Head shaking- its driving me crazy!!!

[karsl rowan]

I'm seriously at my wits end so any help, advise or hopefully someone who has been or is in a similar situation.
I have a 6 year old welsh section A mare. SHE'S GORGEOUS in every way but she head shakes so much when being ridden it's getting almost impossible for my children to ride her.
It's not her teeth....she has them done every 5 yes 5 months.
It's not her back. ..that's checked often too!
She has no ear mites.....checked
Her tack fits correctly

She shakes in a head collet on the lunge as well as in a bridle (I've tried bitless) no difference.

I've been googling as you do and the only thing that I can see that's a possibility is something called......

Trigeminal-mediated headshakers

Is anyone familiar with this???

Again any comments welcomed.

 

[karsl rowan]

Forgot to add.....she's ridden in a nose net as we original thought it was pollen related. Sometimes i think it helps but then yesterday she was terrible. Toss g her head and rubbing her nose on her legs etc.... when she was bought back in the stable her nose was being rubbed around the walls and she was blowing a lot more than usual.
I've tried antihistamines. .... no joy 😕

 

[milliepops]

There are lots of threads on here if you do a quick search I think I'd get a vet to give her the once over sometime. Especially if she seems quite distressed.
Mine headshakes in bright light. A fly mask over her eyes helps her greatly. Might be worth a try? I have a face mask that fixes to the bridle that she wears as soon as the sun comes out.

 

[flaxen]

Is she vertical headshaking? Has she suffered a fall or trauma to her head at all? Is she insured? My pony suffered a rotational fall in mid October where we were doing some fast work with a friend and he put his leg down a concealed hole and landed on his head. Following this he changed personality and behavioural wise. He went from a sweet kind natured pony who my 3 yr old toddler could lead and would stand for hours being groomed and fussed with ( at one point in the summer holidays he had 5 kids all grooming different bits of him at once! ) to a pony that was wired! He didn't settle, wouldn't stand tied up, pulling back and flinging himself from side to side, shook and dithered and took to bolting when being lead, he wouldn't settle in the paddock either alone or with company and just paced up and down or in circles! He was also head shaking in a figure of eight. ( I didn't realise this was classed as head shaking until later on )

It took weeks for me to get someone to listen to me that there was something wrong and he wasn't being " a typical welsh pony ( section c ), he is insured and after having bloods run as an initial start which showed he was anaemic and had had a bleed somewhere he was then referred to an equine surgeon who realised that he was head shaking but peculiarly and booked him in for a endooscope including guttural pouches, gastroscope and head/ cervical xrays. I had also been to a talk with Professor Knottenbelt who I spoke to about it and who was interested and asked me to keep in touch with him and send him everything we found.

Beginning of December by this point on endoscope it showed there was a swelling pressing into the right side guttural pouch and no sign of ulcers on gastroscope. He then went for a ct scan of his head which showed he has fractured/ crushed the back of his skull right where the nerves insert through his skull into the base of his brain ( this injury has never been seen or documented before ) and these nerves were being interfered with and had also had a bleed. He came home on high levels of a neuropathic pain killer which was then doubled as it did nothing and then he was put on to top end dose of steroids to see if these did anything to reduce any inflammation.

His behaviour was getting worse to the point where I couldn't do anything with him in the stable as he just flew round me in circles, still did hid figure of eight head fling, he was constantly twitching and wriggling his muzzle and rubbing it on things and started doing funny things after he had eaten ( almost like he was trying to eat his tongue because he didn't know if he still had food in his mouth or not ), tied up he just flung him self around and flattened me and after a discussion with Prof DK and my vet ( they are now all involved and DK updated on a daily basis with along with video evidence at his request ) he has been readmitted to the vets, given Osphos to see if it makes any difference ( used in certain navicular cases to control lay down and resorption of bone ) to the new bone that is being laid down at his fracture site and messing with his nerves/ brain stem and he will be reassessed in February ( im away on a prebooked trip that was going to be cancelled but was told to come on as I need a break from the stress as order by vets! ) when im back. If hes not improved sufficiently for me to be able to safely handle him then we will call it a day. From the day of his scan report ive been told his prognosis is poor.

Sorry for the essay in reply. I just thought Id give you the full story. If your pony is insured then it may be worth asking your vet to email Professor Knottenbelt for his opinion though I know that head shaking is a very hard thing to diagnose exactly why they do it.

 

[milliepops]

Good lord, flaxen. That sounds awful. Hope you get some positive news soon.

