Having the Wool Pulled? - Muck Heap Disposal

Tarandes Bear

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Views please on muck heap disposal please. Someone I know is having to pay to have their muck heap taken away. It's not been removed for at least 2 years to my knowledge, so up until now has just been gradually increasing in size. Apparently no-one wants 'it', as it is mainly made up of wood pellets. Rumours of straw is best as it breaks down and farmers are willing to spread this on the land but nobody wants any muck that contains wood pellets! I am led to believe that wood pellets actually biodegrade FASTER than straw. Can see this heading in the wrong direction and tennants possibly being 'forced' to use a certain type of bedding to keep someone happy, which in turn will cause all sorts of problems, - mainly to do with allergies etc. How do you dispose of your muck heaps please? I have heard of people with substantial size yards actually burning the muck heap annually reducing it to ash. I can't help but feel this person is being taken for a ride, as I'm sure the person taking the muck away will be profiteering quite nicely .... Your thoughts please :)
 

Evie91

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I pay to have mine removed. Farmer now provides me with a trailer, when it's full I give him a call and he takes it away. Charges £40.
Most people I know pay for it to be taken away
 

Honey08

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I have no experience of wood pellets, but straw seems to be preferred by farmers around here to shavings. I've had our muck heap spread on our land twice, once straw, once shavings, the straw rotted down quicker. We usually dump it in a corner of a field that we can't use for the horses.

Ps, we have burned muck heaps years ago, but you'd need to move it from the yard anyway, and beware that they don't go out for ages, think days..
 
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WelshD

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I *think* that wood products when they rot down rob the soil of nitrogen causing an imbalance and therefore undesirable for farmland

Of course I could be getting confused....

I rely on my heap to rot down over summer when the ponies live out but its getting rather large now so will no doubt have to be removed at some point
 

numptynoelle

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I think that wood pellets can affect the nitrogen levels in the soil, unless they've been rotted for ages, like 2-3 years? so gardeners may not want them in manure. (Will try and find the link where I read this to support this, and willing to stand corrected if I have this wrong)

ETS: cross posted with WelshD!
 

catroo

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I've always paid to have muck heap taken away regardless of the bedding used, using straw just meant is would decompose quicker so less track loads to take away
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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Burning in the open air is not really an option, it does not break down well as it does not heat up like straw and muck.
There is a cost, no one wants it, and anyone who takes it away is going to charge.
 

Tarandes Bear

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Thanks you both, for answering so far. I should have made myself clear. While I know (and the other person), realises it's common practice to pay for muck heap removal, I'm shocked to hear that nobody (allegedily!), wants to spread their fields with horse manure that contains wood pellets ! I've never heard of such rot ! Thanks, please keep the answers coming
 

Tarandes Bear

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Numptynoelle, If you can find that link sometime I'd appreciate it, thank you :). I pretty cr*p at this responding stuff, how do I just reply to an individual comment? oh lol !
 
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be positive

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A local farmer takes away my muck heap, it is mainly straw which is preferred, as for paying I have paid for the removal as it takes time and equipment to move but more recently it has been free, I think they have found it beneficial as a fertiliser as we leave it for 2-3 years.
If it was wood pellets then I don't think it would be collected free, as it is not so good for the land as straw, I would expect to pay a contractor the going rate to remove and hope they know someone happy to have it spread on the land, otherwise what about them spreading onto the rented land, as long as it can be rested for a while it would be ok.

I dont think whoever is taking it away will be making much profit out of selling it, if they are worried about losing out then they could load it up and try and sell it to local gardeners, my friends son has just got rid of their heap this way but I think he delivered it by trailer for a token amount.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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The wood pellets are essentially sawdust, this is cellulose, cellulose is not a good fertiliser, it removes nitrogen from the soil, nitrogen is a nutrient that is required for plant growth.
It can't be put on crops, but can possibly be disposed of by spreading on a field which is going to be ploughed, but it is not a fertiliser.
It costs money to uplift and then money to be spread, so it is not a good by-product.
 
