Halling ex-racehorse - finally, a how much?

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kit279

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Well, it only took about 2 years of nagging but I have finally been offered the option to buy the little Halling ex-racehorse. In truth, it couldn't be a worse time for me as currently in the process of moving jobs and houses to Oxford and a lot of uncertainty about where the horses and myself are going to live! None-the-less, I have always wanted to buy this horse as I've always thought he was something special so I will have to have a good think about it.

So Halling is as follows:-

Now rising 6 years old
TB, by Halling
Really smart mover and cracking jump
Good temperament, safe and willing, however, also can be tricky - gelded late and opinionated, somedays will jump the moon and loves it, other days will not entertain it at all.
Had an accident on the gallops as a 2 year old where another horse struck a hind tendon, it was repaired and no soundness issues however sort of unattractive hind tendon as a result

This is the boy:-

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And a video of him:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDB4tlYbMzU

What would you pay for him?
 
My mum paid £1,800 for her Halling horse. Like yours, fantastic looking, incredible mover, scopey jump again some days fly round the fences other days would need persuading ;). He was a gent to handle and ride, he also had a slight bowed tendon. He was 8 when we got him so a bit older than your boy and had done chasing and pointing and he had been a very good horse jumping round the foxhunter chase at aintree..
My mum got him and he was a fab dressage horse and show horse, placed BD every time out, county ror showing ect, had a bit of fun XC schooling and showjumping so he was worth every penny and looked like a 10k horse if you didn't know his background..
Maybe that will help you decide :).
 
how tricky is tricky, ie what does he do and how often and how brave do you have to be to persuade him otherwise?????

the fact he's hunted, XC etc will add a lot to an otherwise minimal value as an ex racer, but if he stands up or naps himself to a standstill with any frequency, they cancel each other out IMO. So i guess its a case of how much his current owners percieve he could be worth on the open market. I assume no comp record? 1 query over a leg.....bit of a dubious attitude......under £1k i think, as he doesnt sound like a nervous novice sort of horse, and anyone with the balls to want him, will realise he's not competed and will query the leg.

but then, if you love him, and you dont want to offend his owners, and you can afford it, he's worth what you are willign to pay to secure him.

i LOVE him, and you know if didnt have CS, or i had the time and £ for 2 id have begged to buy him :)
 
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He's tricky in that sometimes he will jump like an absolute stag and loves it and then other days, he will not entertain going over a crosspole. Once he is in the 'won't' mentality, there's pretty much nothing you can do to get him out of it. However, he doesn't buck or rear or do anything dangerous - he is more of a 'I don't want to do that today and you cannot make me'. It's not a question of brave - for him or the rider, he is just bloody minded some days, was like that racing as well, some days they thought they had a Group 1 winner on their hands, other days he would just tell them to get stuffed and not entertain going up the gallops..
 
Im assuming he has not competed at all? Looks great and scopey.. Is he still on the racing yard?

I would pay £2500 in a heart beat for him but with just a few BE points could be £6000 up really... get him quick before anyone else see's him!!

Lucky lady!
 
kit279 said:
He's tricky in that sometimes he will jump like an absolute stag and loves it and then other days, he will not entertain going over a crosspole. Once he is in the 'won't' mentality, there's pretty much nothing you can do to get him out of it. However, he doesn't buck or rear or do anything dangerous - he is more of a 'I don't want to do that today and you cannot make me'. It's not a question of brave - for him or the rider, he is just bloody minded some days, was like that racing as well, some days they thought they had a Group 1 winner on their hands, other days he would just tell them to get stuffed and not entertain going up the gallops..
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Hopefully if he were yours and in a routine - this napping fits would stop as he became happier with his lifestyle, training and work load

Good luck
 
The thing is, you want to buy, not sell. ;) And all the work on his ridden career has been put in and paid for by you. So technically he's not worth anymore than the day you took him on as his owners have not invested a dime.

From the other side, if his owners came to me and asked my opinion,.they would likely not like what I had to say. The 'sometimes won't jump' business would be a huge issue for me, from a selling point of view. There is no shortage of ex racers that aren't complicated. You would be looking for a market of riders essentially like PS, confident to take a punt, competent enough to ride him if he has a tricky moment,.and/or not bothered about the jumping.
 
He isn't worth a lot on the open market. He has no competition record and a recorded injury so I would be thinking around the £500 or so mark which is pretty much what he would make at Ascot.

