Gypsy Cob Society Passport Woes

As much as I would love to slink off with a flea in my ear, I was running around at Appleby Fair buck naked, swimming in the river before most of you had probably been born, so I am afraid my opinion is born out of observation not ignorance. My father and grandfather both worked 'proper cobs' and FWIW my sister has spent 3 years trying to find a cob worthy of pulling their bowtop (the last one they had incidentally was Bay!).
Please do not assume that I have no knowledge of cobs, I have plenty, I merely choose a different style of transport :-)
 
ok firstly refresh the page Binky has reduced them then you can wait around for the replies. The point of this post was regarding a passport issuing authority. If all of this was based on knowledge and not complete hearsay and rubbish it could be justified. For example you both mention colour repeatedly.. Why? The gypsy cob can be of any colour be that bay black, roan etc.

What gives you the right to say what is and what isn't a breed. The modern warmblood breeds are made up of 3 or more differing breeds with your thinking all the horses would still be Merychippus!!!!
 
But it is no more a 'breed' than the ISH (Irish sport horse) which TBF covers just about every kind of beast you ever saw bred! A breed is a breed and a type is a type! The colour clarification was for the benefit of the posters who also class 'gypsy cobs' as needing to be broken coloured.
Must go and muck out my 100th generation Arabs now, so I will catch up later ;-)
 
The last photo is my Stinky, aka Quite by Chance. His dad is Chance du Valleon, the stallion above the black Tonka. I have Stinky's parentage going back four generations.

A good gypsy cob is easy to spot, and are by no means "fodder". My lad is now six and proving to be a superb all rounder, fantastic temperament, safe, fun and when he has a rider on that wants it forwarding going.

If you take the time to find out, you will see that the gypsy cob has been bred for over a hundred years, many of them carefully line bred to achieve the true gypsy cob. The gypsy breeders take a huge pride in their stock, can tell you breeding going back generations and now there is the DNA proof to back it up. The scrub animals you see with some so called gypsy breeders bear little relation to the gypsy cob apart from being coloured.

Prejudice against the breed is coming round as more and more people are realising what fantastic horses and ponies they are, and with their great nature and ability to be the true master jack of all trades are becoming increasingly sort after.

The top stallions sell at 5 or 6 figure sums and the gypsy cob is exported round the world and are in high demand.
 
Baggybreeches said:
As much as I would love to slink off with a flea in my ear, I was running around at Appleby Fair buck naked, swimming in the river before most of you had probably been born, so I am afraid my opinion is born out of observation not ignorance. My father and grandfather both worked 'proper cobs' and FWIW my sister has spent 3 years trying to find a cob worthy of pulling their bowtop (the last one they had incidentally was Bay!).
Please do not assume that I have no knowledge of cobs, I have plenty, I merely choose a different style of transport :-)
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Oh please as for assumptions my modes of transport over the last three years has included the 2003 heavyweight hunter of the year, RIHS hunter champion (ex Rob Olivers Horse), a dublin and balmoral lightweight hunter champion so please do not patronise me.

My opinion is also born out of experience and I would say I have never met a group of more dedicated breeders and enthusiasts who live for their horses.
 
I just thought I would put my opinion on here, people have been shouting for a number of years what a total crap organization the gypsy cob society passport office was. I am surprised anybody ever bothered to have one of their toytown passports, I know of several people who have them and they are usually wrong in descriptions of the registered horses.
And as for the cobs that cannot trace their ancestry I have such an animal, she is not bothered at all that she cannot prove that her greatgrandad pulled a bowtop at appleby. ;)
 
Baggybreeches said:
As much as I would love to slink off with a flea in my ear, I was running around at Appleby Fair buck naked, swimming in the river before most of you had probably been born, so I am afraid my opinion is born out of observation not ignorance. My father and grandfather both worked 'proper cobs' and FWIW my sister has spent 3 years trying to find a cob worthy of pulling their bowtop (the last one they had incidentally was Bay!).
Please do not assume that I have no knowledge of cobs, I have plenty, I merely choose a different style of transport :-)
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Apologies then. But I still fully stick to what I put, re, perception on the breed. I'm not trying to convert anyone, far from it. However the constant belittling opinions on the breed absolutely do me in. I fully understand each to their own and everyone is entitled to their own preference for type and workload in whichever equestrian sphere, BUT, what gives anyone the right to question them being a breed or not and seeing them as 'commoners' and insuperior to other horses? Absolutely nothing. I dislike some breeds, but I would not dream of wading into, per say an arab or welsh specific post and air my views on all that is foul with the breed, just because of my personal opinion and dislike on them. [For the record, I do own a welsh and also have a TB and a gypsy cob myself. A lovely strange assortment to be seen together.]
A horse is a horse.

