Has anyone a valid reason...................

Flame_ said:
I rarely use exercise sheets because they flap and slip around and are a general PITA. Other hi viz I use but can understand that the more commonly used it gets, the more drivers will just take for granted seeing hazards sooner and the effectiveness will decline.
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Brilliant argument, this deserves a gold star. Along the same lines cars should stop having their headlights on in the dark because the more they are used the more other drivers will take them for granted and their effectiveness will decline. Everyone knows you should randomly switch your headlines on and off to startle other drivers into seeing them.
 
I drive to work via country lanes and main roads. I came to a T- junction and looked thoroughly both way before pulling out as I know the cars come down the hill extremely fast. I didn't see the cyclist dressed in black on a black bike and it was a lovely sunny morning. I missed him by shear luck. It shocked me. If I had of hit him and caused harm, I don't know how I would manage to deal with that mentally for the rest of MY life.

If he had been wearing hi vis / reflective gear I would have seen him (I always drive with lights on).

Perhaps those who choose not to make themselves as vis as possible when out and about, be that on your beloved horse, cycling or walking your dog, should think about others and not be so b***** selfish.

There will always be accidents and there will always be those who drive, cycle and ride stupidly but it's all about assessing the risk and doing things to reduce the risk.

When we ride out my horse and i both have lights, reflectives and hi vis on. I don't really care if I look fashionable or not, I'll save that for the school.

Most of my gear is from shops like Halfords, or cycling websites. It doesn't cost much. Hopefully it will help drivers and other responsible road users to see me and may just reduce the risk we take when we are out and about in this ever busy and fast moving world.
 
Flame_ said:
I rarely use exercise sheets because they flap and slip around and are a general PITA. Other hi viz I use but can understand that the more commonly used it gets, the more drivers will just take for granted seeing hazards sooner and the effectiveness will decline.
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Some horses are not safe in sheets .
The thermatex ones are the best I have found for nervous of sheet horses .
I wish I would find a hi vis walker rug for the lead horses has anybody found one ?
 
i work on the theory that, it will give the driver a chance of seeing a horse/jogger/dog walker and cyclist quicker than with out. i nearly pulled out on a cyclist this week it was about 4.30 ish, darkish and raining a bit........................the cyclist was on a black bike, in black, with a black hat with a very small flashy light. so merged wonderfully with the wet dark tarmac and dark hedge. cool in black, yep but possibly might end up "dead cool" although i do not wish that on any one.
the roads are busier than we most of us were kids, i agree with HGA-12 it might not be cool to light up as Christmas tree but at least in court they can not say they didn't see us.


why to i seem to passionate about this, when i was 17yr, i was run over whilst riding, in good light conditions, ended up behind the boot of the car, horse sat on the bonnet and pushed the engine through, and my friend's horse bolted and she came off ended up with a fractured skull and in hospital i was lucky i only broke an arm.

since then i have not cared about how cool i look......................living is better.
 
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ycbm said:
No conclusive evidence for cyclists? You can't have followed my pointer. I'll post it again.


I don't personally need conclusive evidence for what I can see with my own eyes.
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Thanks for posting the link. Interesting read. I especially liked this part:

"the control group has 199 solo accidents and the test group has 150 solo accidents. This difference is statistically significant. This is surprising since the higher visibility provided by the jacket could hardly have had any influence on the number of solo accidents. An explanation to the fewer solo accidents in the test group could be that the participants in the experiment are volunteers who believe in the effect of the jacket and thus have been affected by their belief to report accidents in such a manner that the test group reported fewer accidents than they should have objectively and the control group most likely a bit more. This hypothesis is supported by the participants’ answers in the final questionnaire of the project. To the question: ”To which degree do you believe that a bright-coloured bicycle jacket/vest can increase the safety in traffic in general?” almost all participants answered that they believed in the safety effect of a bright-coloured bicycle jacket."

I think perhaps the data might be a bit skewed in favour of the hi viz jacket.
 
I never wear it and never have and that is the thing, I am nearly 50 years old and hi viz clothing didn't exist when I started to ride or through my teens and twenties also roads were much quieter then so there was no need for it. I always wear a riding hat but know people who are older than me who have never used one as it wasn't a normal thing for them when they learned to ride.i was riding summer before last wearing a bright pink fleece on a bay horse and when I got back a girl on the yard really had a go at me for not wearing a hi viz jacket as she 'had only just seen me' as she passed me on the road. Now really if that was the case she needed her eyes testing, a lovely day and me in bright pink!! I think some people just like to think they know best and try to dictate to others.
 
