Has anyone a valid reason...................

Rapidash said:
Riding on the roads is what's dangerous. The amount of smug posts on here from people who seem to think hi vis generates some magic forcefield... It doesn't. You're still putting yourself and your horse in the same danger of being hit by a car. Even if the risk was reduced 50% (which seems unlikely) and you like to play the numbers game, here's a tip if you care so much: not riding on the roads reduces the risk to zero.

Someone who doesn't ride on the roads could easily berate you all for needlessly endangering your horses so I'd suggest you all remember that just as you like to take calculated risks with your safety, so do others.

Be interesting to see what research there is into the benefit of wearing hi vis whilst riding.
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Exactly. Well said.
 
We ride on the road regularly (rural lanes and busy villages), and have never found hi-viz to be much of an issue - there are up to 10 of us, and I find drivers have much better eyesight when it's something they can't easily whizz past. It's surprising the courtesy you get from other road users when there are enough of you to intimidate THEM!

TBH, the training and traffic-proofing of your horse is a much greater issue. Hi-viz won't make your horse steady, and drivers make choices based on an assumption that your horse is quiet and under control.
 
I assume that people who don't wear high viz are not at all interested in persuading others NOT to wear high viz?

In which case, why do they open threads about high viz, and get themselves wound up about people who think they would be safer if they did?

And by the way, for some of people, their options are to ride on roads or never ride at all.

I also wonder how many people who say it doesn't work are grateful that speed cameras are painted yellow :)
 
pennyturner said:
We ride on the road regularly (rural lanes and busy villages), and have never found hi-viz to be much of an issue - there are up to 10 of us, and I find drivers have much better eyesight when it's something they can't easily whizz past. It's surprising the courtesy you get from other road users when there are enough of you to intimidate THEM!

TBH, the training and traffic-proofing of your horse is a much greater issue. Hi-viz won't make your horse steady, and drivers make choices based on an assumption that your horse is quiet and under control.
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Of course this is a thread about Hi vis but it's only a tiny part of what keeps you safe on the road by far the most important thing is the riders skill and the horses training .
 
pennyturner said:
We ride on the road regularly (rural lanes and busy villages), and have never found hi-viz to be much of an issue - there are up to 10 of us, and I find drivers have much better eyesight when it's something they can't easily whizz past. It's surprising the courtesy you get from other road users when there are enough of you to intimidate THEM!

TBH, the training and traffic-proofing of your horse is a much greater issue. Hi-viz won't make your horse steady, and drivers make choices based on an assumption that your horse is quiet and under control.
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I think riding in a group is very different .

I am a sole rider on narrow lanes, and there's a very marked difference between the number of drivers who stop completely and let me pass them when we are decked out like a Christmas tree. I've also had cyclists swing downhill at speed around blind corners in a dark wood who have narrowly avoided me. I'm reasonable sure of I'd been wearing muted colors I'd have been hit several times.

I don't think your last paragraph is true. The more high viz we have on, the greater the number of other road users, including dog walkers who restrain their dogs for me, treat my horse as if he may explode at any moment. Not all, of course, but one extra is a bonus.
 
MrGS was reading this over my shoulder while I did breakfast and said I was to post to say I was in the kitchen wearing a pink hi vis waistcoat and and yellow hi vis beanie hat .
We take H and S seriously in this house .
 
I wear it. Minimum of tabard and hat band for me and leg bands for horse, up to gloves, whip, bridle/rein covers, tail guard/exercise sheet and neck band. I also wear a tabard off road so I can be found in a ditch!

As a driver I know it makes people easier to see and I want people to see us and have time to react accordingly.

Of course not all do, but I feel I am doing my best to mitigate some of the risks of riding on roads by doing so.

I also feel that my horse doesn't ask to go on roads, that's my decision and I should do what I can to limit the risks for him. To choose not to, IMHO, is a very selfish decision.

We are both pretty yellow/orange. Yes we get comments positive and negative, what matters to me is that I am doing what I can to keep my horse safe whilst still getting out and enjoying him.
 
I wear hi-vis whether I am on the road or not. This is partly habit from when I lived in Somerset, we always wore hi-vis so the helicopters and pilots could see us and it made a big difference - there is a study somewhere by the RAF on the extra visibility to helicopter pilots. The other reason is so I can be found easily if I came off in a field somewhere.

