has anyone got any good navicular stories?

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kezimac

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my horse was diagnosed with changes to navicular bone last may, she had xrays, was on navilox. had eggbars and then came sound the second he put wedges on. She has been sound ever since. We have been doing dressage over the winter and really getting on well. This last week she has been un level again and i just think its the beginning of the end. I know i shouldnt be thinking that after only a week but its just a feeling - perhaps i am trying to prepare for the worst. I am getting her re xrayed next week to see how it looks.
Has anyone else with navicular had instances where horse for no reason goes unlevel but comes back sound again - is it because ground is hard??
So depressed - had a cry this morning - she is only 13. and I cant afford to have another horse as well as her.
She also has arthritis in hock which has fused 2 yr ago. she lives out 24/7.
heres a pic of her. (not recent though)
phone004.jpg
 
just to add we only tend to work on a surface - occasionally hack on grass - and only trot/canter on level surfaces - have hacked 4 times over winter!!! so only ever work her on the soft ground.
 
Sorry to hear your horse is having problems - here's a positive one for you!

We have a lovely horse on our yard - Godfrey - who was diagnosed with Navicular a few months back, he stopped work completely and we were told it was so bad he would have to be PTS, then when one of the lads was just walking in hand the vet happened to walk past and took a second look, got a second opinion and with a bit of tlc he is now back in light work, which is mostly on the road but he is managing fine it seems.

Fingers crossed for you both
 
Both my ADV mares have had navicular, both have been opperated on at Newmarket by Ian Wright both returned to OI/ADV competition one retired sound the other was lame thru a bone spur on the back of the navicular,which was a problem, but shes happily in foal again.
IME there are several maintenace routes
 
I have heard good things about horses with navicular that have gone barefoot and come sound. Shall try and find the link ...
this site is fab and they are so helpful http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/Rockley_Farm/Changing_hooves.html
this is rather fluffier than I would normally go for, but v interesting http://www.wildhooves.co.uk/hoof-disorders.htm also in staffs too so manybe worth a chat with them?
interesting case study http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page25.html
Loads of luck with your mare, she looks such a kind soul in your pic.
 
Hi there! I know exactly how you feel - when my horse was diagnised with navicular was about 8 years old - initially i was advised to pts but i didnt want to and persisted with trying to get her sound - lucky for me remedial shoeing and 2 years on grass livery seems to have done the trick and now she has been in full ridden work for the last 3 years - i have to admit im probably easier on her than the others (who event and do long distance) but she is a lovely mare who is currently teaching my 8 year old niece to ride (my mare is 16'1) she hacks out and does a few little low level shows jumping and dressage.
I have had a few days where she has come out of the box stiff and 'footy' and she just has those days off - no problem - it doesnt have to mean the end. I have other horses and have sharers to help afford them.
I have, like you, shed a few tears when shes had bad days (ive had this horse since 6 months old) and worry when her time will be up but i never thought shed do this well so now i hardly even think about her navicular!
Good Luck and dont let it get you down - i bought a book on navicular so i could really understand it and it made me feel so much better - if you want to pm me your address ill happily send it into you - ive read it word for word a few times already!
 
Could it be a coincedence that the grass has started to come through ? There is a chance of increased sensativity due to increased sugar.

I believe in barefoot btw it has worked a treat with my mare 4 years down the line after she was stopping at every fence she would have normally flown over she is sound as a pound apart from feeling the odd stone and after worming (which also increases sensativity) While she was at stud the owner said he used to love watching her jump the cross country fences of her own accord when the herd were playing which says it all

Follow your vets advice - however if it is the worst and you don't want to pts you might be able to find someone to take her off you. I remember seeing a thread on here where someone was advertising a good barefoot home for navic cases.

Worth noting my best mates horse has navic and she is in the same boat all shod up etc he just has off weeks but comes back fine

Good luck, she does look a good sort and I know it is agonising deciding the best path to take.
 
