Has anyone tried 'naturally' weaning foals?

[jermajay]

I'm not a breeder or anything, just curious.

 

[jermajay]

By naturally I mean let the mum tell the baby to stop feeding, rather than separating them.

 

[Spotherisk]

We left our mare and foal together for over a year, at the end of that the mare went away on loan. The filly was a little subdued for a short while but that was it. Nice way to do it if it’s possibly imo.

 

[benz]

Yes, I had a surprise foal and no facilities to separate. The filly stopped going the milk bar at about 18 months. Mare was back in work when filly was about 6 months and they were in separate stables but turned out together (in a small herd). Did neither of them any harm and was pretty stress free for me!

 

[jermajay]

Awesome thank you! Interesting to hear how long the foal continues to nurse when they have the chance, especially since I believe many foals are weaned at 4 months? I'd imagine that would impact their physical development, as well as being stressful on them mentally.

 

[Asha]

Awesome thank you! Interesting to hear how long the foal continues to nurse when they have the chance, especially since I believe many foals are weaned at 4 months? I'd imagine that would impact their physical development, as well as being stressful on them mentally.

Theres usually a good reason why a foal would be weaned at 4 months. Sometimes things dont always go to plan, and the foal may just grow a bit too quickly. Which isnt good for them. My last years foal had to be weaned early as she was huge, and it could have impacted her joints if she carried on growing the way she did. She was 5 months, and wasnt bothered a bit. She was already out with her granny, who stepped up and really looked after her even more when her mum went away for a bit.

 

[Wishfilly]

You do need to consider the impact on the mare as well, if they have been nursing consistently for 18 months (bearing in mind as well a yearling may take a lot more than a newborn!). In some cases, where I've seen this happen, the mare has ended up quite poor.

It's not necessarily "natural" for a foal to continue to nurse for that long- in the wild, the mare might have another foal at foot by then and so the older youngster would probably not be able to nurse anymore.

 

[Birker2020]

I know nothing about breeding and raising foals but I do remember reading that they did research into it and it was suggested that a foal weaned at 8 months had a much better take on the world and was more independent than something weaned much earlier.

This is interesting reading
https://naturalhorseworld.com/new-ways-for-weaning-foals/

Here is a paper about the subject of later weaning
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7070483/

 

[PoniesRock]

We have weaned at 6 months, providing the foal is ready to leave its mother. In all fairness, we’ve generally found that by 6 months the mare has had enough and in one situation the foal had been such a greedy guts he had really taken his toll on the mare despite her being given all the correct hard feed/field of grass ect.

 

[benz]

Awesome thank you! Interesting to hear how long the foal continues to nurse when they have the chance, especially since I believe many foals are weaned at 4 months? I'd imagine that would impact their physical development, as well as being stressful on them mentally.

I don't think our filly was taking much in the way of milk as she got older, once she was about 9 months it was more of a comfort thing. Both mare and filly were very well and were good doers anyway, if mare was struggling we would have had to find a way to separate. We had another surprise foal more recently (thats what happens when I buy mares from ireland ) and mare was fed up of him by 5 months (he is still a menace 5 years on!) so they were separated by him going out of a day, her of a night and within a few days they had forgotten about each other. So as other posters have said you need to make a decision based on what's happening at the time, but self weaning can work if the mare is well and happy about it

 

[jermajay]

I don't think our filly was taking much in the way of milk as she got older, once she was about 9 months it was more of a comfort thing. Both mare and filly were very well and were good doers anyway, if mare was struggling we would have had to find a way to separate. We had another surprise foal more recently (thats what happens when I buy mares from ireland ) and mare was fed up of him by 5 months (he is still a menace 5 years on!) so they were separated by him going out of a day, her of a night and within a few days they had forgotten about each other. So as other posters have said you need to make a decision based on what's happening at the time, but self weaning can work if the mare is well and happy about it

That makes sense! Did you find the foal who was weaned earlier was more independent than the filly? Was the filly particularly herd-bound to mum or about the same?