I now live in rural Ireland where pavements are very much a rarity and the benefits of hi-vis are very well known round here, they hand out RSA yellow hi-vis vests like candy. My daughter came home with one from pre-school. Its rare to be in a shop or supermarket and not see someone wearing them, especially the older small farmers who check on their stock on foot or by bike, they just put them on in the morning as part of their work wear like their wellies.
 
I think it worrying when you hear the anti vi viz brigade all think we are smug wearing Hi Viz like it is fashion parade.


We are not smug lets get it straight. Hi viz does not guarantee your safety, we ALL know that, and we know riding on the roads is dangerous as is ANY SPORT of any kind skiing abseiling etc. You wear body protectors out cross country - why??? to reduce back injury or worst if you come off. Hi Viz reduces the likelihood of injury by giving a driver those precious moments to react accordingly. The same as we put our hazards on if the traffic slows to stop ahead on the motorway, which just because you put them on does not mean no one will hit you or rear end you but it gives the driver behind time to react and brake.

hear are 10 reasons for wearing it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2275260/Since-compulsory-wear-hi-viz.html


If you choose not to wear Hi Viz as you

don't like it
fashion statement
think no need
or what ever

remember your at risk more than we are,so go ahead if fashion or your views mean more than your horse as it will be your horse that is hit not you. If you want to be a statistic go ahead, I bet this girl would think twice now http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2275260/Since-compulsory-wear-hi-viz.html
 
I rarely use exercise sheets because they flap and slip around and are a general PITA. Other hi viz I use but can understand that the more commonly used it gets, the more drivers will just take for granted seeing hazards sooner and the effectiveness will decline.
 
I am lucky not to really have to touch any roads hacking, and WAS a member of the Hi Viz...can't be arsed what is the point camp.....

Until a friend last year was with her horse in the woods, it reared, fell over backwards, came down on her, broke it's neck and died....ON HER....she was crushed for a considerable time and trapped, on her own...knocked out so once she came round and called 999 air ambulance they were able to find her.......it took some time mainly as she was in a funny area of the woods with quite a covering and was also in shock, however I have no doubt that hi viz saved her life as they located her in time.

Now I have a Selco £14.99 jacket in lovely yellow...it is gross, but it is warm and waterproof and I can be seen.....

As for not wearing a hat, that is another convo but I really don't have time for people that don't....truly pathetic..
 
Flame_ said:
I rarely use exercise sheets because they flap and slip around and are a general PITA. Other hi viz I use but can understand that the more commonly used it gets, the more drivers will just take for granted seeing hazards sooner and the effectiveness will decline.
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Right so the more we use Hi Viz the less drivers will react to it, is that your statement ?


So how come we react quickly to someone standing on the side of the road over and over as we feel it is a copper with a speed gun!! I don't see drivers ignoring that hi viz
 
Red-1 said:
I find that interesting. Which companies do not insure if not wearing high viz? I am surprised as it is not a legal requirement. My insurance is through Shearwater, don't think they have that exclusion. I also have insurance through the BHS, I have not seen that as being a reason not to pay out?
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It won't be there I black and white, however, any insurance company who can find a reason why you as the policyholder didn't take "due care and use some common sense" will wriggle out of a claim...there are lots of grey areas in insurance. It doesn't have to be legal requirement...
 
unicornystar said:
I am lucky not to really have to touch any roads hacking, and WAS a member of the Hi Viz...can't be arsed what is the point camp.....

Until a friend last year was with her horse in the woods, it reared, fell over backwards, came down on her, broke it's neck and died....ON HER....she was crushed for a considerable time and trapped, on her own...knocked out so once she came round and called 999 air ambulance they were able to find her.......it took some time mainly as she was in a funny area of the woods with quite a covering and was also in shock, however I have no doubt that hi viz saved her life as they located her in time.

Now I have a Selco £14.99 jacket in lovely yellow...it is gross, but it is warm and waterproof and I can be seen.....

As for not wearing a hat, that is another convo but I really don't have time for people that don't....truly pathetic..
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Sorry to hear about your friend UnicornyStar how sad and tragic.
 
Flame_ said:
I rarely use exercise sheets because they flap and slip around and are a general PITA. Other hi viz I use but can understand that the more commonly used it gets, the more drivers will just take for granted seeing hazards sooner and the effectiveness will decline.
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Like the old saying you don't need to wear a hat till one day when your head is split open or you don't want to wear a seat belt till one day it saves your life
 
I don t think its about how drivers react to seeing a rider in hi viz, its about how soon they can see you.
Im particuarly struck by comments made to me from elderly drivers, two of whom have commented that they can see me coming long before they know what i am (ie horse rider, pedestrian cyclist) Its also got to be a good thing for the emergancy services, where i hack out is about 3 or four crop fields from our house. Often my neighbours comment on having followed nearly my whole hack , it really can t be a bad thing!
 