It doesn't mean that she's getting worse, just maybe something happened in the field? My boy has it and it comes in waves, sometimes he's very bad and needs bute for walking in the field and sometimes he's fine and can be ridden without bute. I just manage him in the best way I can for his condition and take each day as it comes- he has had it for many years now and he's still working happily. Got a funny story to cheer you up too-

I took him to a county show where we entered the small hunter class, we were pulled in 3rd and after the judge rode him he put him in 4th place, after he handed out the rosettes he told me that he would have put me up to 2nd as he gave him a lovely ride but that on the corner he seemed to feel the ground a little- I was so shocked at being given a rosette at all I blurted out that he had navicular! Instead of saying that he had evented the previous wekend and showjumped 3 days prior- duh.. Anyway, said judge looked horrified and even after a clear and beautiful round over the jumps in the working hunter, same judge did not place us... Felt very stupid indeed and am pretty sure I robbed Oscar of a placing!!
 
My horse is one of the ones taking part in the research project at Rockley farm. PM me if you want to hear more about it or you can look for my previous posts for more detail so I don't bore everyone going on and on about my case all the time. ;-)
 
glosgirl said:
I have heard good things about horses with navicular that have gone barefoot and come sound. Shall try and find the link ...
this site is fab and they are so helpful http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/Rockley_Farm/Changing_hooves.html
this is rather fluffier than I would normally go for, but v interesting http://www.wildhooves.co.uk/hoof-disorders.htm also in staffs too so manybe worth a chat with them?
interesting case study http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page25.html
Loads of luck with your mare, she looks such a kind soul in your pic.
Click to expand...

thanks for that - i forgot to add - i have had her 3.5 yrs - i bought her and within 3 weeks i had her shoes removed by sarah at performance barefoot she was barefoot for 9 months - she never really managed to settle barefoot - she was ok behind but in front has flat sole and never really could manage on any type of stone. She was a nightmare in boots as she does toe in every boot i ever tried twisted and wouldnt stay straight. she was then diagnosed with arthitis in hocks and vet recomended eggbars for hinds so was reshod and tbh was more comfortable for it. she does have a strange very slight sntaching action with hinds because of arthritis and shoes seem to help. went into normal shoes after few months and has stayed in shoes since - if the worst came to worst i would take her shoes off.
 
Farma said:
Hi there! I know exactly how you feel - when my horse was diagnised with navicular was about 8 years old - initially i was advised to pts but i didnt want to and persisted with trying to get her sound - lucky for me remedial shoeing and 2 years on grass livery seems to have done the trick and now she has been in full ridden work for the last 3 years - i have to admit im probably easier on her than the others (who event and do long distance) but she is a lovely mare who is currently teaching my 8 year old niece to ride (my mare is 16'1) she hacks out and does a few little low level shows jumping and dressage.
I have had a few days where she has come out of the box stiff and 'footy' and she just has those days off - no problem - it doesnt have to mean the end. I have other horses and have sharers to help afford them.
I have, like you, shed a few tears when shes had bad days (ive had this horse since 6 months old) and worry when her time will be up but i never thought shed do this well so now i hardly even think about her navicular!
Good Luck and dont let it get you down - i bought a book on navicular so i could really understand it and it made me feel so much better - if you want to pm me your address ill happily send it into you - ive read it word for word a few times already!
Click to expand...


Have pm'd you - thanks. she has been sound in remedial shoes until now - thats great that you dont even think about her navicular and you do jumping too :) - hope i can get mine right again. she got such a lovely temperment just needs a leg transplant!!!!
 
Ladylina83 said:
Could it be a coincedence that the grass has started to come through ? There is a chance of increased sensativity due to increased sugar.

I believe in barefoot btw it has worked a treat with my mare 4 years down the line after she was stopping at every fence she would have normally flown over she is sound as a pound apart from feeling the odd stone and after worming (which also increases sensativity) While she was at stud the owner said he used to love watching her jump the cross country fences of her own accord when the herd were playing which says it all

Follow your vets advice - however if it is the worst and you don't want to pts you might be able to find someone to take her off you. I remember seeing a thread on here where someone was advertising a good barefoot home for navic cases.