 

[jermajay]

Theres usually a good reason why a foal would be weaned at 4 months. Sometimes things dont always go to plan, and the foal may just grow a bit too quickly. Which isnt good for them. My last years foal had to be weaned early as she was huge, and it could have impacted her joints if she carried on growing the way she did. She was 5 months, and wasnt bothered a bit. She was already out with her granny, who stepped up and really looked after her even more when her mum went away for a bit.

I know that racehorses are weaned at about 4 months, and that's pretty much the only breeding that happens around here, but I'm guessing that's more because they begin training early on. I didn't know foals could grow too fast, that's really interesting! What's an acceptable rate of growth? Or was it that the foal was getting fat or something like that?

 

[jermajay]

You do need to consider the impact on the mare as well, if they have been nursing consistently for 18 months (bearing in mind as well a yearling may take a lot more than a newborn!). In some cases, where I've seen this happen, the mare has ended up quite poor.

It's not necessarily "natural" for a foal to continue to nurse for that long- in the wild, the mare might have another foal at foot by then and so the older youngster would probably not be able to nurse anymore.

I remember seeing a video of a herd of mustangs, and the yearling knocked the baby out of the way and tried to nurse off of mum - she gave the yearling a walloping Out of curiosity, what would be the difference between one foal nursing for 18 months, and a foal until a new baby is born? Would it not be about as taxing on the mum? Or would she usually wean her current foal before the new one's born?

 

[Asha]

I know that racehorses are weaned at about 4 months, and that's pretty much the only breeding that happens around here, but I'm guessing that's more because they begin training early on. I didn't know foals could grow too fast, that's really interesting! What's an acceptable rate of growth? Or was it that the foal was getting fat or something like that?

I don’t know anything about racing yards , but I can’t imagine weaning at 4 months has anything to do with them starting training .
the issue with growing too fast isn’t that simple . They can grow too fast and the ligaments can’t stretch as fast as the bones grow . Or they can develop epiphysitis. Where the joints start to get inflamed which in turn can lead to all sorts of developmental issues .

 

[jermajay]

I don’t know anything about racing yards , but I can’t imagine weaning at 4 months has anything to do with them starting training .
the issue with growing too fast isn’t that simple . They can grow too fast and the ligaments can’t stretch as fast as the bones grow . Or they can develop epiphysitis. Where the joints start to get inflamed which in turn can lead to all sorts of developmental issues .

Interesting! How do you know they're growing too fast though? Like is it height or? And I'm not too sure about the racing, I asked the lady I worked for but didn't question her much...and I quit on bad terms, so can't clarify haha.

 

[Asha]

Interesting! How do you know they're growing too fast though? Like is it height or? And I'm not too sure about the racing, I asked the lady I worked for but didn't question her much...and I quit on bad terms, so can't clarify haha.

puffy/swollen joints

 

[milliepops]

my homebred was weaned at dead on 6 months. by that point it was very much comfort nursing rather than taking much from the mare. she continued to look for that from her (male) companion for a while afterwards if she was unsettled. the mare was sick of her at that point and marched off without a second glance at weaning time. i could have left them for longer as mare was doing well, condition-wise, but given her feelings about it and the arrival of a weaning buddy it made sense to go for it at that point.

Mare and filly were reunited after just over a year and are now quite good friends but filly never looks to suckle.

I'd consider leaving the next one on the mare for longer but I don't think you can really make plans ahead of time because there are so many variables.

 

[PurBee]

My foal was separated at 6/7 months, then rejoined his dam a few months later, with a herd. The (experienced with previous foals) dam told him to get off once she knew he was growing well on his own.
Even at 18 months old, i saw him make moves to milk, and she moved her legs and hind away saying firmly ‘no’.

 

[jermajay]

my homebred was weaned at dead on 6 months. by that point it was very much comfort nursing rather than taking much from the mare. she continued to look for that from her (male) companion for a while afterwards if she was unsettled. the mare was sick of her at that point and marched off without a second glance at weaning time. i could have left them for longer as mare was doing well, condition-wise, but given her feelings about it and the arrival of a weaning buddy it made sense to go for it at that point.

Mare and filly were reunited after just over a year and are now quite good friends but filly never looks to suckle.