As for the pics M, I'm sorry if the size offends you. Maybe they might stand out a bit more to make a point that way. They're not there to be liked or disliked. They're there for examples of breed, both current and previous. They are just some of the elite stallions of the breed with the parentage, true to type conformation and everything else which that entails. Fact. Couldn't give a rats arse if they're not to everyone's cups of tea, that's not my point as per what was said above.
 
lol at Snoopy...... :) I would just like to add that it is not the case of whether you like trads or not they deserve the protection and showcasing of their own breed society the the TGCA provide them. Everyone has their own "type" of horse but I would not deny one it's place in the sun..... As you have pointed out there are issues relating some of the horses out there surely with it's own breed society new owners would turn to the society for education on the breed and where to source the animals so could only be a good thing for the cobs.
 
RJ- All breeds start somewhere (good luck), but as we all know the Arabian stud books were first issued to Adam and Eve ;). As I have said I have know idea where my coloured cob came from but she does neigh with an irish twang. :)
 
ok so i have just registered on here so have never responded to anything before but feel i must say something now!

I have several friends that compete at very high standards and also breed their own horses, now i was shocked to learn one of them has a ISH mare she had a foal from this year which is out of a Hanovarian from Germany can be registered as a full breed Hanov which i find actually quite disgusting becasue these WB can be crossed with absolutely anything with upto a limit of 70% the other breed and still be registered full????

How does that work so in 50 years time with this continous breeding and registering the hanovarian of today will be nothing like that of its future progeny?? and i am also aware this is not the only breed registration that has this policy!

I own a solid coloured Trad and he has been passed from home to home he is 5 and has had 10 homes he was given to me as the last owner was scared of him as she was one of these owners with little or no knowledge and these breeds are very intelligent and he had learnt exactly how to intimidate her

However with in the first day we established our partnership and he is a perfect boy he looks after my 2 yo daughter he follows her round the field and protects her from the bigger horses she can pull his tail and his feather and his moustache which is forming perfectly now and he just loves it he is the leader of my heard of 5 he was as soon as he entered the field and all of the horses look up to him!

i'm sorry i digress badly but i guess my point is that how can people criticise them becoming a breed when there all many breed books out there that can not be true!!

now i know this is not the point but i am not a fan of trads in particular however i do own 3 coloureds purely by accident i have to say because i care not what a breed is or their colour i am after the most athletic, bravest, calmest, gentlest and most intelligent horses and am lucky enough that all of them are stunning looking also.! Since owning my trad. man i am a big fan of them if he is anything to go by as he is stunning just beautiful so much fun and so clever i will not part with him now no way!

now i hope to show him at some of the TGCA shows next year as being a kinda roany bay but not enough he is not classed as coloured meaning i can not show him in anything!!

i have also a couple of friends that own some well bred very expesive horses one is a AQh and another is a Knabstruper and they both have been very unhealthy from a very young age the AQH has just been diagnosed with DJD at 4!! the vet thinks that it is due too much breeding with in a small group as obviously AQH are not as common over here they don't really get the fresh DNA in much resulting in poor genes i think i have witnessed this in a couple of cases now and after having a conversation with my vet at the last boosters for the guys he said that apart from accidents he hardly ever treats coloureds or trads apart from pure breeds or rare breeds the crosses are always so much more healthier!! i found that very interesting and i have to say that as i think of it apart from silly little accidents up till now i have not had any major vets bills!! so i think there are many reasons why these horses should be classed as a breed they are fabulous and that is part of the reasons novices own them!!
 
hairycob said:
Lippizaner Society - I can see my rather common (but fab temprement!) pony getting ideas above his station if that goes ahead! Do hairy ponies do airs above the ground?
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You joke. I just landed on my arse from one f said cobbies doing his rather best impression of a capriole over a ditch out hacking..... ;) They're converting already!!! lol.
 
I think the work the TGCA have done so far in promoting the Traditional Gypsy Cob as a breed is fantastic, it's about time this breed had the official recognition it deserves. :D

As others have mentioned true TGC's are now DNA tested/graded and are potentially worth 6 figure amounts, I fail to see how this is different from any other breed.

I've been a huge fan of these horses for years and they are hugely different from the badly put together piebald cobs that you see everywhere.