 

[Clodagh]

That is very interesting, Flaxen, and very sad. Best of luck.
My horse (11 years old now) has retired due to headshaking. He used to only do it when the rape was out but it progrssed over a year to now doing it when he eats. He also does it when scared or worried, he always has been head shy and sensitive.
I have tried magox and salt, both help a bit. Remember they are doing it because it hurts, I imagine it is like when I have acute hay fever and I get pains up my nose, but their noses are so big and sensitive it must be agony.
There was something in H&H recently about doing something to the trimegial nerve, only last month I think, you may be able to track it down. My boy isn't insured and has various other problems so when it gets too bad I will have him PTS, but hopefully not for a while yet.

 

[shannonandtay]

A friends pony started shaking last winter, was scoped and found to have rhinitis, her nostrils were very inflamed, she was on medication and it took a couple of months to completely heal and she has stopped shaking but always needs to be kept as dust free as possible.

 

[popsdosh]

A friends pony started shaking last winter, was scoped and found to have rhinitis, her nostrils were very inflamed, she was on medication and it took a couple of months to completely heal and she has stopped shaking but always needs to be kept as dust free as possible.

Must admit the OPs does sound to be a classic case of a true headshaker,and it appears it may be light induced.
Is it worse on bright days?, Try riding at dusk to see if she is different!
I see you are in Derbyshire as talk to your vet and maybe get her referred to Liverpool as DK is doing a lot of work on this condition and I am sure would be interested. There are different techniques they are trying and where sunlights involved they have been fitting contact lenses. The cutting of the nerve is another technique but not to be taken lightly as the operation is invasive and not cheap.
Above all remember she is doing it because she is feeling intense pain and cannot help it!!!

 

[karsl rowan]

Thank you to you all...I've been reading over all your posts. I'm totally bombarded to be honest.
I'm pretty certain she's better in the dark I'll pop my son on her Wednesday night to see. I've decided to keep a diary of weather conditions and log how she goes so I have something to refur to when I show the vet.
Thankfully pony is insured.

Popsdosh - yes I'm in derbyshire. Who's DK? Sorry but my brains turned to mush tonight!

 

[karsl rowan]

Ah ha....prof DK! !

 

[karsl rowan]

Flaxen..thank you for your detailed message how terrible for you. I'm certain she's not fallen and her "every day" personality Is perfect...I'm going to call Liverpool tomorrow.see if I can bypass my vets without a refur Al. I e heaps of video footage if need be x

 

[karsl rowan]

Strange question maybe but did your ponies improve with turn out? Or did you find them worsen in the sun /daylight?
My mare a peers normal during the day she only seems to shake during exercise??

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I'm seriously at my wits end so any help, advise or hopefully someone who has been or is in a similar situation.
I have a 6 year old welsh section A mare. SHE'S GORGEOUS in every way but she head shakes so much when being ridden it's getting almost impossible for my children to ride her.
It's not her teeth....she has them done every 5 yes 5 months.
It's not her back. ..that's checked often too!
She has no ear mites.....checked
Her tack fits correctly

She shakes in a head collet on the lunge as well as in a bridle (I've tried bitless) no difference.

I've been googling as you do and the only thing that I can see that's a possibility is something called......

Trigeminal-mediated headshakers

Is anyone familiar with this???



Again any comments welcomed.

LOADS previous headshaking post and tips here >>>>>>>>.http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/h.html

 

[kal40]

Bit late to the conversation here but I thought I would let you know.

My sisters horse is currently being treated at Bristol for headshaking. Its experimental but the insurance company are paying for the treatment. The vet performing this treatment is having success and I believe other practices around the country are considering offering this treatment.

If are interested in finding out more, let me know and I can get the full details from my sister.

 

[shergar]

Forgot to add.....she's ridden in a nose net as we original thought it was pollen related. Sometimes i think it helps but then yesterday she was terrible. Toss g her head and rubbing her nose on her legs etc.... when she was bought back in the stable her nose was being rubbed around the walls and she was blowing a lot more than usual.
I've tried antihistamines. .... no joy 😕

At the top of this page you will see a search box click on the red magnifying glass when the next page comes up type in where it says key words HEAD SHAKING and click search you will find more threads .
There ,was a thread some time ago head shaker sorted .the pony was rubbing its head on its legs turned out the pony had blocked tear ducts that is not something that I would have thought of .
Our pony used to head shake when ridden ,that stopped when we had her wolf teeth taken out one was broken.

