Hat or no hat? That is the question.....

[Booboos]

But i think that's my point. We can pull people to pieces for all sorts of choices they make in their life. I for one can never understand why anyone would choose to smoke, it's disgusting, it's expensive and inevitably it will probably kill you. But i don't get on my high horse about it when others choose to.

Smoking is a personal choice, and it's accepted by most people, even though it's a bigger known killer than not wearing a hat whilst riding.

So why do people get so upset about riding without a hat, but not smoking?

We do restrict smoking in ways that have to do with making an impression on others. For example, advertising for smoking is not allowed on TV, TV shows and films avoid showing people smoke especially in a gramorous, positive light, smoking is heavily taxed to discourage people from doing so, loads of money is spent on educating young people about the dangers of smoking in the hope they will chose not to smoke, etc. So we both think that others have a choice on whether to smoke or not and we say they are wrong to chose to smoke and take steps to discourage them from doing so.

Saying that someone has a choice, is not tantamount to accepting that any choice they make is as good as any other. Some choices are less wise than others and, inevitably, this will be pointed out. In some circumstances, e.g. from one friend to another, we expect other people to point out our unwise choices and they would be remiss if they didn't do so.

 

[little_flea]

Very well thought out post, as always Booboos (I can see why you are in your current profession! ;-)

I guess the dangers of not wearing a hat in comparison to smoking/drinking/being overweight doesn't really ring true because the process of dying from self-induced health problems is much slower and also something that can be at least partly reversed if behaviour changes, and it is also very much a grey area and a process - you won't unexpectedly drop dead just out of the blue by being overweight - you will most likely be aware of the lead-up to this point and the signs of danger can often be enough to change behaviour - so at which point, some "remorse" has been shown and steps in the right direction have been taken, the person "deserves" treatment...

Importantly, smoking/over-eating etc are also types of addictions, whereas riding without a hat is not. Just putting on a hat when you go for a ride is a much smaller sacrifice than giving up over-eating/fighting alcoholism - these are deep-rooted psychological issues that are behavioural manifestations of all sorts of issues. The choice to not wear a hat is nothing like that. But very few of us are completely logical in our choices in life - I would never get on a horse without a hat, but I do ride my bike in (not very heavy, but still) traffic without a helmet etc.

 

[flyingfeet]

So we both think that others have a choice on whether to smoke or not and we say they are wrong to chose to smoke and take steps to discourage them from doing so.

Yes but if you are smoking pre-made cigarettes you are using a filter to lower particulates, which make them 'safer' (or make you inhale deeper and get more addicted depending on your train of thought!), so kind of akin to wearing a hat!

Not wearing a hat is like smoking roll ups - i.e. you take the full risk.

I have no issue with people wanting to bash their brains out, but I do have an issue with selfish people not considering their family and taking a basic precaution.

Interestingly when seat belts were made compulsory there were people complaining about their civil liberties. Its just change and when all children use hats, and everyone competes in hats this old school thought will eventually wither away.

 

[ChwaraeTeg]

I have just finished reading these 16 or so pages with great interest.
.
Am not sure if this is the place to post a link which will help those who have been affected by head injury and brain damage.
.
It happened to me. Fractured skull, long term coma , on a life support system.
Unable to walk,talk, feed, dress or communicate for quite a while.
.
Was I wearing a hat ? YES.
.
I saw that television programme on BBC2 last week. I just would like to say, there is always hope.
Meantime, once I was well and truly on the mend, my brother sent me this....
It is a book you can download for free and was a great help for me and my family..
.
http://www.tbiguide.com/index.html
.
If the link has to be removed, please send me a pm and I will send it to you.
( I Hope and pray you will never need to use it )
Tegs

 

[Flame_]

I love the hat arguments. Oh the hypocrisy. The example a few pages back, (was it melanie griffith?) is an argument for why we should all stay on the flat and not go tear-arsing around fields leaping large fixed fences, not an argument for why we should all have hats on.

The point about how much we want to take care of ourselves and not be a burden on our families would have some credibility if we all stayed at home knitting and doing sudoku. Horsey people face dangerous situations daily left right and centre but we never give it up. Who here has been mobbed in the middle of a field by a gang of narky horses, more than once and still goes in fields without a hat and tazer gun?

The argument about being a burden on the tax payer - Does that stop people boxing, skate-boarding, smoking, crossing the road at a pelican crossing before the green man comes on, riding explosive horses on the road that just floored the jockey (major hypocrisy)?

Danger surrounds us all the time. People take their chances. Obsessing about the vital need to wear a hat whenever you get on a horse won't stop you getting run over by a bus.