Worth noting my best mates horse has navic and she is in the same boat all shod up etc he just has off weeks but comes back fine

Good luck, she does look a good sort and I know it is agonising deciding the best path to take.
Click to expand...

very good point - hadnt thought about sugar - she is very good doer - so she normally has unollased sugar beet, linseed meal and tiny bit alfa a -and then ginger, joint supplements, garlic. so not much sugar at all - dont even have carrots. .... have started her on navilox again now as well as buteX (yesterday)
 
Farrierlover said:
It doesn't mean that she's getting worse, just maybe something happened in the field? My boy has it and it comes in waves, sometimes he's very bad and needs bute for walking in the field and sometimes he's fine and can be ridden without bute. I just manage him in the best way I can for his condition and take each day as it comes- he has had it for many years now and he's still working happily. Got a funny story to cheer you up too-

I took him to a county show where we entered the small hunter class, we were pulled in 3rd and after the judge rode him he put him in 4th place, after he handed out the rosettes he told me that he would have put me up to 2nd as he gave him a lovely ride but that on the corner he seemed to feel the ground a little- I was so shocked at being given a rosette at all I blurted out that he had navicular! Instead of saying that he had evented the previous wekend and showjumped 3 days prior- duh.. Anyway, said judge looked horrified and even after a clear and beautiful round over the jumps in the working hunter, same judge did not place us... Felt very stupid indeed and am pretty sure I robbed Oscar of a placing!!
Click to expand...


well she went lame last tues and it was windy so perhaps pratted in field - now she did have a puffy swelling on that leg and has had for 2 weeks since warm weather - she does have windgalls in the warm weather - now i know that windgalls are supposed to be in pairs of legs but this leg always worse and vet says dont worry about windgalls as long as sound - vet came on thurs - he prodded tendons and nothing wrong there. said perhaps? tweaked tendon sheath? as couldnt see anything else - now since bit colder last few days puffyness has gone - but same lame - well unlevelness - exactly same as when was first diagnosed.
 
OMG what is navicular? I bought a horse from a horse dealer recently, did not get any real information from him. Used the horses sire number to find out where he was stabled before. I called them and they said he had no problems except after big events he would be slightly lame, so they couldn't use him for competitions hence selling him. (I am not competing him and only jump small jumps). Anyway, I found a girl on another forum who used to compete him so she was giving me lots of info on him and mentioned his navicular problem. I had never heard of this before, so please can someone fill me in and do I need to panick big time?????? Thanks
 
Navicular - its changes to the navicular bone (google it will hopefully get you something with a diagram) - the deep digital flexor tendon runs down the back of the leg over the navicular bone and attaches to the coffin bone (pedal bone) - when there are changes to the navicular bone it causes damage to the tendon. this causes caudal foot pain and unlevelness. - it can be caused by low underun heels, which put pressure on the tendon as the horse lands toe first instead of heel first then this in turn can cause damage to the bone - its irreversable - you can in some cases keep horses sound with remedial shoeing or taking them barefoot usually helps if it suits your horse. There is no cure just managing the condition.
 
Sorry your having problems, i used to ride a horse with navicular he too had wedges and was sound as soon as he had them, I hacked him, jumped him did Pc ODE and hunter trials with him, he had the heart of a lion!! He was sound 99% of the time but I had to accept that somedays he wasnt very level so id leave him for a day or 2 and he would be fine, he never needed any medication either.
 
kezimac said:
- the deep digital flexor tendon runs down the back of the leg over the navicular bone and attaches to the coffin bone (pedal bone) - when there are changes to the navicular bone it causes damage to the tendon. .
Click to expand...

Current thinking at the moment is that the tendon damage comes first and this puts stress on the navicular bone. MRI scans are showing horses like mine who have the soft tissue damage but no damage as yet to the bone. It even referred in the report to "tendon damage causing bone stress".

MRIs allow them to see in live horses what they could previously only view in dead horses so they can assess the damage alongside lameness and outcomes over a period of time.