I'd consider leaving the next one on the mare for longer but I don't think you can really make plans ahead of time because there are so many variables.

I've seen a few people mention comfort nursing so far. I did a quick google but couldn't find anything (on horses, at least) What is it, exactly? Foals choosing to nurse to release stress, similar to licking and chewing? Or maybe something similar to grooming, where it's bonding with the mother? Something completely different?

 

[maya2008]

We weaned when mum had had enough - she was snapping at her foal when she went to feed and was generally getting grumpier. She loaded onto the box to leave without a glance backwards and the foal barely noticed she had gone (especially as the grumpier mum had become, the more time the foal had spent with her ‘auntie’). There was no calling, no sign of distress, just immense relief for the mare (who needed to gain weight, grow, get some time to herself). In our situation we possibly could have left it to happen naturally, but by removing mum for weaning to occur, both parties were happier and reunited well afterwards.

 

[milliepops]

I've seen a few people mention comfort nursing so far. I did a quick google but couldn't find anything (on horses, at least) What is it, exactly? Foals choosing to nurse to release stress, similar to licking and chewing? Or maybe something similar to grooming, where it's bonding with the mother? Something completely different?

someone with more experience may know more. For me, i saw her do it when she was unsure or stressed by anything. Mine was a bold and confident foal from day 1 so not much bothered her, but occasionally she would get a bit anxious and then go to look for mum for a suckle. e.g. after worming (which she wasn't overly stressed by, but you do have to insist all the paste goes in even with a wriggly baby that doesn't want it!) or if she had a fright. I think it was a way to seek reassurance.

 

[SusieT]

Pretty sure the foal 'growing too fast' on mothers milk is a myth - it's entirely natural for foals to grow rapidly at that age. Weaning early is only likely to stunt growth if foal is stressed and stops feeding properly.

 

[SusieT]

In an ideal world all foals would be weaned naturally in a herd- it helps them develop skills including recognising when another horse is pissed off in a safe environment (i.e. mum self weaning). The older foals get the less they suckle, the more they free feed and mostly it becomes a brief comfort suckle .

 

[jermajay]

In an ideal world all foals would be weaned naturally in a herd- it helps them develop skills including recognising when another horse is pissed off in a safe environment (i.e. mum self weaning). The older foals get the less they suckle, the more they free feed and mostly it becomes a brief comfort suckle .

Do you think that the herd environment is very important to the natural weaning process? Like, would having the mare and foal on their own make it less likely for the mare to wean them herself, as opposed to having her in a herd with other horses? And do you think it matters if all the horses are adults, or if the foal has some peers? In the few articles I read on weaning, they mentioned it being much easier with a group of foals, rather than just one. That was the artificial weaning though.

 

[benz]

That makes sense! Did you find the foal who was weaned earlier was more independent than the filly? Was the filly particularly herd-bound to mum or about the same?

I don't recall the filly being particularly bothered if mum was there or not, although as I say when younger she would have a little 'comfort suckle' say for example if they had just been turned out after being in stable all day, but this stopped by the time she was about 18 months. The gelding who I still have does like to explore a lot with his mouth I dont recall the filly being like that, could that be a 'symptom' of early weaning? (he was 5 months but big strapping lad and mum was fed up of him). Both youngsters were quite independent, I think it's more their personality rather than anything to do with how they were weaned. I think if weaned properly (ie not just rocking up one day with a trailer and taking foal away to another yard and considering that weaning!) it shouldn't be very distressing for either mare or foal so shouldn't traumatise them, although I always thought it would considering how social horses are (maybe I was mentally scarred by Black Beauty ). Interesting discussion though!

 

[jermajay]

I don't recall the filly being particularly bothered if mum was there or not, although as I say when younger she would have a little 'comfort suckle' say for example if they had just been turned out after being in stable all day, but this stopped by the time she was about 18 months. The gelding who I still have does like to explore a lot with his mouth I dont recall the filly being like that, could that be a 'symptom' of early weaning? (he was 5 months but big strapping lad and mum was fed up of him). Both youngsters were quite independent, I think it's more their personality rather than anything to do with how they were weaned. I think if weaned properly (ie not just rocking up one day with a trailer and taking foal away to another yard and considering that weaning!) it shouldn't be very distressing for either mare or foal so shouldn't traumatise them, although I always thought it would considering how social horses are (maybe I was mentally scarred by Black Beauty ). Interesting discussion though!