Why don't people get as wound up about riders who willingly remount horses that chuck them off - neck and back injuries can cause a few problems as well, its not just heads - than riders who will only ride horses which operate fairly safely and like not to put a hard hat on?

 

[Flame_]

Yes but if you are smoking pre-made cigarettes you are using a filter to lower particulates, which make them 'safer' (or make you inhale deeper and get more addicted depending on your train of thought!), so kind of akin to wearing a hat!

The idea of inhaling the "safer" cigs deeper also translates to riding or risk taking in general. Fit ABS brakes to a car so its safer. Soon the driver learns his/her limitations have altered and will drive that bit quicker in wet conditions. Sell a rider a hat, it might make them now feel safe enough to jump, hence their risk factor evens out.

All just examples, probably not explained very well, but say from now on everyone had to ride with no hats and no saddles, wouldn't most of us just slow down and be careful quite a bit? Not try picking that fight with an arsey 5 year old? Go for the gap not over the thick hedge? Maybe even stay in walk on 35 year old cobs? I bet the number of accidents would soon even themselves out to about the same as they are now, as the chances we choose to take relate to the safety equipment we have.

 

[MochaDun]

Hat always. Because I value my life and I want to reduce the risk of me, through an accident, which could happen even wearing a hat I know, putting my family and friends through possible hell.

I've seen and experienced enough in my life both within my own family and others families from just the normal stuff happening - eg, sudden death, disease, mental health problems, accidents etc to know the life changing impact and repercussions such things can have as they ripple on through life for ever more. And yes you could say that is just life events happening but if I have some control over certain things that come with a risk factor attached and there is a way I can reduce the risk then I will take them. Life is too short and sometime challenging enough without major problems for "what if's".

 

[bahumbug]

Life is too short and sometime challenging enough without major problems for "what if's".

Quite! Couldn't agree more ( especially here as an ex-smoker and ex-no hatter LOL)

 

[MegaBeast]

ditto the comments re smoking, and as for CKD....i heard she was riding on a concrete walkway between two arenas when the accident happened, not actually in an arena.....

and was she not riding a youngster?

Can't remember if I posted on this earlier as only read the last couple of pages but I still maintain you're in more danger being around horses on the ground than being on top doing flatwork. Roadwork and jumping is a different story.

However, some riders are probably more at risk on the flat than others as they're more likely to be unseated by a spook etc. I can honestly say I've not fallen off on the flat since I was a child (probably been about 15 years or more), and have only come off whilst jumping less than half a dozen times in the last decade. I don't mean to sound arrogant but I don't believe it's particularly risky for me. I seem able to stick on pretty much anything, and I've ridder some very sharp and unpredictable horses on a daily basis. Saying that I do wear a hat always, except for BD where I wear a beagler purely because I like the look of it.

 

[ChwaraeTeg]

............................ I can honestly say I've not fallen off on the flat since I was a child (probably been about 15 years or more), and have only come off whilst jumping less than half a dozen times in the last decade. I don't mean to sound arrogant but I don't believe it's particularly risky for me. I seem able to stick on pretty much anything, and I've ridder some very sharp and unpredictable horses on a daily basis. Saying that I do wear a hat always, except for BD where I wear a beagler purely because I like the look of it.

no offense MegaBeast, but you sound just like me 15- 20 years ago.
I always had "stickability and such tenacity in any situation. People used to bring me problem horses to sort out for them etc etc...
I have started and trained more horses than I can remember ... but there was one day when a freak accident occurred when I was in my 30s ,that changed my life forever.
My horse fell on me.
.
It was just lucky that I was wearing my hat.
This is a post I started :
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=385501

 

[bahumbug]

no offense MegaBeast, but you sound just like me 15- 20 years ago.
I always had "stickability and such tenacity in any situation. People used to bring me problem horses to sort out for them etc etc...
I have started and trained more horses than I can remember ... but there was one day when a freak accident occurred when I was in my 30s ,that changed my life forever.
My horse fell on me.
.
It was just lucky that I was wearing my hat.
This is a post I started :
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=385501

Oh gosh, I started this thread as was rather appalled by Pammy Hutton's comments in HH column, so hope you are not offended. I think it is an interesting discussion. I read MegaBeast's post with that 'oops, be careful what you say' feeling.
Chwarae, as one who has similar background to you but fortunately without the life changing accident, I can't guarantee I'll never have a bad accident, no one can, but I'm going to make damn sure I minimise the risks. Thanks for adding to this, as to all who are speaking from authority/experience. Some of the stories on this thread have been very moing, I hope it has made some of the 'unconvertables' rethink..but it is up to the individual (to take the option not to be darn stupid LOL)

