has anyone tried an electric zapping dog collar? at wits' end.

kerilli

kerilli

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i am bracing myself for a deluge of abuse here.
i have 4 perfectly behaved jrts and 1 puppy, 7 months old, patterdale x something (probably foxhound by the looks of her. this is feasible, i checked.) i am experienced at training dogs but she is virtually untrainable, goes awol at will, doesn't come when called. we're not near a busy road but i worry sick about her, it's only a matter of time. i have only ever praised her when she finally comes (sometimes 1/2 hour after all the others have...!)
my fencing is for horses, not terrier-proof, so whenever i take all the dogs up the fields for a run around while poo-picking the fields (1/2 an hour twice a day, a good mile's run for them) she goes through the fencing into the arable fields alongside mine and does what she likes. (no livestock for miles, thank heavens.)
so: i am despairing of training her, and need something to stop her in her tracks at a distance if necessary. calling does nothing, she merrily does her own thing.
if anyone has any experience of zapping collars (ideally with a hand trigger, if possible, not buried under fence - i can't do that for 5 acres!) i'd really appreciate it. i've heard of a jrt having a nervous breakdown due to the buried-wire-under-perimeter type, so would use it very judiciously if i do get one.
any advice hugely appreciated.
 
Have you tried the lead around your waist thing - so essentially the dog is always attached to you? I don't see how the zapper would work in your situation - and my understanding is they are outlawed anyway.

Patterdales are a nightmare - and as for foxhounds, well we know they are pretty untrainable.

I sympathise - it's always so difficult with this sort of problem.
 
i might have to do that, i'll trip over her all the time though! might have to tie her to the Gator all the time maybe, not ideal though.
are the zappers really outlawed? i only want a low tingle to make her think "what's that?!", not a true electrocution!
 
I might be wrong but I'm sure they are. Or maybe it's just here in Wales.......

My friends JRT's were never allowed out of his site as they just couldn't be trusted. So were either always on a lead - or crated, unfortuantely.
 
Electric collars are illegal in Wales I think, but okay elsewhere. I used to be dead against them but have seen one used responsibly with great success on a very difficult GSD. I have held the collar against my wrist and the zap is quite slight, less powerful than an electric fence. However, I would not recommend anyone just goes out and buys one, I think you need to be taught how to use one by a responsible trainer. Suspect in a dog such as yours the hunting instinct might overpower the zap from the collar anyway. Have you thought of trying a collar that sprays water/citronella to see if that does break his concentration enough for you to get a command in?
My first advice would be to get a long line so he just cannot run away, then reward with treats or a toy everytime he does come back to you. It will be a long job but hopefully he will learn that what you say goes. Otherwsie it could be a case of fencing your field with dog proof fencing
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We used a zap collar on our springer spaniel under the guiding eye of a well known dog trainer and it burnt him! so much so he had to be treated by a vet!
Totally against them now!
How about you get him to a training class???
and keeping him on the lead seems a sensible option
 
keeping her on a lead while i'm working on the yard or in the fields is not an option. she either learns to come when called or she stays shut in the house (escapes from the garden) unless i have her on a lead.
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the ones that spray citronella sound good, i'll have to have a look for them!
 
Just a thought - do you have a quad bike??

Another friend has a JRT prone to wandering - but for some reason the sound of the quad bike always brings her running. She gets terribly excited when she hears it - and loves nothing better than to have a good old run next to it.
 
I have used one before on my springer spanial, but never again will i try it again because it worked perfectly. my dog did what yours does. so i tried the coller because i was out of options. It worked perfectly, she would come back when she was called and every thing after only 4 days of useing it. the reason why i will never use such a violent, disgusting form of training again is because now my dog is frightend of everything!!! she consantly has her tail between her legs and never wants to go out side, and when she does, she will never run off and play.
do NOT use one!!! mabey your dog won't have the same reaction to it but do you really want to take the chance. Trust me when i say this, but you would rather have a dog who is happy, than a dog who is afraid to leave your side, and have a bit of fun.
 
I would try using a lunge line first so that if the dog doesnt respond to your first command you can pull it back in, if it still didnt get the idea then I would try a spray collar over an electric one (they are much cheaper as well as kinder).
 