The mouthiness would be an interesting thing to explore, whether or not it's related to weaning, hard to tell with only two of course but it would make sense!

 

[Wishfilly]

I remember seeing a video of a herd of mustangs, and the yearling knocked the baby out of the way and tried to nurse off of mum - she gave the yearling a walloping Out of curiosity, what would be the difference between one foal nursing for 18 months, and a foal until a new baby is born? Would it not be about as taxing on the mum? Or would she usually wean her current foal before the new one's born?

I'm by no means an expert but my understanding is that most pregnant mares will wean their foals earlier, and have a fully "dry" period between foals, if left to their own devices. Mares who aren't pregnant are less likely or slower to wean their foals naturally. So the mare wouldn't be producing milk for 18 months straight. Weaning tends to coincide with the pregnancy becoming more taxing on the mare. I think having mares, foals and yearlings in a "wild" herd type environment is very different to how most mares are kept in the UK, so it's hard to draw comparisons.

In the mare I've seen who had a foal on her for a very long time, the older foal was also eating her own feed, then taking a lot of the mum's feed etc, making it hard for the mare to get enough nutrition. The mare didn't seem to have any desire to wean naturally without being pregnant, and ultimately they were separated (gently) when the foal was about 12 months for the sake of the mare.

 

[stangs]

There are lots of studies on the physiological and behavioural effects of different weaning techniques - have a look on ScienceDirect, OP - and they all suggest a slower approach to habituate the foal to separation, making sure the foal has companions around, are better for it.

I suspect that a completely hands-off natural weaning approach can fail in domestic horses, because many mares won’t have learnt how to wean a foal: they wouldn’t have been weaned naturally themselves, and it’s unlikely they would have been turned out with other mares with foal at foot whose behaviour they could imitate. Domestic herd dynamics have many differences to feral horses’.

 

[YorksG]

Not horses, but "pet" sheep, when two of ours had lambs (unintentional, result of a wandering tup from next door!) They weaned the lambs themselves and the lambs did still suckle for comfort if they'd had a scare. Both ewes eventually told them to bog off and they now just live as a group of adults.

 

[Caol Ila]

We weaned my BOGOF in January, at seven months old. I'd read that at least eight-to-nine months is ideal, and he definitely didn't seem ready at six months. But by seven months, he was a lot more independent, he was obnoxious, and he was running her down. She was losing lots of weight and whatever I fed her seemed to go straight into him.

They had been out with the livery mares' herd since he was six weeks old (I was advised to not do this, but in the end, I didn't have much choice, and after a few exciting moments early on, they settled, and he had a pile of aunties who gave him far more discipline than his lackadaisical mum...I dread to think what he would have been like without his aunties....my mare was one of those moms who lets her kid get away with everything). So, when we decided weaning had to happen, we moved Mom to a different part of the yard, and he stayed with his aunties. He hardly noticed. She was very upset and wasn't much fun to handle. For about two months. I guess she lost her son, her friends, and she was a teen mom with too many hormones and no life experience. Over the course of a month or so, foal was slowly introduced to the gelding herd and integrated into that group. He crossed paths with Mom a couple times, and they got very wound up, until one day they didn't. Maybe seven/eight weeks after separation. At that point, he was happily in the boys' herd, and she was re-introduced to the mares' herd, who shared a fenceline. That was March. All went fine. She found her brain again, so we could finally resume training.

We have since been on lots of walks with the foal, and they always whinnied at each other whenever one was led passed the other's field, and whoever was in the field would run to the fence. But the one you were leading kept their cool. At the same time, we could take them their separate ways without any drama. They were close friends, but they didn't need one another. On Friday, he left for Germany because his owner had to move back there. But had she stayed, I am sure Mom and son would have stayed friends.