Hartpury Horse Trials Horse Hit By a Car

[oldvic]

I think they did it last year but I can't really remember. I have no idea why they changed but I guess it is cheaper and easier to get the manpower for 1 day. The extra vets, medics, radios, technical staff, etc all cost. Also the riders that are just in the 3* are able to be there for a day less. They needed 3.5 hrs to show jump so would be pushed to get through on Sunday a.m. before the 1* and 2* jumping and both their dressage days were fairly full.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Great shame for both horse rider and the person driving the car. Im sure all involved were shocked and so glad that horse and rider walked away.

However the mother shouldnt have hit the driver, had that been me she would have been on her @rse on the grass quicker than she could say ouch in self defence. Enquiry should be held as to how a car managed to get onto the course at that time and measure put in place to stop it happening again.

Hope the two early fallers are ok.

 

[TarrSteps]

This whole incident does point of the double edged sword of social media, too. While it means word gets out about these incidents and makes it easier to take a good hard look at the hows and whys, it also means information gets disseminated to quickly there is no time to fact check. I did originally hear TR's mother hit the driver and then heard that she's shoved her as part of a heated conversation. I don't know which story, if either, is true and neither does anyone else unless there were standing there and saw the whole thing. To speculate on how people should or should not have behaved and judge them accordingly when we're not even sure what exactly happened seems a bit unfair.

It also points up the problem that maybe heroic efforts to maximise numbers, keep costs down and deal with the problem of lack of volunteers can have real repercussions. Everyone wants events to be cheap, provide lots of opportunities to compete, run in the minimum amount of time, and not necessitate any inconvenience to themselves. But something always gives when you pack 'em in too hard and fast.

 

[humblepie]

Went to Hartpury for the first time yesterday and we felt that it was a really nice event with a good atmosphere for spectating. There was quite a bit of looking out for yourself when walking round particularly through the woods but everyone was behaving very well and watching out for horses.

 

[LEC]

Spectators were not supposed to walk through the woods there was a track round the outside. It should have been better signposted. The crossing guards were non existent and people were sat in random places. With everything running so quickly it was tough to know where to cross and not be in the way. It is an event which does pay attention to feedback so i am sure will come out sharper next year.

 

[Double_choc_lab]

As a mother if someone had driven into my offspring and horse I think in the heat of the moment I may have done likewise. She may not have known at that point that they were both uninjured. I would also ask for my horse to be x rayed and scanned at their expense this was due to someone's negligence. We were over 200 yrds away and heard the thud - it was that loud

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

As a mother if someone had driven into my offspring and horse I think in the heat of the moment I may have done likewise. She may not have known at that point that they were both uninjured. I would also ask for my horse to be x rayed and scanned at their expense this was due to someone's negligence. We were over 200 yrds away and heard the thud - it was that loud

Ditto, if someone drove in to NMT and fig they would be lucky if I left their head on their shoulders.....how on earth can this been allowed to happen?! Makes me feel ill, poor rider, poor horse.

 

[{97702}]

Spectators were not supposed to walk through the woods there was a track round the outside. It should have been better signposted. The crossing guards were non existent and people were sat in random places. With everything running so quickly it was tough to know where to cross and not be in the way. It is an event which does pay attention to feedback so i am sure will come out sharper next year.

As a spectator I was clearly told by the crossing point steward at the entrance to the woods that it was OK to walk through and I should keep to the right - I was astonished!

 

[blackhor2e]

It is so sad for this kind of thing to happen at BE, I feel for all those involved and I do hope the horse and rider are ok as reported. It's shocking but by the sounds of it was waiting to happen?

 

[stencilface]

I don't know hartpury, but I did have a reasonable near miss just walking when I was at Aston. When there are so many courses, different routes on different days and so many options it is hard to be always on the right side of the string, even if you are very vigilant. Luckily, I really was far out of the way really, but a horse suddenly appearing over a hedge in a hedge line was a surprise!

 

[ajn1610]

This whole incident does point of the double edged sword of social media, too. While it means word gets out about these incidents and makes it easier to take a good hard look at the hows and whys, it also means information gets disseminated to quickly there is no time to fact check. I did originally hear TR's mother hit the driver and then heard that she's shoved her as part of a heated conversation. I don't know which story, if either, is true and neither does anyone else unless there were standing there and saw the whole thing. To speculate on how people should or should not have behaved and judge them accordingly when we're not even sure what exactly happened seems a bit unfair.

It also points up the problem that maybe heroic efforts to maximise numbers, keep costs down and deal with the problem of lack of volunteers can have real repercussions. Everyone wants events to be cheap, provide lots of opportunities to compete, run in the minimum amount of time, and not necessitate any inconvenience to themselves. But something always gives when you pack 'em in too hard and fast.