 

[MegaBeast]

Oh gosh, I started this thread as was rather appalled by Pammy Hutton's comments in HH column, so hope you are not offended. I think it is an interesting discussion. I read MegaBeast's post with that 'oops, be careful what you say' feeling.
Chwarae, as one who has similar background to you but fortunately without the life changing accident, I can't guarantee I'll never have a bad accident, no one can, but I'm going to make damn sure I minimise the risks. Thanks for adding to this, as to all who are speaking from authority/experience. Some of the stories on this thread have been very moing, I hope it has made some of the 'unconvertables' rethink..but it is up to the individual (to take the option not to be darn stupid LOL)

Thing is, the point I'm making which gets totally ignored is that for quite a lot of riders the risks of being mounted doing flatwork is a lot lower than that of being on the ground picking feet out and doing general jobs around horses. This seems to get ignored and until someone can prove otherwise then I'll carry on wearing my beagler for BD and proper hat at home!

Yes, freak accidents occur, can happen in any sport. Eg dinghy sailing (something else I do) there is a very high risk that you might get whacked over the head by the boom (which believe me hurts and can knock you out/split your skull/knock you unconscious into the water) which is why beginners are normally encouraged to wear safety helmets but once you go beyond that level there is no question that you don't wear one. Nobody would even dream of it, well I know one elderly bloke that does but nobody else.

So, I have assessed the risk, found it acceptable to both me and my family, am aware of the consequences etc but I'll continue to wear my beagler for BD, which is probably on average once a month!

 

[Starbucks]

Sounds like it's all about image to me...

Have ridden on the odd time without a hat for a few reasons. But I think the dressage people do so because they think it looks good.

 

[ChwaraeTeg]

People who are around horses have a choice.

It matters not a jot if they think they look smart with a hat, or cool without.
The choice is theirs
(and I do not judge that choice) ......

As long as it is an INFORMED choice,
that they are AWARE of consequences.

and that they will NEVER need to use the link I posted.

Happy horse keeping everyone

 

[Lexie81]

I'm a mum. Going hatless doesn't even come into the equation. As far as I am concerned my kids and my husband don't want to end up looking after me due to my stupidity at the end of the day.

100% agree with you. I am a mum to a 7 year old, I owe it to her to stay safe, and to ensure she ALWAYS wears a properly fitted hat when riding.

 

[MilosDad]

I love the choice debate on this issue.
You can choose to sky dive without a parachute too.
Remember that your choice has to include your family and friends, so do be sure to ask everyone if they are cool with looking after you for the rest of your blighted life following your avoidable head injury sustained while riding without a hat.

 

[Booboos]

I'd like to re-iterate that I believe people should have a choice whether they were a hat or not, but in that context, what is the cost of wearing a hat? If the cost is minimal, why not wear it anyway?

I suppose a small number of people may suffer from headaches from hats and for a few days a year it may be very hot and uncomfortable to wear a hat, but for most of the time the cost of wearing a hat seems to be a flattened hair style which doesn't seem like much of a cost.

 

[amage]

The people who say that they don't have people relying on them....what about you horse/horses/other animals? If you're in a coma or being rehabilitated costing thousands what will happen to them?!? And fwiw I do know of a case where insurance refused to pay out as injured party was not wearing a hat!

 

[SO1]

the smoking arguement does not make sense there are a lot more people that smoke than don't wear riding hats so you would expect more people to die of smoking related diseases than non hat wearing accidents. a lot of people taking up smoking at a young age where perhaps they do not understand the risks and then become addicted and are unable to give up even if they want to.

smoking is very bad for your health and had we known what we do now about smoking when it was first introduced it would have be banned as would have alcohol!

 

[manes&tails]

i've always thought about this one.

I'll admit that i have galloped across a grassy field, bareback, with no hat. And yes, that probably was really quite stupid. But each individual with a horse has a unique situation compared to others. I trusted my pony, new the risk and would accept the consequences.

If you want to guarantee no riding accident, the answer's simple. Don't ride. People still have accidents and die whilst wearing hats and body protectors and every other possible saftey contraption. it is rare, but it can still happen.