I found out first hand how it gave you just that extra couple of seconds needed to prevent an accident. 6.30am, I was driving to work in the dark, a commuter road where most people did 40mph although in effect it was a country lane. Went round a corner fortunately only doing about 25mph and legging it down to the dual carriageway was a TB and it's pony friend. Both had rugs on and on the back of the rugs were reflective strips. They had obviously escaped. I managed to stop. Without the strips I wouldn't have seen a dark horse with a dark blue rug in the dark.

On that same road some years earlier I met racehorses out exercising each morning. All in dark colours, in the half light. Very very difficult to see, in fact impossible. I complained to the police and they equipped themselves with yellow hi viz. It improved my daily journey considerably knowing that I was less likely to damage a horse.

High viz won't stop uncaring drivers but it may well prevent the likes of me from hitting a horse and it definitely does give you those extra 2 seconds.
 
The answer to the question is VANITY, but they probably wont admit it.Its raining and they wear any old coat to keep dry,its sunny and they wear a t shirt to keep cool ,the jods are 5 yrs old ,and the boots havent seen polish in a month,but if they wear hi-vis they dont look good?If they are vain why haven't they always got there best show clothes on? (yes i know not everyone has best show clothes) 40 horses at the yard i am on ,we are the only ones who wear hi-vis every time we ride,busy A road for a mile one way to good rides, instant access to a wood behind yard the other way,umpteen mountain bikers (plus illegal quads and trials bikes) dog walkers with loose dogs,with high-vis bikers spot us earlier and slow down, dog walkers call their dogs back ,and even some of the Q/&TBs stop and switch the engines off .One horse locally was hit by a mountain bike,£400 vet bill horse out of action for 9 months, cyclist rode off and didnt say sorry or leave his name and address ,they weren't wearing high vis,not its not foolproof but i think it puts me in a safer possition,glad i am not vain!
 
Yes I have a valid reason... There are no cars where we hack ;)

Although if I was going off the track alone without having pre-written my route on the white board, then I probably would in order to be found easier if god forbid there was an accident.
 
alainax said:
Yes I have a valid reason... There are no cars where we hack ;)

Although if I was going off the track alone without having pre-written my route on the white board, then I probably would in order to be found easier if god forbid there was an accident.
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I never wore hi-viz when I was at our old yard (which I think is where you are now!), because all the hacking was off-road. Now I have to because we need to go on the roads to get anywhere, unless we take the box out.
 
We didn't really use to wear hi viz at my old yard as our roadwork was simply crossing a B road. However, as phone services weren't great in our area, someone did work out it was easier to be found if anything happened if you were wearing hi viz so the change was made. Where I am now it is utterly inconceivable that you would leave without hi viz as we have busy roads. I don't accept drivers get blasé with hi viz ..quite the opposite. We are conditioned now to accept that Hi Viz is alerting us to another persons presence so slow down as soon as we see any.
 
Not wearing a hat, fine, you are only endagering yourself and you know the risks, your choice.

Not wearing Hi Vis? You are endangering others. I feel the same way about all road users, whether that be runners, cyclists, horse riders, even motorbikes.

To me, horses get a bad press for being on roads, so why give drivers an excuse not to see you? An extra reason to target horse riders? If something happens because I car passed too fast or too close or you get hit and you were wearing Hi Vis, they have no excuse. If you are hit and you weren't wearing Hi Vis, they have an excuse. Why give them that excuse?

When I hacked I had a tabard on and my horse had Hi Vis on, so if we parted company, we would be seen seperately.

When I had my little 125cc bike, I still worse a Hi Vis tabart. Takes 5 seconds to put on, costs a few quid. Not rocket science.
 
Flame_ said:
Other hi viz I use but can understand that the more commonly used it gets, the more drivers will just take for granted seeing hazards sooner and the effectiveness will decline.
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That doesn't really make sense. It doesn't matter if drivers take for granted being able to see hazards sooner, the important point is that they will STILL be able to see the hazards sooner. That won't have changed. As others have pointed out, no-one thinks hi viz changes the way a driver acts - it won't make a rude driver polite, for example - but it does allow you to be seen more quickly and easily. I don't see how that can ever be a bad thing.
 