^^^ What TS said! I think the job of operating crossings is a vital safety issue however they are often left to kids or not manned at all. I volunteer at a lot of events in a number of different capacities, including things that have meant I need to drive round a course and it's difficult and stressful. I'm sure everyone at the Event was doing their best to ensure that everyone had a good days competition and it's terribly sad that this happened although I think it's more common than you'd expect, just in my immediate circle of friends I know of a number of incidents when vehicles or volunteers have got in the way of a horse on course one of which resulted in a horse fall. However it does raise questions about the number of riders events accept given that a couple of holds (albeit long ones) have meant they needed to run horses so close together. Although we all complain about cost and number of runs etc. ultimately safety should come first.

 

[Honey08]

I am absolutely amazed at the number of parents that say they would happily assult someone in the heat of the moment!! Its not as though the car deliberately hit the horse and rider, and to be honest I would be too wrapped up in checking that horse and rider were ok at that point.

I feel very sorry for the horse, rider and driver. I hope that the incident has a proper inquiry that results in safer practices in the future.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I am absolutely amazed at the number of parents that say they would happily assult someone in the heat of the moment!! Its not as though the car deliberately hit the horse and rider, and to be honest I would be too wrapped up in checking that horse and rider were ok at that point.

I feel very sorry for the horse, rider and driver. I hope that the incident has a proper inquiry that results in safer practices in the future.

This ^^^^^

 

[3Beasties]

I am absolutely amazed at the number of parents that say they would happily assult someone in the heat of the moment!! Its not as though the car deliberately hit the horse and rider, and to be honest I would be too wrapped up in checking that horse and rider were ok at that point.

I feel very sorry for the horse, rider and driver. I hope that the incident has a proper inquiry that results in safer practices in the future.

Ditto this ^^^

IMO the mother has acted worse then everyone in this.

 

[DuckToller]

I am absolutely amazed at the number of parents that say they would happily assult someone in the heat of the moment!! Its not as though the car deliberately hit the horse and rider, and to be honest I would be too wrapped up in checking that horse and rider were ok at that point.

I feel very sorry for the horse, rider and driver. I hope that the incident has a proper inquiry that results in safer practices in the future.

And this again - I suspect both horse and rider will recover far quicker than the person who accidentally caused the accident and who will probably be having nightmares for years.

I have jump judged for the afternoon and been sent off with a map and a vague wave of the hand and had to find my way across the course to my jump - I had no idea of the course layout or direction and had to inch my way across the land.

It is also not the first time this has happened this year - a rider fell off and the horse galloped home and was hit by a car about 6 weeks ago at another event - a steward was driving across and had looked in the direction of where the horses were coming from ie the start, but was not expecting a horse coming back from the other direction. Horse went over the bonnet, and required many stitches.

 

[TarrSteps]

Re TR's mother behaving 'the worst of anyone' . . . we don't know if anyone hit anyone!! I've heard a couple of different versions of events and I have no doubt not all of them are first hand from spectators at close quarters.

 

[vic07]

With regards to this happening at another event... I watched the incident and it was quite different. However emotions ran high then as well. Seems there needs to be 'lessons learnt' from both incidences - however possibly different lessons!

 

[sarahann1]

What an awful accident. Having been a crossing point bod at a couple of big events, it put me off ever doing it again. It's a thankless task and on all occasions no one has thought to come and tell me and the folk I was with there was a course stop, or they are changing classes so get for a toilet run while you can. Very few folk say thanks, or even make eye contact with you, but instead tut, and huff because you aren't letting them across. Horsey folk who think they know better and members of the public who are clueless at the risks in vast numbers really isn't fun. The bun runs always seem to miss us out too, maybe it was just bad luck, but at one event I saw the bun run go past the fence judges a few times, they came by me once

I'm very saddened that such a horrible accident had happened, but I'm not really surprised they are lacking volunteers. Maybe if the crossing point people were afforded the same respect as the fence judges they'd get more? As someone further pointed out, they are one vital safety mechanism out of many.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant!

 

[Magister]

Re TR's mother behaving 'the worst of anyone' . . . we don't know if anyone hit anyone!! I've heard a couple of different versions of events and I have no doubt not all of them are first hand from spectators at close quarters.

I saw the whole incident from about 30 metres away and this definitely did happen. :-(

 

[BE_Volunteer]

Good Morning all. I think it is about time we took a step back and look at all the facts, rather than whispers, hear say, and un-informed comments.