I know this is a silly question but she's not deaf is she? It's just that my sisters jack rat is deaf and they put a bell on her collar so that at least they know where she is. I have an Irish and he is a little tinker about coming back, must be a terrier thing!!!!
 
Have you tried walking off in the other direction like you're going home and leaving her behind? Our JRT has VERY selective hearing (read: totally ignores you!) but if she thinks we're leaving without her she soon hurries after us and then we give her big praise for coming back. She's getting much much better now, the only time she goes "deaf" now is if something really exciting like a bird happens...
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Also, my dog Leah is half GSD and has quite a strong herding instinct, so if Poppy the JRT runs off we just tell Leah "get Poppy!" and she runs of and brings her back!
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Don't know if that would work with any of yours....
 
I think I've done what you've done a few times myself, figured out what usually works with one breed/one sort of personality and then you get another and it just doesn't work the same.

I have no personal experience of training dogs with the help of electric collars, I know there was a suggestion about making them outlawed in Sweden, maybe with some paragraph about that experienced trainers could be allowed to train other dogs to f.ex. stop hunting livestock, but right now I can't remember if the suggestion went through or not. Although I have read about how one of those experienced trainer did use it successfully.
As I recall what I read, when you train and use it, you can't be doing anything else, you must be 100 % focused on what the puppy/dog is doing, so you can zap in the right moment. You must zap preferably that nanosecond when you see that her brain picks up on something, if/when she's already absorbed by the smell and on her way, it's to late. A zap then might still stop her but from a training perspective it is to late. Unless you haven't zapped in the "right" moment first and need to do some sort of follow-up zap.

Anyhow, whether you pursue the electric collar training idea, loose long line and harness or long line/leash attached to you, sadly though all the trouble it causes, I don't think you can have her loose at all, while you do other things as it is now. After all, every time she "succeeds", she learns to do it better and better and if that is something you don't want her to do, you have to stop it straight away because every "success" (according to her) makes it more difficult to re-train her.

By the way, personally if done correctly/in the right hands and with dogs that really needs it, I have no problem with using electric collars as an aid in anti-hunt/-running away training, the problem (as always/in general) is that most people that use it, doesn't do it correctly.

Good luck with your puppy.
 
I agree with everything FLH has said (baaaa!)

It is horses for courses and dogs for collars, it very much depends on the animal - FI, I know my male probably would respond very well to an electric collar if he needed it, but it would probably ruin his sister, like some posts have mentioned.

If you do decide to use one I would highly recommend enlisting the help of a trained professional for guidance and like FLH says, you need to be focused on the dogs behaviour and react at the first moment her attention is being grabbed, not before or after and not as she as running as this will probably prompt her to run more.

There is a bitch at our training club with aggression issues who wears a pinch collar and electric collar at the same time and responds to neither of them
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as well as the fact that her owners, depsite coaching, have no idea when to deploy them - when she is barking and growling, it is too late and the collars act as agitation rather than a correction.

I feel your pain, we had a lab/foxhoundxJRT and we ended up giving her to a friend who lived in a city, as she was completely untrainable and wound our GSD up to chase livestock too.
 
I forgot to say that the trainer I read about, had been checked up and had never had any such bad reactions as mentioned by others on this thread, on the dogs he trained together with the owner (he always controlled the zap button and the owner called their dog/told the dog to sit etc).
 
thanks everyone.
yes, i've tried going home. she just reappears half an hour or an hour or so later, whenever she fancies, sometimes from the lane side (very quiet lane, but again, a big risk... it only takes 1 car.)
this pup isn't frightened of anything really. when she killed one of my pet ducks i told her off, she sat there wagging her tail and grinning. i had to go ballistic and smack her a number of times before the penny slowly dropped and she realised i was annoyed. (i have jrts that worry if i raise my voice, i would never need to smack them.) she killed a chicken 2 days ago (the first one so far, after 7 months of training her not to go near them, i thought i'd got it cracked) and again, i had to go ballistic and hit her with a pair of rubber gloves (satisfyingly noisy) before she realised i was angry.
i'll try the spray collar first i think. the elec collar will be last alternative before giving to a charity or pts.
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the only thing to be careful of with spray collars is if they contain chemicals in the fluid they spray (to make them smell etc) some dogs can have reactions to them

they also cost nearly the same amount as an shock collar and don't work on every dog.
Not trying to put you off using one, just extra info
 
Only read the OP so dont know if I am repeating but we got one for our Rhodesian Ridgeback that would coarse off at any opportunity after rabbits/hares in fact anything that moved so it got to the point where he had to be kept on a lead. He is a big dog and wasnt getting enough exercise that way so we got one.

