - I goy hold of the Midlands one & he told me £20 to amend address & add freezemark, send it to Cumbria. That was 3 weeks ago.
Yep totally amateur looking passport. No response from DEFRA today - I'm assuming it will be a couple of days at least & probably a chase.
 
Just looked on Companies House Webcheck

Gypsy Cob Soc UK Ltd with Hockley Heath Solihull address was dissolved 4/5/10

However
Name & Registered Office:
GYPSY COB SOCIETY (2010) LIMITED
CHYWOON STUD
CHURCH BROUGH
KIRKBY STEPHEN
CUMBRIA
CA17 4EJ
Company No. 07285025

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 15/06/2010

Chywoon Stud was the original address for Gypsy Cob passports so all may not be lost Hairycob.
 
Except Jason's passport was issued on 3/6 (he came from Ireland) which is between those 2 dates!
Anybody had any response from DEFRA? No response to my email last Friday.
 
glad it's not just me that has the shoddiest passport possible for Shy. After choosing them over others, I nearly cried when I got it back. :(

I'll be following this thread with great interest. I am thinking of getting a new changed decent passport with someone else tbh and pay for the change. sm x
 
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Im just about to buy a pony with a GCS passport so have had a lot of contact with DEFRA and co in the last few days.

Initially (despite website saying they were going to confirm who would admin the PPs), DEFRA told me this wasnt the case and I had to just approach another PIO to get them to take it over. This was on DEFRA helpline not the specific passport section. So if you can, try and get put through to the PP section as the DEFRA helpline are clearly not all clued up.

The PIO I approached seemed to think they could only admin PPs with their range of numbers, but of course I couldnt have a new number cos that would be 2 PPs and also would trigger possible requirement for microchipping cos of the rules from 2009.

The seller then spoke to GCS, who told her they could still register transfer of owner if we sent £25. After speaking to DEFRA, they are now investigating that, and say GCS are absolutely NOT allowed to do this or to have anything to do with the PPs!.....maybe they are confused :-)

DEFRA say (I have managed to speak to the passport helpline a couple of times so I must be lucky) that they WILL be confirming shortly (tho they wouldnt be drawn on what shortly meant), a or a number of new PIOs to administer the PPs. (one wonders how keen they will be given they know that a number are not exactly of a high/accurate standard)

I have asked them to confirm (tho nothing back yet...) that if I go ahead and buy the pony they will only impose the 30 day rule for notifying change of owner at the point at which they actually confirm who this can be done with.

TBH all this would have put me off buying the pony if it wasnt for the fact her PP is on NED from what I could see, and that the seller says it is actually a decent one in terms of description, photo etc.

The GCS passports are still legal as they were issued by a (at the time) valid PIO, but how the updates not done or the details not accurate get to be resolved Im not sure. TBH if you have one of those I would just make sure you have something that shows you have requested the corrections to be made and the details uploaded to NED(either to GCS or now DEFRA) and keep a print of the email/letter. The only complete black hole at the mo is the fact there is noone to register change of ownership with, within the 30 day limit. Thats not a worry re proof of ownership, as the PP isnt proof of that anyway, but its a concern re being pursued for breaking DEFRAs rules when they havent provided any way you can meet the rules.
 
I've got a pony with one of these now, the old owners name has been scribbled out in black marker pen! They are an absoloute joke, as is the whole passport situation, personally I think we need ONE passport issuing authority and be done with it. It's perfectly possible to get horses multiple passports even if they are microchipped, as the details are never checked by anyone. So a stolen horse can remain stolen very easily, and get a whole new set of paperwork. We also need ONE microchipping authority as again no one knows who they are reg. with. I am tempted to get someone like watchdog involved and see just how many passports we could get for one horse without anyone asking, as I think it would be quite a few!
 
Please would those of you having problems flag it up with your local Trading Standards

As mentioned above to get a second passport is illegal and not update with new owner details within 30 days is illegal.

I will flag up with TS AHOs I know
 
Officially the UK Gypsy Cob Society has been closed down by the government, as we found out.

So far all we know is that the government has stopped their trading as of 2nd sept 2010.