At the moment the burden of responsibility is on the motorists to be looking and thinking ahead, with clear windscreens, sunglasses (and prescription glasses when required) to hand, working headlights and to drive to the conditions of the road. If there is a hazard in the road a car driver should see it. Many motorists fail to live up to this responsibility and it has become necessary for vulnerable road users to adopt as many methods of self-preservation as possible but it is not right.

The op wanted valid reasons for not wearing high viz and while I don't think they outweigh the valid reasons for wearing high viz, I think increasing motorists' complacency by making it generally less necessary for them to have to concentrate and think ahead, along with the shifting of responsibly to the victims are important ones.
 
CC..I am gob smacked...because wasn't available when you learnt to ride, but is now now, that's the reason you don't use it?!

Computers and smart phones weren't available, but you are using one now. It's called progress. The girl who told you she couldn't see you, obviously thought it worthwhile to take the time to tell you.
 
Crugeran Celt said:
I never wear it and never have and that is the thing, I am nearly 50 years old and hi viz clothing didn't exist when I started to ride or through my teens and twenties also roads were much quieter then so there was no need for it. I always wear a riding hat but know people who are older than me who have never used one as it wasn't a normal thing for them when they learned to ride.i was riding summer before last wearing a bright pink fleece on a bay horse and when I got back a girl on the yard really had a go at me for not wearing a hi viz jacket as she 'had only just seen me' as she passed me on the road. Now really if that was the case she needed her eyes testing, a lovely day and me in bright pink!! I think some people just like to think they know best and try to dictate to others.
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Age isn't an issue really, is it? perhaps its more the 'I am older therefore I am more visible and safer' perhaps? ;)

I'm in my mid 50's. Yes I had the hat with knicker elastic in the 60's, but when the skulls came out (BS4472 in 1980) I got one as was chasing that year, in the early 80's I used cyclists sam brown belts and tabards for road work - just like the PC did for R&R/safety tests back then.

'Back then' people also wore soft felt hats to ride, or headscarves, we also used heavy canvas new zealand rugs and horses were stalled on rope and log, we had metal horrid water buckets (******* to lift!) and so many other items that have mostly been eradicated (hurrah!) for comfort, safety or just evolvement.

Like Neddyman said further up this thread, I wear my hi viz to be seen, usually by dog walkers, cyclists etc on the off road riding I do most of the time. Its paid dividends, as many have slowed or caught up errant dogs.

Your choice on what to wear, your horse cannot speak tho.
 
Goldenstar said:
There is some work on this in the work place I remember my brother telling me about this he's an expert in this sort of thing .
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This is actually true. I am trying to remember what psychological study it was but I will stand corrected if it isn't the mere-exposure phenomenon. Basically once a person becomes so used to seeing a particular stimuli they no longer react to it the way they used to, similar to familiarity breeds contempt. So the theory is that the more they see it, the less of it that they actually 'see'.

I do wear it these days but only so drivers cannot give us abuse. I hate wearing it with a passion. It was only 5 weeks ago that we last had a mouthful of abuse for riding on the roads, even while wearing hi-viz - haven't been out since and none of ours bar 1 will tolerate an exercise sheet flapping merrily in the wind while hacking out - its a hard enough job riding a young, fit horse as it is without a sheet trying to kill the bleeding animal too.

So yes in response to your original question there is a valid excuse. I don't want to is a perfectly valid excuse. Just like at dusk when asking the husband why he hadn't put his side lights on at 3pm, I don't want to was the reason. Personal choice. It isn't compulsary for cyclists to wear hi-viz (these are generally much more quiet and less easy to see than a horse and a darn sight more ignorant aswell), pedestrians don't need to wear it and neither do dog walkers. Sorry OP, personal opinion on this one for me.
 
To those who say that Hi-Viz may become useless, as people get used to seeing it, we have found that the best response we get is to the movement of Hi-Viz catching the drivers eye. We use flourescent and reflective leg wraps, always. We have had many comments about how they alert drivers to us being there. We have had a car full of boy racers slow down to shout "Nice socks" :D
We also use flourescent martingale type straps, have hat bands and Flouro jackets. We have exercise sheets for all and intend to start the younsters wearing them when out on roads unridden.
 
Goldenstar said:
A persons riding is not improved by wearing hi vis .
Its improved by hard work sweat and effort .
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I quite agree but do not see how that is relevant to this thread.