It worked wonders, he understood fully the word "come" before the collar went on obviously and the first time he bolted off he did get zapped, he came straight back.

He only ever had a zap about 4 times, he would hear the warning bleep and would come straight back after we called him.

Havent had it on him for 3 years now and he comes back fine every time now.

I would advise renting one as we only used ours for a week or two.

I know some people may think they are cruel but not as cruel as the dog ending up causing an accident after running out onto the road
 
We used an electric collar on Bear, after every training aid/trick in the book failed.
The one we went with had 4 functions. 1st was a small light that you could activate to see the begger in the dark.
2nd was noise distraction, it made a high pitch tweeting noise to get the dogs attention.
3rd was a vibrate function, which was the "warning" that gives the "should you continue to ignore me you will get the 4th option"
4th option was the minor shock.
All that said, Bear never pushed past number 2, as the noise caught his attention every time
(and yes it was used under trainer supervision!)
Oh yes, and it was remotely controlled with a small hand held dibber thingy majiggy.
 
[ QUOTE ]
It worked perfectly, she would come back when she was called and every thing after only 4 days of useing it. the reason why i will never use such a violent, disgusting form of training again is because now my dog is frightend of everything!!! she consantly has her tail between her legs and never wants to go out side, and when she does, she will never run off and play.


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If a dog gets this scared after the collar is used then it's either been used wrongly or the dog must have an extremely nervous disposition. For example, if you were walking your dog and it got a thorn in it's paw, or ripped a claw off, would you expect it to be afraid of everything and anything from that day forward? Used correctly at a low setting, as a last resort NOT a training method, the collar causes far less pain than either of those things so don't be put off using one from one persons bad experience. I've used one a couple of times after really good instruction and been 100% happy with the result. I'd say 4 days of use was a long time, don't know what others think? I only used mine on 2 occasions over a space of 3 weeks and that was plenty.

I'd go for a long lunge line round the waist first and try recall from that point. The only problem with using a collar in your situation is that it MUST be used while the dog is in sight so if she's darted off into long grass you can't use it as you don't know the situation the dog is in.
 
I'd say try it. If you're as thorough with dogs as horses I'm sure you've exhausted other options and as posted are at your "wit's end".

If it's started killing then things are desperate. I know this is the nature of the beast in these dogs but we (well my mum, I'm not really "doggy") have a cairn terrier and german wh pointer just now and our chickens are perfectly safe as they recall (although recalling terrier just means shouting "biscuits" as it's ruled by it's stomach
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)...

I'd guess ideally looking to rehome it to a built up area where it was always on a lead would be the best option.

I hope you manage to work something out.
 
You wont get any abuse from me. I've had an electric zapper collar for years, best thing I ever did as my dogs are still alive and kicking and very fit, healthy and happy. This may not have been the case had I not bought the collar.

It worked for me and if I needed to buy another one then I wouldnt hesitate.

My boys (2 dalmations) were very well behaved and generally came back to call but if they got a whiff of anything and they were a fair way away from me then they would just disappear off in to the distance and then go off for hours!

Go out and buy one, it will save your dogs life and save your sanity allowing you to enjoy taking your dogs out and not finding it such a stressful experience!
 
you'll get no abuse from me either as I had a Lurcher many years ago who would go AWOL on walks and even a dog trainer had no success in his recall.

The zapp collar worked well and I only had to use the full shock on him once and from there on 99% of the time he would come back on the audio signal alone. I liken the collars to a snaffle bit - its all down to the hands of the trainer. A snaffle is thought to be a kind bit, but in the wrong hands can cause excruiating pain - the collar is no different.
 
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