 

[karsl rowan]

Hi kal40..... that would be very helpful. Thank you. I've sent you a request so may b ewe could speak further.
Regards

 

[rosiesue]

Hi I am new here so hello but just had to post and say take a read of www.calmhealthyhorses.com interesting articles on headshaking there. Worth a read for sure. Good luck

 

[Noodlebug]

My horse is being treated at the moment as he has been headshaking after his has been exercised!! This has been going on for a couple months but has become progressively worse. The vet has put him on a Danilon trial which has helped but only if he has two before he is ridden. They have now taken bloods and are coming to watch him being ridden and lunged. He feels very stiff to ride in the school and is not happy to strike off into right canter and when cantering on both reins he feels like you have really push him to keep going. On the Danilon this is very much improved. He has also been very funny about having his head brushed although yesterday he was funny in the morning but couldn't care less in the evening!! In himself he seems fine and the vet has said to carry on riding but there is no fun in riding a horse that you know has something wrong with it and I can't bear the headshaking afterwards!! He broke a front incisor late last summer although he has always had two dead teeth so not sure if it broke because it was dead or because he run into something!! He has had problems with his jaw that affects his canter but has never affected him eating and all the vets say that it is seems fine. My osteopath treats it and it is remarkable how much better he feels after and when she came a couple of weeks ago she thought his jaw was the worse it had been for years. I feel like I am going round in circles and constantly analysing everything he does!!!

 

[karsl rowan]

Noodlebug. I think headshaking has to be one of the most fustrating things for horse owners. My mum found something online yesterday I'll see if I can attach the link it make brilliant reading.
http://www.equiwinner.com/headshaking.htm?gclid=CJXsgpH4w5wCFUYA4wodh18XoA

Have a read of this...... I'm trying to print it off as I need to high light so many areas and speak to the vet. It doesn't sink in reading it from an pc I need to have it in my hand lol

My mare has been on rest since I wrote the initial email. I can't bare it....... she booked into see the vet again next week. I just need someone who knows what there talking about and not so.eo e that points out back teeth pollen etc
I'm 99.9% certain it's to do with her trigeminal nerve.

Last week I turned her out in the menage whilst I worked another pony. It was a sunny cold day. She started trotting around with no signs of head shaking or rubbing her nose.so I moved my attention to her. I kept her going g for a few more laps in trot and then canter..still nothing. Another 5 minutes or so later (mo that she had warmed up abd started blowing alittle) she started tossing her head up abd down rubbing her nose on her legs etc
I took her back inside. So I'm now keeping a diary to help me recall weather conditions etc so ive got some sort of evidence!
I am one fustrating person and my children are upset that they can't ride her.

 

[karsl rowan]

Sorry noodlebug. ..Danilon as is but? ??

 

[Noodlebug]

Sorry do you mean is Danilon bute?? Yes it is just another anti inflammatory drug. I have a diary and the only thing that it points to being ridden but always occurs after not during. Yes he does flick his head some times under saddle but is does do this when he is tired or if his tight somewhere. The only other time was when he was really galloping around the field. The weather doesn't seem to make a difference it was lovely and sunny yesterday and nothing!! He doesn't do it when he comes in, we tend ride in the evenings when it is dark but also have ridden when it is bright - same!! The danilon does seem to help so it looks like a pain response. If he is referred it just depends on where he goes. I am with Rossdales so they will want Newmarket however the RVC is just up the road! I also feel like I am being a neurotic owner when I speak to the vet who has actually seen him headshaking and didn't think he was distressed however when I look at him twitching and flicking his head, not eating and looking upset I disagree!! He also always twitches along his left side up by his withers and always looks that side as well.

 

[PonyIAmNotFood]

My loan mare is a headshaker, ended up with a hood on her head, nose net and fly mask over the top. This does stop her shaking and she's happy in it. We do look like we're about to go hold up a bank though!

 

[Clava]

I have completely cured by TB mare who previously headshook for 3 or 4 summers by feeding salt in the spring. If I stop the salt she is likely to start again, but last year no flicking at all, she was transformed.

 

[flaxen]

Did you manage to get your pony referred? Unfortunately treatment for my beautiful boy hasnt worked and due to an incident on the weekend where he was lucky to comeout of it uninjured we are now waiting for permission from the insurance to let him be at peace as hes beoming a danger to himself and anyone who deals with him.

 

[vanrim]

have you considered gastric ulcers?

 

[kal40]

Hi kal40..... that would be very helpful. Thank you. I've sent you a request so may b ewe could speak further.
Regards

Hi - Ive responded to your request - let me get all the information from my sister and I will drop you a line. Her horse just got back on Wednesday after having another treatment. I haven't spoken to her properly so I will have a chat to her before I message you.

 

[megs22]

My sisters competition horse head shakes when the tiny midges are around, he hates anything flying around his face and as soon as the weather warms up he becomes a nightmare to ride unless his whole face is covered.

 

[JCWHITE]

Megs22, what cover are you using for the horse who hates the midges flying into its face, (same here)

 

[JillA]

Contact Jenny Paterson at Calm Healthy Horses http://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/neuro/head_flick.html she has done some research and has helped Becky Holden with her headshaker. She might offer a few suggestions.

 

[megs22]

She uses a nose net and fly mask from equilibrium.