Other than colour I fail to see any similarity between the Traditional Gypsy Cob and the coloured horse of cob type below.

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Well mine is a "coloured horse of cob type", not the prettiest markings &, as he's a gelding, his breeding is pretty irrelevent but at 4, on only his 2nd hack out with me, he lead a napping 13 yo tbx out of the yard and that is what I bought him for - a solid, dependable type that a "more mature" lady can hack out on into her dotage but with enough about him to be fun & maybe the odd small hunter trial/local SJ or possibly TREC.
Frankly I just want his passport sorted.
But having said that I do love proper gypsy cobs & I hope the TGCA are successful in promoting them whether they are a breed or a type
 
Firstly I will say I am not a Gypsy but I have owned gypsy bred cobs for over 20 years, I am very passionate about this type of horse/pony, proper gypsy horsemen and families have bred from specific lines for years and the cobs are superb, the main problem is that many people breed these not to the traditional standard (rounder body, apple bum, short body, small ears etc, if you have seen one you would know the difference) they also cross traditionals with other cobs, I am so fed up with ignorant people who call any cob with a bit of hair a gypsy cob...NO... also for all the numptys who comments on coloured cobs, not all gypsy cobs are coloured some of the best are solid colour, before anyone makes a comment please read up on the true gypsy cobs there are plenty of web sites travelers times etc its as if people dish gypsys by calling any part bred hairy coloured animal a gypsy!! ? go figure...All the time I am writing this I can hear some total and utter snob that spoke with me a few days past who quite clearly was very prejudiced to Gypsys and this is where the main problem lies so get your head out of your arses and educate yourselves before making comment. Not all gypsys are bad, not all black people are thugs, not all chinese people work in restaurants not all Lithuanian people are hard workers...get my point!!!! The job for the TGCA is to separate the cobs from the gypsy cobs and to recognize the true line bred traditional that will go as a founder breed, the problem lies now with the tiny bred ponys who have now had welsh sec A etc put into the lines to get the size, I think the person who started the TGA very brave as its a minefield out there, In my personal opinion and experience I think the gypsy cob term should have been dropped with many a horse and they should have been called traditional or feathered cob as there are many out there that do not conform to the ORIGINAL gypsy standard, many cobs are bred by gypsys or from gypsy cobs but are not true to type I know people say that in any breed there are good and bad but there is a difference between a cob and a Traditional gypsy cob.
 
Tabithakat64 Wow great two pictures you have just visually explained what my rambling A4 reply tried to say..well done for showing the difference between a Proper Gypsy cob and a feathered cob.
 
if you type horse passports and look through the list you can find the society and the address of the man in the west midlands think his name is craig
 
I would just like to say the so called coloured cobs that are not classed as Gypsy cobs are usually sold by the travelling community as full breds by their (grandads grannies original bowtop pulling famous stallions blood lines), so having a proper stud book in the future would be a great idea. Also most of what the travelling community are dealing in now are these tiny mini cobs, which seemed to come into fashion over recent years, so obviously they are being bred down smaller with what looks like to me section C,s. How many generations will the gypsy cob need to have to be recognised as a full bred, when the very people breeding them are changing the type in very recent years. Or as there always been a standard type and a mini type, has I have only recently over the last 10 years or so known of this fashion for the mini gypsy cob.
 
daft said:
if you type horse passports and look through the list you can find the society and the address of the man in the west midlands think his name is craig
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if you read the thread you will find the Society is dissolved and DEFRA state they have ceased trading and to contact them about GCS passports
 
Has anybody actually managed to get a passport returned yet? Despite being promised that they would post mine on Saturday there is no sign of it.
I spoke to Cumbria TS today & they are asking for people who are having issues to contact them directly. If you contact you local TS the complaints get spread about all over the place & it is harder for them to take action. Cuffey gave me the email address of the person who is dealing with this so feel free to pm me if you need it.
 
Please, please, please anyone currently undergoing problems with the GCS problem now, get yourselves membered up with the TGCA asap (I think they'll pretty busy soon!) the more support they have the more chance they can get PIO status - it's all about numbers, DEFRA can't ignore all of us - surely?!?
I am really passionate about this - please support our breed.
 
I've been tied up all day so haven't been able to check but I guess from the last post it's not been released yet. Maybe there has been a last minute hiccup. Suffice it to say it would have been good news for those of us who have bought horses & just want to get the blasted pasports updated but not those with weanlings that need a passport for & want breeding recorded.
 
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