However you love him and want him. I would contact someone like the racehorse rehabilitation to ask them for a suggested price, maybe contact Brightwells to see if you could have access to the prices of their last sale. I was there in November hence where I get my pricing from. If you gather information on pricing from a disinterested 3rd party that should give you more validity when making an offer to the owners.

As a guideline, at Ascot, a nice but clearly been in a field with broken feet 3 year only made £400, my friend bought a 3 year straight out of racing that she knew, very well put together, no marks and known to be good tempered and straight moving. She paid £800 and there was a lot of interest in him for RoR as he is flashy. Good luck and I very much hope to see the post of "I've got him!" on here.
 
hmm, i stand my original offer of under £1k if you were selling.....

potential query over leg
unreliable jumping (does he ever say "no" to hacking too? thats a major black mark on his value)
no comp record.

TBH if i was buying, and didnt know the horse, but it was known to have a bit of a quirk, id really be looking more in the £500-£800 bracket.

but as you are, like TS says, buying, and wanting to secure the deal swifly. i think id offer them £1000 on the nose and see what they say (and id big up the quirk and the leg issues lol!)
 
tbh, which I can totally see why you love him to bits etc, imho he isn't worth a lot (which is better for you as the buyer, obv). The tendon would worry me if you were ever expecting serious work out of him. I'd want to see a scan of it at least if I were considering buying... if it doesn't worry you, great, but it's something the seller should know will affect the price.
The emphatic and random "I won't play today" over poles is a HUGE deal-breaker for most people. So frustrating. So, I agree with TS about the 'target market' for him if you don't get him...
Of course his lineage is worth diddly now he's an ex-racer and gelded, so it doesn't matter at all what he was worth as a yearling etc etc. All that matters now is his track record since leaving racing, and, however promising, he's not straightforward so I think that limits his value quite significantly... which is good for you if the seller sees the sense of it.
Good luck with everything.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
hmm, i stand my original offer of under £1k if you were selling.....

potential query over leg
unreliable jumping (does he ever say "no" to hacking too? thats a major black mark on his value)
no comp record.

TBH if i was buying, and didnt know the horse, but it was known to have a bit of a quirk, id really be looking more in the £500-£800 bracket.

but as you are, like TS says, buying, and wanting to secure the deal swifly. i think id offer them £1000 on the nose and see what they say (and id big up the quirk and the leg issues lol!)
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Prince33Sp4rkle said:
i LOVE him, and you know if didnt have CS, or i had the time and £ for 2 id have begged to buy him :)
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All of the above.

Love Halling, if I didn't have Fig/could financially and time wise afford 2, I'd have him in a heartbeat.
 
Remember he's worth what he is worth the day you picked him up. They should not be charging you for the work you have put in. otherwise send them a livery bill for the last 2 years!

If he hadn't done anthing after racing when you had him, he is only worth dog meat money to the owners! He is obviously worth a lot more to you as a competition prospect, but as a unsucessful racer the day you picked him up with a dodgy leg he would be worth about £500.

Agree with PS, prob need to offer more to seal the deal with the owners.

I have one that was sound, injury freet throughout racing and had done some basic rehab, turnout, flatwork, hacking etc. and cost less than every number on this thread. He's done BE80 & BE90, BD & BS SJ now!

I hope you get to keep him! I guess you have to pay what the owners want because your emotionally attached to him now!
 
Actually if he went to the sales he'd prob have a fair bit of interest from the NH/ point to pointers. He's a strong looking , rangey type& would obviously trot up well. In my experience a horse like this my well attract a good few bidders . Have seen similar looking types with insignificant NH breeding get up to £10k.
 
ETA- although obviously his owner won't think that! But you saw this happening at Doncaster with phoebe.

I would ask owner what he wants and offer him half
 
seabsicuit2 said:
Actually if he went to the sales he'd prob have a fair bit of interest from the NH/ point to pointers. He's a strong looking , rangey type& would obviously trot up well. In my experience a horse like this my well attract a good few bidders . Have seen similar looking types with insignificant NH breeding get up to £10k.
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It's interesting you should say this as our Halling horse after he finished his 'proper' racing career was sold as a pointer for 5k aged 7.

If you were to buy a similar one from the charities like North Farm Stud (HEROS) he would be between 1.5k and 2k. Sometimes they have them up for double that but I don't know if they ever get the higher prices. They have had reschooling and I don't think OP should be paying for her own work.

Then there are other nice ex-racehorses given away for nothing.