Though who knows, in the future they may decide something entirely different.
 
Quartz - if the dealer didn't mention it that sounds a little naughty of him. Sounds like you found out quite easily that the horse had a long term condition. Did not have any sort of vetting done?
 
criso said:
Quartz - if the dealer didn't mention it that sounds a little naughty of him. Sounds like you found out quite easily that the horse had a long term condition. Did not have any sort of vetting done?
Click to expand...


No stupidly I didn't. The reason being I went with the owner (also my instructor) of my riding school. She has brought numerous horses and ponies from him with no problem. She didn't think I needed to worry about vet checking him. Feel quite stressed about it now, as my first horse and love him to bits already. I am currently looking online at supplements that may help this condition. He hasn't shown any real signs of this being a big problem apart from: Being stiff from one time during a dressage exercise, and lots of head shaking on the return from a hack (not sure if this is actually related, but looked up navicular symptoms on internet and saw this could be one). I am quite light at 8 stone and of small build and he is 15.2 hands so I am hoping that if I am not putting too much pressure on him this may help? Or wishful thinking !!
 
i was advised with mine- watch the ground dont ride on hard ground, no trotting on road, ride preferably only on level ground! so no cantering across lumpy fields. i was also told no jumping - but on here alot of ppl still can jump with their navicualr horses
 
Thanks for that. I don't jump often anyway, and not very high when I do. So may use a school horse for this in the future. Shame about no cantering across fields though, as great fields around here and really wanted to do that. Do you think it is OK to put him out to field rest for 2 months in the summer? I wanted to move him to mine for a couple of months as we have lots of land. Was planning on working him in one of the fields so obviously this is out of the question now. So may just rest him, if this is too long a rest period? What do you think?
 
Depends on the horse - some just manage light hacking in straight lines, some don't even manage that and some manage to do alot more.

If there is no chance of the dealer taking him back (and if he said he was sound I would be trying that) then I suggest you get a vet out to assess and talk you through the options and explain a bit more about the condition. Sometimes because it affects both front feet the horse doesn't look lame as such but is short striding or stumbles. When the vets nerve block then you find out they are lame just that both feet are equal.
 
My old girl had navicular on the day i brought her 14 years ago.... she was fully retired last year at the grand old age of 24.

We have jumped (occasionally when the ground is good or in an arena), we have done loads of dressage, and we have hacked and hacked and hacked - we have galloped and cantered - but i have always been carefull of the ground conditions. We have had times when i thought i would never rider her again, and times when i thought it was the big round up in the sky time - but given a chance to recover and the foot to settle she has usually come "soundish" again.

The darkest hour is just before dawn, and it may be nothing at all to do with navicular - the ground is drying and getting harder, the spring grass is coming through and there is nothing like a good hooley round the field to get their owners worried !
 
I am always writing out my story lol!

Basically my Belgian Warmblood was diagnosed as having true Navicular last year, with holes in his navicular bones.

I was advised an operation which isnt terribly successfull, 1 in 4 chance. Or PTS as he would never become more than pasture sound.

After extensive research, and after trying bar shoes etc, i went the barefoot route. He was crippled at first, it took many months to strengthen up his feet sufficiently. You have to bare with it, if a horse has been shod for most of its life it takes a long time to start to get the sole to callous and strengthen.

1 year later, he is on no medication, hacking doing dressage and competing in showjumping competitions.

Thank god i followed my own instincts, and gave him a chance.

Look up the article 'Digging for the truth about Navicular' by Pete Ramey. Its fascinating, and explains perfectly.
 
i am going to see what xrays show on monday, the farrier is coming to the surgery to reshoe her afterwards (they remove shoes for xray) he will look at xrays and shoe whatever vet says. I have had her barefoot before and although she was ok on a surface was never great on stoney ground at all - very thin soles on front feet and i cant get boots that stay on without twisting. but if i cant get her sound with shoes then in 5 weeks when she due again i will remove them and get a trimmer.

thanks everyone.
 
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