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honetpot

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Most councils are really keen on recycling, I rung a grab man who tried to tell me they would bury it, any way he gave me a quote of £175+vat, I have another chap coming tomorrow.
My friend got Charged £200 to move her heap, it turned out about 200yards to one of his fields. Normally I get rid of mine no problem but we have just most and I do not know the local allotment people.
 

numptynoelle

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Tarandes Bear

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The wood pellets are essentially sawdust, this is cellulose, cellulose is not a good fertiliser, it removes nitrogen from the soil, nitrogen is a nutrient that is required for plant growth.
It can't be put on crops, but can possibly be disposed of by spreading on a field which is going to be ploughed, but it is not a fertiliser.
This is good. Just what I wanted to hear - hoorah ! Thank you !
 

MotherOfChickens

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other posters are quite right-while wood products are rotting down, they actually deplete the soil of nitrogen. Wood products need to rot down for a couple of years, preferably more.

straw/micanthus pellets could be used instead. Or there are various chopped products (hemp, rape straw etc) and yes, you have to pay someone for their time and machinery to take it away. Alternatively, advertise it locally to gardeners and make sure that they know it needs composting if it still contains wood products-they will take it away for free.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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Most councils are really keen on recycling, I rung a grab man who tried to tell me they would bury it, any way he gave me a quote of £175+vat, I have another chap coming tomorrow.
My friend got Charged £200 to move her heap, it turned out about 200yards to one of his fields. Normally I get rid of mine no problem but we have just most and I do not know the local allotment people.
Burying it is fine, what are they going to do with the soil they remove to make a hole?
 

FfionWinnie

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Horse muck is worthless in the scheme of all things muck. We would charge to remove any sort of muck heap and I don't think we would be keen on wood pellets. If you really want to get into, it you need a licence to remove it as well.

Last place we did there were haynets and all sorts of crap in the muck heap. My oh had to spend an hour cutting them off the spreader at the end of a day. Nice job. Not!
 

Honey08

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A big yard I worked on used to have the muck heap removed for free by a mushroom farm, but they wouldn't touch shavings muck, we had to have two muck heaps.
 

outinthefens88

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I think that wood pellets can affect the nitrogen levels in the soil, unless they've been rotted for ages, like 2-3 years? so gardeners may not want them in manure. (Will try and find the link where I read this to support this, and willing to stand corrected if I have this wrong)

ETS: cross posted with WelshD!

As regards nitrogen levels in the soil being affected by the wood breaking down, this is correct as the high carbon content of the wood takes away nitrogen from the soil for the rotting process to work and on arable fields could be an issue as would affect the NPK balance of the fertiliser that needs to be applied for the following crop.

Also the horse urine would be very concentrated in the pellet bedding, which could also have an effect.

In these days of 'fully traceable farming' very few farmers want to risk putting anything on their land that is not on an approved list where nutrient contents can be referred to.

Farmers could also be concerned about the issues with spreading it - ie would their muck spreader be able to distribute it evenly or would it clog into a solid lump in the bottom of the machine?

Wet wood chip (as i imagine wood pellets would also be) as VERY heavy, you would need a teleporter or similar with a bucket to load them, not a muck fork or grab like many farmers use for straw muck heaps.

The same issues discussed above can be created by spreading 'green' (ie freshly chipped) wood chips on gardens/amenity area - its 'locks up' the nitrogen in the soil, depriving it from the plants that need it.

These are issues that I know about as it is an industry that I work in.
 

numptynoelle

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As regards nitrogen levels in the soil being affected by the wood breaking down, this is correct as the high carbon content of the wood takes away nitrogen from the soil for the rotting process to work and on arable fields could be an issue as would affect the NPK balance of the fertiliser that needs to be applied for the following crop.

Also the horse urine would be very concentrated in the pellet bedding, which could also have an effect.