It is a tough one.
 
seabsicuit2 said:
Actually if he went to the sales he'd prob have a fair bit of interest from the NH/ point to pointers. He's a strong looking , rangey type& would obviously trot up well. In my experience a horse like this my well attract a good few bidders . Have seen similar looking types with insignificant NH breeding get up to £10k.
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not with a duff leg and a duff attitude though?!
 
See £5k for a older untried horse is good money if he was 5 or 6 it would have been double that easily .
Pt2pt/ NH people do pay good money for all decent looking athletic horses that are untried over jumps
 
not arguing, am genuinely interested............he has been tried? not NH fences but xc and sj, and found lacking in the genuine/consistent dept...surely that would put them off?

stand to be corrected but will be very very suprised if he did sell for that (and sad for kit, who has done such a fab job with him)
 
Ps - leg is just cosmetic, vet would prob scan it clear . Every trainer thinks they can change a horses attitude

Anyway despite this I hope that the owner sees sense and does the best thing for the horse, am just saying dont be surprised if he throws a high figure out
 
I think what he would fetch in the open market as a horse that could race, which he could and would albeit with no guarantee of success, is different to selling to a private riding buyer. The owner would like £2.5k for him and a year ago I would have paid him that. But I doubt the horse is going to be consistent enough jumping for me so it would be for dressage and showing with questions about whether he will event. The horse is really safe to hack, doesn't nap or do anything naughty, he is wilful but not a bad horse at all.
 
In addition, the leg has the all clear as far as soundness is concerned. He's no longer a flat prospect but would do NH or P2P. He's quirky but I've always thought he would be a proper horse given time.
 
agree with others £800 to £1200 as he had tendon injury and has his tricky days. however he is prob worth more to you as you have been wanting him for so long . i followed your earlier thread and really hope you get him....
 
gosh thats a lot for what he is on paper.

it depends on finance i think, if i had £2k to burn and no CS id happily pay that for him as i do agree that he will be super given time and consistant handling/work with the right person/people. I dont think he's worth it (on paper), but id happily pay it(from the heart) to secure him so its really the old chestnut of a horse being worth what you are willing to pay, sorry im no help am i!

id move heaven and earth to secure him, you like him, he likes you, and selfishly i want to be able to watch his progress!!!! he's my fave HHO horse :)
 
The owner may want 2.5K for him and assuming leg scans ok he is prob worth it. He is good looking, a gelding, and a good mover. The attitude wouldn't bother me....if we were looking to buy him for NH as a change of scene, schooling over fences, different training system can see a change in attitude. The big factor is that YOU are a good bit of the reason why I would go to that money for him. YOU have educated, allowed him grow up a bit, built him up etc so you then need to put a value on your input to the horse and decide is that significant enough to bother haggling with owners (I think it is)....or if he is not going to be consistent enough then do you put a value on your input, a value on what he was when you got him, put him on the market and split the difference after you and owners have got your own "inputs" back.
 
Gosh why are there so many horses priced in HH classifieds in multiple thousands for nice ordinary riding horses, yet on here no one pays over £1 k?!
Apologies I've not been following so don't know the background.However, unless you have an existing agreement, the fact u have brought the horse on is a negotiating point and nothing more. The seller can ask for his current value, as they would with any other potential buyer. Doesn't matter what he WAS worth when u took him on unless the owners are feeling generous.
Really depends on their reasons for sale now? Need the money? Confident you will be good home? Lost their attachment to him? Want to maximise profit? You know them best, good luck with your negotiating. If you love him, can afford final price and want to keep him then he will be good value whatever. Buying a horse is part heart and part head! Doesn't matter if you over pay if you get what you really want in the end.
Btw I was there the day his sire won the International at York - handsome impressive horse! Your boy has his looks.
 
nice ordinary riding horses that havent already failed at one career, with a question mark over a leg and their attitude ;)

ex racer prices reflect the risk you take when taking on the above, they are 10 a penny even for nice ones, and there are plenty of others around with a nice head and a few quirks.....

i personally love this horse and would have him in a heartbeat as per above, but your nervous nellie proof irish or WB cross, that can w/t/c round a school sedately for 65% prelim week in week out, plod down the road alone or in a group and has hunted or been xc and sj and wont drop you on your head if you miss them repeatedly, is a TOTALLY different kettle of fish and having proven its self as safe sane and moderately talented at getting a novice rider from A to B comfortably, does, and should, command a much higher price.

I dont think you could say Halling fits that bill (yet) and again, has a ? over a leg and attitude (minor in my eyes, and in a lot of other peoples but on the open market, more of an issue)
 
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