This is a real turn of events, as the governing body has NEVER closed a passport agency down before here in the UK.
I have no answers or reasons as to why this happened, but it's surely not good that it has happened,as it has never been done!

It has caused an up roar both from talk and posts on here, as the breed no longer can have passports issued under that society as from that date.

So if any are issued they will not be valid now.

Many of us have GCS passports, me included as Hairy is with them, according to the governing body, all gypsy cobs will now have to gain passports under a general passport agency, and to date not one will verify parentage or give any breeding on passports, it just has the horses name and that is it, which is absolutely usless to a lot of breeders and producers.

The GCS has only ever been a passport issuing office and not a general show/breed society, but it sure will cause problems for many.

Yet another sodding problem faced with the breed.

Rant over. Vet here now also. Aaaaargh.
 
One of the Fjord socs (in Scotland) was stopped from issuing PPs I believe in May 2008, and one of two other small ones, but this is the biggest by far to date. Just wish they would line up someone to take over first, it was OK with the Fjords as there werent many PPs and the society took over
 
The Gypsy Cob needs its own worldwide breed passports with Studbook, dna database, verified parentage etc etc. the only people with any of this in place already is the Traditional Gypsy Cob Association.
We don't need the cobs stuck in the with the 'general' passport issuing agencies.
Defra need to either, re-instate GCS, with provisions for added administration, or get TGCA to do it pretty quick !! already 6 weeks plus without passports, plus outstanding ones, and this years foals needing to be passported by the end of the year, what a mess !!
L
 
This is the specific guidance relating to pasports issued by a PIO that has had its recognition withdrawn :


Owners with passports issued by a Passport Issuing Organisation that has had its recognition withdrawn for any reason will have to apply for a new passport from another Passport Issuing Organisation within 3 months of the date recognition was withdrawn. The old passport will remain valid following this application until such time as the new passport is received by the owner.


This has happened so rarely that no-one really really knows how to deal with it. When the Scottish Fjord Society had its recognition withdrawn the Fjord Horse National Studbook was lined up to issue new passports. I'm pretty sure they issued new passports but may be wrong, and if they did I don't know what they did with UELNs etc.

The big problem in this case is that there is no alternative recognised breed society for Gypsy Cobs. That being the case I am curious to see how this is handled by DEFRA as there would appear to be a danger that the breed records will be lost and it will no longer be possible to register a horse as a Gypsy Cob.

As an aside, it sounds from some of the comments on here that the passports may not have met legal requirements in the first place.
 
www.tgca.co.uk

this is an offical Association that has been in place 3 years, they have everything set up apart from passport issuing, which I hope they will be allowed to do now there is no one else doing it atm.

Anyone with strong views and gypsy cob lovers, could help a lot by e-mailing defra on the e-mail addy at the beginning of the thread and asking if TGCA can take over, so we don't lose the breed status, records will be lost and no more registered gypsy cobs !! Apart from the hundreds of weanlings waiting to be pasported by the end of the year that cannot be sold moved or anything until they get the proper passport !!

L
 
eriskaypony said:
This is the specific guidance relating to pasports issued by a PIO that has had its recognition withdrawn :

Owners with passports issued by a Passport Issuing Organisation that has had its recognition withdrawn for any reason will have to apply for a new passport from another Passport Issuing Organisation within 3 months of the date recognition was withdrawn. The old passport will remain valid following this application until such time as the new passport is received by the owner.
Click to expand...

Above quote but what is the source of the quote.

Whats stated above is what DEFRA initially told me.... and then retracted it and said they are definitely going to nominate a specific new PIO and that I could NOT go and get a new PP from another PIO!!

Also if you do get a new one then you might fall into the 'compulsory microchipping' bucket as the PIO I spoke to said any new PP they issue would have to have microchip number before they could issue it.

Since DEFRA are currently stating on their website that they WILL be making arrangements for these PPs to be taken over, and the passport officer confirmed that to me and that we should wait for this to happen, I'm going to wait for them to do that. After all, they cannot state that on the website and then pursue people for adhering to it.
 