Before I start, my comments are not directed at any one in particular, we are all entitled to our views and opinions - this is a forum after all. Whilst I will generalize, I am not talking about everybody, so please no body be offended. A little to my background, I have Evented for many years, aswell as helping organize events for a decade, so have a good rounded view on how things work on both sides of the fence. I can also say that I was there, a matter of meters away, and witnessed it all

I will start by saying, we all know this should not have happened, however thank god the outcome was only a dented car - no injury was caused to the horse, however we are all aware how difficult this can be.

Firstly I would like to say, it amazes me how many experts come out of the woodwork, who were not there, and ones that were there who do not have their facts straight.
Firstly to how Tom's mother reacted. Yes she screamed, shouted and approach the driver and given the circumstances and human nature it is understandable. In hindsight was this right, no, but she is a loving mother, and that instinct will take over. This only lasted for a few moments, until she was led away calmly. She calmed down very quickly and was impeccably well behaved, whilst also being treated for shock. She apologized at the time, and later on in the day.

Next I would like to comment on the crossing point being un-manned. I challenge you all to go out to your local event and count the number of un-manned crossing points. On any course, there are crossing points (and whilst outsiders don’t know this, officials do) that are used generally (which includes spectators) that you will all see manned, and those that are meant for emergencies only. These crossing point are rarely used, but are there if needed. These tend to be un-manned. Yes in an ideal world, all crossing points would be manned, but it is a thankless task that you struggle to get volunteers to do. This is why the crossing points stewards are prioritised to busier locations, and un-manned crossing points are placed (where possible) close to a fence for the fence judge to monitor. Some events use their local cadets, however this can be a problem in itself as they can be un-reliable and are often inexperienced young people who are not familiar with horses(Some cadets are amazing I will add!). Crossing points are essential for the smooth running of an event, and more importantly to get vets, paramedics, safety reps, fence repair, horse ambulances etc to incidents as quick as possible.

People have suggested that vehicles should not be allowed on courses. How do you expect vets, paramedics, safety reps, fence repair, horse ambulances etc to get to these incidents. All vehicles on course are there for a reason, and each of the above is allocated a sector of course to cover. Those that were at the event will be aware that the first horse of the day fell, and injured the rider. Jennifer was both unconscious and not breathing. I absolutely commend all who were involved in that incident. It is a fact that Jennifer would not be with us today if it was not for the fast and effective actions of those involved. Additionally, there were also 2 trapped horses at the second water. This was no fault of the event, the horse/riders mis-judged the fence, and got trapped between the drop and rail. Both horses were extricated in minutes, very calmly, with no injuries – all to the applause of the spectators and riders. Removing trapped horses takes an awful lot of experienced people to do safely, and these people can be scattered over the course. So I will ask you all again, should we have vehicles on course or should we have everybody on foot with their gear in wheel barrows?

People moan about quad bikes, but also moan when they don’t get their results quick enough – one day results will be sent wirelessly from a fence judges Ipad, but until entry fees go upto £1000 per horse, the quad bikes will have to suffice. Finally, the remaining officials on course are your ground jury, TD’s etc. They are essential to keep an eye on safety of horses, how riders are behaving and to discuss with fence judges any discrepancies when a riders complains about penalties that have been given. Now, they could wait until the end of the day to discuss this with the fence judge, but you horses wont appreciate waiting this long for the results, nor will you

People have also commented on how fast the horses were sent through the start. It has been suggested that they were running at 60 second intervals. This is simply not true. There is no way the TD’s, Ground Jury or control would allow this to happen.

It has been mentioned that there seems to have been a lot of holds on course and due to this it is perceived the event was run in confusion. The holds on course were due to rider falls and frangible pins breaking because horses have hit fences hard. These are a safety feature to stop rotational horse falls as many of you know. They take time to replace. Rotational horse fall or hold the course – it’s your choice, PICK ONE!!

People seem to have forgotten just how well this event was run and the ENORMOUS job that was involved. The ground was absolutely perfect, which has been echoed by all the riders, this alone has prevented many injuries to horses. The majority of this and other events are run by teams of volunteers who are up before the sun rises and often don’t finish until it is dark!

So, taking all the above into account I propose the following:

1) Raise entry fees so that a doctor, paramedic, wheel barrow (to remove injured persons to hospital), fence repair team can be provided on every fence or leave entry fees as they are and play Russian roulette with horse an riders lives by having all team members walk to incidents. This would of course be made easier if you could all fall of at the same fence!

2) Raise entry fees so that all volunteers can be paid to encourage more helpers. Alternatively those riders who don’t bother to volunteer (I am aware many of you do and you are great!!) Should have to pay a higher entry fee / provide a help. In Ireland, riders/someone connected to the rider MUST help out at events.