My point was that some dreadful riding can indeed be seen on the roads and tracks but that even poor riders and their horses can be made that bit safer by giving drivers/cyclists/dogwalkers etc a few seconds more notice that they are there. And that poor riders may not have reactive horses, so are possibly safer than they look.
I have seen disgraceful riding at shows too, wearing show gear doesn't make a good rider either, again hard work , sweat and effort are necessary.
 
Hanson it's not the reason I don't use it but it isn't something I have ever thought about. I don't need to ride on roads as the lane I live on leads directly onto a mountain. If I ride on the road I always ride at quiet times when there is very little traffic or I stick to lanes that are only occasionally used by farm traffic. Perhaps if I lived in a busy area I would be more concious of it. A friend of mine rides a young horse and she always wears one that says young horse on it. I have no objection to them and obviously if you are going to ride in poor light or busy roads it's very sensible to be seen but I really don't think every rider needs to wear one all the time.
 
The wife said:
This is actually true. I am trying to remember what psychological study it was but I will stand corrected if it isn't the mere-exposure phenomenon. Basically once a person becomes so used to seeing a particular stimuli they no longer react to it the way they used to, similar to familiarity breeds contempt. So the theory is that the more they see it, the less of it that they actually 'see'.

I do wear it these days but only so drivers cannot give us abuse. I hate wearing it with a passion. It was only 5 weeks ago that we last had a mouthful of abuse for riding on the roads, even while wearing hi-viz - haven't been out since and none of ours bar 1 will tolerate an exercise sheet flapping merrily in the wind while hacking out - its a hard enough job riding a young, fit horse as it is without a sheet trying to kill the bleeding animal too.

So yes in response to your original question there is a valid excuse. I don't want to is a perfectly valid excuse. Just like at dusk when asking the husband why he hadn't put his side lights on at 3pm, I don't want to was the reason. Personal choice. It isn't compulsary for cyclists to wear hi-viz (these are generally much more quiet and less easy to see than a horse and a darn sight more ignorant aswell), pedestrians don't need to wear it and neither do dog walkers. Sorry OP, personal opinion on this one for me.
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With regard to the youngsters not coping with exercise sheets when hacking, do you not practise this in the school? Do your youngsters not wear rugs for turn out? I am quite concerned that some-one would not wear Hi-Viz because their horse chose not to!
 
Hanson said:
CC..I am gob smacked...because wasn't available when you learnt to ride, but is now now, that's the reason you don't use it?!

Computers and smart phones weren't available, but you are using one now. It's called progress. The girl who told you she couldn't see you, obviously thought it worthwhile to take the time to tell you.
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Well I am older than CC and I wear a hi vis coat .
However you can't argue that a horse wearing a hi vis sheet is not visible just because the rider had not got hi vis on the torso.
And as an older rider I do find it impossible to find a coat where I am comfortable with the cut .
I can not wear running and cycling stuff it does not fit me and I look awful I need well made well cut riding clothing why oh why isn't there any ?
The quality and choice in riding wear has got worse all I can find is relatively cheap rubbish .
 
Fair enough CC, if you don't have any need to ride on the road and have direct access to off road hacking (lucky you!), then it is your choice if you wear hi vis etc or not. Personally I still would as it helps emergency services to locate you, if the worst happens. But entirely your choice. Your post didn't make that clear and I assumed you did roadwork, sorry.

However when we SHARE the roads with other users, the out of courtesy to them, we should make ourselves as visible as possible.
 
FestiveG said:
With regard to the youngsters not coping with exercise sheets when hacking, do you not practise this in the school? Do your youngsters not wear rugs for turn out? I am quite concerned that some-one would not wear Hi-Viz because their horse chose not to!
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We have had horses who won't tolerate sheets in windy weather .
Anyone having trouble should try a thermatex expensive but better than the usual hi vis sheet .
 
FestiveG said:
With regard to the youngsters not coping with exercise sheets when hacking, do you not practise this in the school? Do your youngsters not wear rugs for turn out? I am quite concerned that some-one would not wear Hi-Viz because their horse chose not to!
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We wear hi-viz but not hi-viz exercise sheets. Of course they wear rugs and it will of course wear them while riding out on the tracks where it is away from traffic but I have yet to find a hi-viz exercise sheet that is not rustly or one that fits well as I have them fitted 'race-horse' style on the rump rather than sitting on the tail like most people seem to do. The thermatex/wool/material ones are grand as if the wind is blowing up too much you can tuck them under your bottom and stop them flapping but I am not risking life and limb on a rustly, awkward fitting, un-foldable hi-viz on a traffic shy young horse for the sake of it wearing a bright yellow sheet.