We used to live in italy where they hardly ever wear hats, jumping 1metre 50 or above and galloping flat out on hacks. now that we are back in the uk and i am older, i always wear a hat, but hardly ever a body protector as i have been winded and jabbed so many times. I feel i can roll better if i fall off without the restriction, however i would wear one if we did some serious x-country.

i feel that if someone chooses to ride without a hat i would leave them to it. I hate it when safety conscious people interfere with you. Once two women at a yard came up to me and my friend asking us why we werent wearing reflective vests, even when we had not stepped foot on a road and had been riding in a wood in broad daylight!?

i dont judge people and let them get on with their lives. Obviously if someone was doing something drastic or completely ridiculously stupid, then i may step in and advise them, but thats just common sense

 

[manes&tails]

The people who say that they don't have people relying on them....what about you horse/horses/other animals? If you're in a coma or being rehabilitated costing thousands what will happen to them?!? And fwiw I do know of a case where insurance refused to pay out as injured party was not wearing a hat!

very true!!

 

[SuperSketch]

Hat.

No question about it. I value my life too much to ever get on a horses back without one. I couldn't bear the thought of being a burden on my family with the horrendous consequences should the worst happen if I ever did decide to go hatless.

 

[redcascade]

I know what a controversial subject this is but I fell off my horse yesterday who i know extremely well and am very much in pain today despite wearing my hat.
This is the fall:

My hat afterwards, note the dents on the band, not visible from the outside:

Despite wearing my hat a have a bad headache, a bruise on my forehead(next my fingers on pic) Have bruised the bridge of my nose, my eye and there's a bruise coming up on my cheek too, I also have a sore neck. My face this afternoon:

I know it's a matter of choice but I can't imagine what would've happened if I wasn't wearing my hat, the horse landed on me and pushed my face into the sand, 17hh of muscle, TBxWB is not fun in this instance! Please learn from my experience which could have been much worse, there is the entire sequence in NL and CR if anyone's interested

 

[bahumbug]

Please learn from my experience which could have been much worse

Red Cascade I hope you are over it soon, very dramatic to look at. It was that sort of incident that changed my mind against chancing it sans hat. I hope people looking at this will think again too if they have not made a decision already.

Best of luck to you!

 

[redcascade]

Thanks bahumbug, replacing the hat tomorrow, and will be getting back on as soon as my neck allows, I will NEVER get on a horse without my hat again, not even breifly as I've experienced it first hand WITH a hat and know how much it hurts

 

[Cadburys_addict]

Hi
Following on from the above fall and I hope you feel better soon, my horse threw me off over his head onto a hard track - i landed on my shoulder and back mainly but I know that I hit my head as my flourescent hat cover had a nice big muddy mark.....although my head didnt take the brunt of my fall, I dread to think what could have happened had I not been wearing it.....I could have been knocked out or worse.....I did replace my hat afterwards as I didnt feel it would give me the right protection should anything else happen.....I sure as hell ached for days after

It may be people's individual choice when it comes to wearing hats but in my opinion I value my hat just like I value putting my seat belt on when I drive my car because you never ever know what could happen....

 

[Flame_]

I know what a controversial subject this is but I fell off my horse yesterday who i know extremely well and am very much in pain today despite wearing my hat.
This is the fall:

OK, you had a bad fall and your hat made the injury less serious.

Why isn't everyone up in arms about you jumping? If you hadn't been jumping, your horse wouldn't have fallen and you wouldn't have needed your hat to protect your head.

Glad you're OK, btw.

 

[redcascade]

I agree with your comment about jumping Flame_ but... look what happened to Courtney King Dye? She's a top rider and was meerly schooling a horse on a surface when it slipped and fell, putting her in a coma. The question is, if she was wearing a hat could the coma and thousands of dollars and heart ache on behalf of the hopsital and her family been saved?
I know that it's really none of my business what other people choose to do, it's their head at the end of the day, but, if people see what happens with a hat they may wonder what would've happened to me without one. None of my business but I'm still sat here with a headache over a day later
Thanks, so do I

 

[imafluffybunny]

I used to ride proffesionally in Germany, I never wore at hat, I rode exceptionally well schooled horses up to Grand Prix, I DID however come off once when the horse threw a hiss fit, totally out of the blue and hit my head off the side of the indoor school.
Personally, I now always ride with a hat, I dont think its an excuse to say my horse is well schooled, they are unpredictable animals.

Its your choice at the end of the day.

 

[burtonse]

i always wear a hat when out hacking or jumping or when riding an unfamiliar horse. i generally dont when in the arena flatting horses i ride every day. my main reason for this is the likelihood of me falling off in this situation is much much lower and when i have several horses to ride i end up with a sweaty head and a headache on a daily basis esp in the summer.

As others have said, its up to the individual to choose as its their head!