3) Stop all riders walking the course on the day of competitions or make you arrive at 6am (with horse left in wagon for all that time), as there is always a report of one or two getting in the way, and horses having to take avoiding actions

4) Stop all dogs, which includes riders dogs, as many are off the lead

5) Stop all children as they like to run around, and are also often not on a lead

6) Stop all spectators, as they always ignore the string and don’t use crossing points

7) Stop anybody who is rude and abusive to volunteers, which does include both riders and spectators

8) Reduce entries to 80 per event to make life easier, having only 1 horse on course at a time, of course entry fees will have to rise.

Now it’s up to you, we can vote either way here?

Now putting the sarcasm aside, this incident should not have happened, but we all know that the driver did not intend to drive across the track and hit a horse. You are also aware that the driver is very experienced and would not have crossed the track blasé.
These types of incidents can and do happen and have happened at MANY events before!!

I am hoping this has given you all a little insight, and would also hope in future that any comments that are made, are informed, rather than pure gossip.

Remove this incident from the event (and I am not trying to sweep it under the rug by any means), and it was a successful competition with no injuries to horses, fantastic ground and Jennifer is out of hospital recovering, all because of the hard work, organisation and fantastic reactions of an amazing team of staff/volunteers.

 

[Goldenstar]

Thank you for responding BE .
As you say this should not have happened .
Perhaps these unmanned crossing ought to be marked to show the direction of travel of the competing horses just in case someone looks the wrong way.

 

[BE_Volunteer]

I will point out that I am not BE, just a volunteer and rider that has done a lot with BE.

 

[BE_Volunteer]

It is an excellent idea though Golden Star. Constructive ideas are always welcome! It will be used!!!

 

[Gamebird]

I will point out that I am not BE, just a volunteer and rider that has done a lot with BE.

I think you may have caused some confusion with your choice of user name. I (and some others) assumed that this was the official line from BE HQ and were slightly concerned about the unprofessional tone from our governing body.

I agree with a lot of your points, but if you're not a BE representative giving the official line then I think you should possibly change your username as it's currently misleading.

 

[ester]

I was very concerned about the lack of professional tone given the user name.

 

[Capriole]

I think you may have caused some confusion with your choice of user name. I (and some others) assumed that this was the official line from BE HQ and were slightly concerned about the unprofessional tone from our governing body.

I agree with a lot of your points, but if you're not BE then I think you should possibly change your username as it's currently misleading.

That. I was a bit taken aback by the sarcastic and unprofessional tone, until it was pointed out that this was not in fact a BE official.

 

[MiaBella]

Quite simply this should not have happened. Thus there should be an investigation into why it did happen and what needs to be done (at all events) to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Not really bothered by how people reacted to the situation afterwards - however a horse going cross country, on the marked course should never be hit by a car (or have to take evassive measure to avoid a car) and nor should riders be expected to look out for vehicles in their path.

Its not about putting up entry fees or blocking vehicles from the course, its simply about ensuring that vehicles on the course can get around safely, and where there are points where they need to cross the course, these are either manned or there is signage to ensure drivers know they are crossing a course and the direction of travel of the horses and maybe including in the briefings to officials where crossing points are (and if courses are changing during the day and these points change then this needs to be communicated as well).

It shouldn't detract from the event but there are lessons that need to be learnt from this.

 

[_GG_]

I will point out that I am not BE, just a volunteer and rider that has done a lot with BE.

I do think it would be a good idea to change your username.

Your post started in a very official tone and ended in a somewhat sarcastic and unprofessional one. Given the wide audience of this forum and the fact that, by the very nature of your post and username being misleading, giving the impression that you are posting officially on behalf of BE, you could actually cause damage to the organisation you are trying to support.

If BE wanted to comment on this, they would. They do not need you to post on their behalf when you are unable to do so without remaining professional. I liked the first part of your post and thought it was very reasoned and valid. After that though, I cannot imagine BE would want to be associated with your tone or comments and it is no good adding a caveat in a separate post.

We have official members from other societies on here and their usernames are extremely similar in style to yours, so it is easy for people to assume that your message is the official stance of BE. Not everyone will go on to read the rest of the thread.

I understand you wanted to clear up a few points on this matter, but as you are not acting officially on behalf of BE, you should not be giving any impression that you are.

 

[BE_Volunteer]

I never intended to act as though I am from BE, others on here who are not BE officials have BE in their username. Perhaps confusing, but given my passion is with BE it seemed a natural choice given i couldn't think of anything else.

So all others who are un-informed to the facts can make wild comments without any thought that are often sarcastic and b*tchy can they? It does make you wonder why you volunteer!

 

[BE_Volunteer]

PS I came on here to make this one post, will no longer use this username and will reply to no further posts. You all now have the facts to make more informed comments in future, rather than speculating