I understand from someone who spoke to them today, GCS have been allowed to nominate another PIO !!! it won't be a gypsy cob specific one as there isn't one at the moment.
L
 
I finally managed to get to speak to someone at DEFRA this afternoon.

Basically the advice is if you have a passport that needs amending wait for the announcement - no idea when that will be. The DERA man said there would be plenty of publicity when the arrangements are finalised though tbh a bit when the authority was withdrawn would have been appropriate.

If you are like me & have sent a passport to be amended since the end of August contact Cumbria Trading Standards.
 
There are 2 different problems here

1. Which organisation is going to take over the Gypsy Cob Passports--DEFRA decision

2. People who have tried and failed to update their passport or have found that their details are either not on NED or are incorrect or feel their passport is of poor quality ie looks homemade rather than an official document

Trading Standards are responsible for enforcing horse passport legislation so anything other than 1. falls under their remit.

If anyone else would like the contact name in Cumbria TS who is prepared to take this further please PM me
 
Nothing to add except to say I'm sorry you're having all this trouble. Such a shame if you look forward to receiving a proper passport only to find it's a load of tatty rubbish and literally not worth the paper it's scribbled on. Another totally *&*&*& mess from DEFRA who should have needed to see the quality and detail on the passports and what procedures were carried out on change of ownership and so on before they ever gave a PIO a licence; they should also carry out random checks to see that standards were kept up, it's not rocket science after all.
Having seen quite a few non breed passports, the only ones I would consider using for unknown (where breeding isn't known or un needed) animals are either the BHS or the Weatherbys ID ones, the others are very poor quality with pretty lax office work in place too.

Hope you get a happy ending to your troubles.
 
hi,i bought a foal 2 months ago who is passported with the gypsy cob society. for 2 months i have been trying to phone them to change name and ownership,but as you'd guess-no answer!
this is the first horse ive bought since passports came into force.so my worry is is it even valid??

Since ive had her shes had her two tetenus which have been wrote down in passport by vet.im worried that i wont get it bk if i send it anywhere.

ive rang DEFRA also but there was no one in the passport office at time n got answer phone.
im just worried that if she strayed her microchip is gonna link her to her old owner a few miles from me.
 
For anyone sending off a passport to anyone, it really does pay for peace of mind to have it photocopied before it leaves your hands (by that, I mean each page which refers to your horse, so name page, sketch, ownership page, vaccinations page and so on, no need to do the standard bumph that is printed by the passport makers). Also helps if you date and initial each page before you copy it too, that way they can't dispute things aren't as you said.
 
I managed to contact them today & they are finally admitting on the phone that they are not allowed to issue or amend passports and that they are holding on to any passports & cheques sent in until they can pass them on to who ever takes over. I have asked for mine to be returned to me & I asked them to post it tomorrow (this was gone 5) as I have the Vet coming out for 2nd jab this week. I have checked with my bank & my cheque has not cleared so I have put a stop on it.
The whole business is a mess. DEFRA should have publicised the withdrawal of authority when it happened & there should be a back up process so that ther isn't such a hiatus.
They have over 7000 passports registered on NED & no one has any idea how many that have not been recorded (mine included).
If anyone has a passport not recorded on NED or any other issues can you contact Cumbria Trading Standards as they are trying to get a picture but so far have few formal complaints.
THE PIO they said would be taking over was interesting to say the least.
 
It seems that there are a number of passport issuing organisations that are not abiding by DEFRA regulations and are not updating NEDS with passport details. I have the same issue with BAPSH and funnily enough after I put something on this forum a few months ago, got a response on the forum from them!! (interesting that they can find time to read through this but not answer emails sent direct to them). Anyway after them telling me that they were working with BAPSH directly (seems they had visited the woman who does the passports) nothing has happened and my horse still doesn't appear on NED (at least another 4 months of waiting now). I emailed DEFRA who transferred me through to their passport section and the last I heard was that there were a number of agencies who were "under investigation". the thing is that whilst this is going on people are still sending their passports to be updated, their money is being taken but the organisations are still not complying with DEFRA's rules. All very frustrating!!
 
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