Goldenstar said:
I see people riding on the road all the time with positions so poor I would not let them off the lunge let alone loose on the road in control of an horse but again that's their choice .
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I am not sure that 'just because I can' is a valid reason for doing anything!

I agree with you about the appalling riding that can be seen out and about, GS, but surely that is an argument *for* all riders/horses wearing hi-viz on the roads? Drivers have those extra few seconds notice that there is a horse ahead and they may need to take evasive action because the rider may not be able to!

I should add that not all riders with poor positions will be on reactive horses - I have a 'bombproof' mare who I honestly could put a complete novice on and set them off to the top of the road onto the circular track and back down the quiet road. The mare would not put a foot wrong, would speed up/slow down as necessary to avoid passing parked cars at the same time as a moving car and bring the novice back safely. The rider would probably look dreadful to a passing observer but they would be safe. I hasten to add that I shall not be doing so, novices have ridden her but always on a lead-rein.

I wish more runners/dog-walkers round her would wear reflective gear at night, we have no pavements and sometimes the only clue that they are there is the white sole of their trainers or their dog's eyes reflecting in the headlights - terribly unsafe.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
I wish more runners/dog-walkers round her would wear reflective gear at night, we have no pavements and sometimes the only clue that they are there is the white sole of their trainers or their dog's eyes reflecting in the headlights - terribly unsafe.
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Totally agree with this. We live a mile outside our village up a single track road that's quite popular with runners and dog walkers because it's fairly quiet. I've lost count of how many times I've had to slam the brakes on to avoid hitting either someone running/walking or their loose dog because there isn't a scrap of hi-vis/reflective material to be seen! And I never go above second gear on that road so it certainly isn't that I'm going too fast (before I'm told that I'm clearly a danger to pedestrians and shouldn't be driving :p)
 
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dibbin said:
Totally agree with this. We live a mile outside our village up a single track road that's quite popular with dog walkers. I've lost count of how many times I've had to slam the brakes on to avoid hitting either someone walking or their loose dog because there isn't a scrap of hi-vis/reflective material to be seen! And I never come out of second gear on that road so it certainly isn't that I'm going too fast (before I'm told that my inability to see someone in dark clothes in appalling weather means I'm clearly a danger to pedestrians and shouldn't be driving :p)
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Me too! Infact the other night I nearly hit a cyclist, just ouside of town, at night, just casually riding down the middle of the road, in black, with no lights, no reflective strips, nothing. I slammed on to avoid hitting him as he then decides to swerve out infront of me without looking to turn left. If he had been wearing Hi Vis, or had a reflective strip on his bike, I would have seen him much sooner. Two seconds later and he would have been decorating my bonnet and not in a good way :(

We have black labs and when we used to walk them near roads in the dark we had a yelow reflective collar for him with red flashing lights on so that a) he could be seen and b) we could see him when we let him off the lead in the park!
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
I am not sure that 'just because I can' is a valid reason for doing anything!

I agree with you about the appalling riding that can be seen out and about, GS, but surely that is an argument *for* all riders/horses wearing hi-viz on the roads? Drivers have those extra few seconds notice that there is a horse ahead and they may need to take evasive action because the rider may not be able to!

I should add that not all riders with poor positions will be on reactive horses - I have a 'bombproof' mare who I honestly could put a complete novice on and set them off to the top of the road onto the circular track and back down the quiet road. The mare would not put a foot wrong, would speed up/slow down as necessary to avoid passing parked cars at the same time as a moving car and bring the novice back safely. The rider would probably look dreadful to a passing observer but they would be safe. I hasten to add that I shall not be doing so, novices have ridden her but always on a lead-rein.

I wish more runners/dog-walkers round her would wear reflective gear at night, we have no pavements and sometimes the only clue that they are there is the white sole of their trainers or their dog's eyes reflecting in the headlights - terribly unsafe.
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A persons riding is not improved by wearing hi vis .
Its improved by hard work sweat and effort .
 
The other thing is *IF* there is an accident involving a car and horse the police will tell the rider that they are partly at fault for not wearing HI VIZ, and this will be used against the rider if the case goes to court.


However if the rider IS wearing it the court will use that against the driver. There will be one less thing for the rider to be blamed for as the driver cannot say they did not see them.
 
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