If the makers of said hi-viz made a traditional fitting (read that as one designed to fit a race-horse) that didn't rustle ever time the horse took a step side-ways then I still wouldn't wear one unless they needed it. IMHO exercise sheets should be worn for the comfort of the horse, ie) to keep the quarters warm while warming up/steady exercise, if they don't need one, they don't wear one - taking aside my issues with them anyway.
 
Goldenstar said:
We have had horses who won't tolerate sheets in windy weather .
Anyone having trouble should try a thermatex expensive but better than the usual hi vis sheet .
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It isn't just me then, we had one particular horse who was so reactive you just could not put a sheet on him. Even in windy conditions in the field he would spook at his own rug. He was a panic runner so there is not a hope in hell I would have instigated him running, let alone on the roads. The wool ones or traditional ones I do not have an issue with on the whole. If you are having problems you can fold them under and sit on them. the hi-viz ones you just cannot do this with. My point was I do not have an issue with sheets if they need them but I do not like the way hi-viz sheets fit, sound or feel. :)
 
Booboos said:
Brilliant argument, this deserves a gold star. Along the same lines cars should stop having their headlights on in the dark because the more they are used the more other drivers will take them for granted and their effectiveness will decline. Everyone knows you should randomly switch your headlines on and off to startle other drivers into seeing them.
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lmao this is exactly what my husband just said
 
Crugeran Celt said:
I never wear it and never have and that is the thing, I am nearly 50 years old and hi viz clothing didn't exist when I started to ride or through my teens and twenties also roads were much quieter then so there was no need for it. I always wear a riding hat but know people who are older than me who have never used one as it wasn't a normal thing for them when they learned to ride.i was riding summer before last wearing a bright pink fleece on a bay horse and when I got back a girl on the yard really had a go at me for not wearing a hi viz jacket as she 'had only just seen me' as she passed me on the road. Now really if that was the case she needed her eyes testing, a lovely day and me in bright pink!! I think some people just like to think they know best and try to dictate to others.
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You comment on age falls short as I am 54 and I wear it and would never put my horse at risk, and whether they were around or not it is not a valid excuse not to wear it.
 
FestiveG said:
With regard to the youngsters not coping with exercise sheets when hacking, do you not practise this in the school? Do your youngsters not wear rugs for turn out? I am quite concerned that some-one would not wear Hi-Viz because their horse chose not to!
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Good point and do these riders not use other exercise rugs like wool ones or warm wrap around, if they do the hi viz is no different
 
Booboos said:
Brilliant argument, this deserves a gold star. Along the same lines cars should stop having their headlights on in the dark because the more they are used the more other drivers will take them for granted and their effectiveness will decline. Everyone knows you should randomly switch your headlines on and off to startle other drivers into seeing them.
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Car drivers are not obliged to cover their vehicles in florescent before dark in case other drivers are too blind/ gormless/ are going too fast to see and react to them being there. Lights are important in poor visibility, for all road users. I often use lights for riding at dusk this time of year and a horse rider moaned at me because "her horse didn't like my flashing lights". There are just too many people trying to co-exist, lol.
 
Goldenstar said:
We have had horses who won't tolerate sheets in windy weather .
Anyone having trouble should try a thermatex expensive but better than the usual hi vis sheet .
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So why not lunge them in one till used to it?? We did that with a flighty mare who hated the rustle sound. Now you can throw it on and she wont bat an eyelid. Desensitize horse to something and they will not bother with it anymore.
 
For those that can't use sheets, there are things like the parson's rump that increase visibility without flapping around.
I use mesh sheets, they are silent, no rustle, fold up easily to be sat on if required, aren't slippery, and are light enough to go over a naked horse or a normal exercise sheet if needed. They aren't waterproof but if you can't have rustle then I assume you can't have waterproof either so that isn't a problem.
 
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Goldenstar said:
Some horses are not safe in sheets .
The thermatex ones are the best I have found for nervous of sheet horses .
I wish I would find a hi vis walker rug for the lead horses has anybody found one ?
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Our local place has ultra reflective Horseware ones, but I think they're only for riding.
 
As I have said on the other thread about hi-viz, you would be unlikely to get much compensation even for life changing injuries if you are not wearing hi-viz. Fact.
You had the choice and you chose not to. Therefore not due care and attention.
 
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