In these days of 'fully traceable farming' very few farmers want to risk putting anything on their land that is not on an approved list where nutrient contents can be referred to.

Farmers could also be concerned about the issues with spreading it - ie would their muck spreader be able to distribute it evenly or would it clog into a solid lump in the bottom of the machine?

Wet wood chip (as i imagine wood pellets would also be) as VERY heavy, you would need a teleporter or similar with a bucket to load them, not a muck fork or grab like many farmers use for straw muck heaps.

The same issues discussed above can be created by spreading 'green' (ie freshly chipped) wood chips on gardens/amenity area - its 'locks up' the nitrogen in the soil, depriving it from the plants that need it.

These are issues that I know about as it is an industry that I work in.

Thank you, that was my (very rough) understanding of it (obviously you put it far better and clearer!). I hadn't considered the traceable aspect of it, but that makes sense too.
 

popsdosh

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Any farmer taking it away will require a licence to do so . The yard it comes from would technically be in trouble if they dont have a licence as you should get a waste transfer note for it. We get asked all the time to pick up heaps but refuse to do so as the repercussions are to great if you get caught. If you think anybody taking it away is making a fortune dream on a ton of straw bedding horse muck has nutrients that are worth about £3.50 to the farmer and large cost in moving and spreading. If it was wood based bedding the farmer would have a cost of about £6 ton in nitrogen depletion.
 

Sussexbythesea

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Although it is correct to say the breakdown of cellulose/ organic matter by bacteria will deplete the soil of nitrogen this is only temporary. Once it is broken down nitrogen will again become available for uptake by plants. It is the same for any organic matter just wood pellets probably take longer as drier and has more carbon than straw. If your muck heap is already well rotted then it shouldn't be a problem if it isn't it can still be spread as a soil conditioner but nitrogen may need to be added if the crop needs nitrogen at that point but later the crop will benefit from the more slowly released nitrogen. Often farmers will store it for a lot longer in a field heap until it has broken down a lot more and is ready for spreading.

Burning and burying are both illegal.
 

popsdosh

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Burning and burying are both illegal.

They are not I know of two local yards who have EA permits to burn muck heaps and muck can go into landfill if you are happy to pay the charge.
Just to clarify farmers can only leave it heaped for 12 months maximum and are controlled on where the heaps can go.
We have so many council run recycling places around here with composted wood waste that they are having to dispose in landfill because the farmers wont take it . They have just started paying farmers to take it plus the councils are paying for spreading its not so much the nitrogen that needs replacing but the fact it is so variable in its needs that nobody can accurately apply nitrogen to a crop.
 
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Sandstone1

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I've looked on verdo, white horse and lwp websites, they all say that wood pellets make excellent fertilizers. They say it rots down quickly and is suitable for spreading on land. Surely they can't say that if it's not correct?
 

popsdosh

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I've looked on verdo, white horse and lwp websites, they all say that wood pellets make excellent fertilizers. They say it rots down quickly and is suitable for spreading on land. Surely they can't say that if it's not correct?

They will have P & K as well but nothing gets over the nitrogen issue for farmers. Of course they will say its wonderful fertiliser,so wonderful they have huge piles of it with nowhere to go.
 

Sandstone1

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They will have P & K as well but nothing gets over the nitrogen issue for farmers. Of course they will say its wonderful fertiliser,so wonderful they have huge piles of it with nowhere to go.

I may be being thick, don't know what p and k is. Just saying what wood pellet suppliers say about muck heap disposal. Surely they can't all be lying.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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There are three main fertiiser constituents: N is nitrogen, P is phosphates and K is potassium.
Straw and muck tends to rot down in about a year, and it continues over years if left in a heap.
The wood pellets might break down eventually but the fact is that the product is not popular.
 

Tarandes Bear

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These are just the answers I wanted, brilliant. But yes, were are these muck heaps finally being disposed of? An answer (on here I think), mentioned ploughing it through the fields? Wood pellet bedding is brilliant & I'd never, through choice, use anything else.
 
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