Heart bar shoes and he feels even worse!

[IrishMilo]

Can you post some photos of the feet? Are they flat or concave? Are the heels low or underrun? The two aren't the same. What's the state of his frog like? Small and contracted or wide? I think like Michen said you need to do loads of research as it sounds like if you get his feet sorted that will help massively.

I understand the concept of shoeing for support, e.g. a wedge to raise the heels and what not. I don't believe that remedial shoeing has never helped any horse, there are plenty of cases to read about out there where it has.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If the heart bar shoes are making him worse, then they need to come off ASAP.

Question is, replace with what for now?

ETA You have my full sympathy, I’ve had enough hair pulling out episodes trying to navigate my way through the best way to manage wonky horses .

 

[Mule]

If you could get a pair of boots to stay on for turnout then that sounds ideal. Cavallos can be used with insert pads when needed. 12 mm ones are good and thick. It would be well worth a try. If he is worse in heart bars its important to get them removed asap. They don't get along with some horses. If he is comfortable in boots he won't be doing any damage to himself and it will give you time to think things over. You can measure, then hire a pair to make sure they fit then purchase second hand.

 

[Mule]

Mine is 9 and the Arthrimed coffin joint injections in both fronts have definitely helped. She has a multitude of issues too, starting with poor foot balance.

Is still turned out part time in hoof boots, sometimes without.

View attachment 53571

I'm in awe of how well those boots fit ?
The beast would still be barefoot if we had found ones that fit.

 

[SEL]

I'm in awe of how well those boots fit ?
The beast would still be barefoot if we had found ones that fit.

Also in awe. Mine tends to trot like one of those overshod Tennessee walking horses in her boots. BUT they are giving her the protection she needs to help with whatever has caused the navicular damage.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm in awe of how well those boots fit ?
The beast would still be barefoot if we had found ones that fit.

Just very lucky with the boots. Treks suit all my 3. I now have such an extensive collection of them in sizes 2 to 6 that my OH has put up 3 more wall cupboards in the feed room to store them all .

She was trimmed yesterday, and I’ve put her back in boots - I don’t know if she’d feel her feet without them or not but I want her moving as well as possible after her recent SI joint and hock medications. She’s grand in the boots. Chiro vet here on Mon to treat her.

Feet as today after trim. They were very long toe/low heel 11 months ago after my barefoot trimmer dalliance.



And garbed up for turnout today.



I hope you don’t mind the thread diversion, OP, but as a fellow wonky horse owner there may be stuff of interest with how I manage mine.

In the New Year I said that she must be reliably field sound by the end of the summer or I would let her go. She got an extension due to the Covid hold up in her treatment. Fingers crossed.

 

[ycbm]

TP I would be extremely unhappy if my horse had to go back in boots after every trim. A horse really shouldn't be less comfortable after a trim than it was before. Does your farrier give you any explanation why he continues to trim in a way that makes the horse uncomfortable until something s/he's taken off regrows?

 

[ester]

I don't see where TP said she was uncomfortable after trimming? She says she doesn't know if she is or not?

 

[Tiddlypom]

The horse has very compromised feet after her previous poor farriery (when out on loan) and barefoot trimming (with me).

These are her feet a year ago when the barefoot trimmer dealt with her. He was not much bothered when I mentioned that she was sore after he trimmed her. Just look at that breakover .





This farrier has worked wonders on a horse that the vet had said would always be crippled out of shoes. She has very thin soles. Whilst she has not been MRI’d, there is almost certainly internal damage after the previous professionals let her down. He has restored the foot balance and she is more comfortable each time after he trims her, and hopefully she will soon not need to be booted at all. She has to heal herself.

He is leaving the heels alone as much as he can. He has been dealing with her since November - initially he put shoes on at the vet clinic directly to X rays.

Her most recent foot balance X rays are two weeks old - all good, and the horse was moving well out of boots on the workup.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don't see where TP said she was uncomfortable after trimming? She says she doesn't know if she is or not?

This. She appeared to be fine but I booted her to be on the safe side - I want her moving as freely as possible after her SI and hock medications, so am taking no chances. This is probably her last chance, as she is getting very fed up with having needles stuck in her.

There is a saying ‘lameness leads to lameness’ - we are trying to make her as comfortable as we can so that she is no longer saving bits of herself and making herself wonky. If boots can help us get there, then that’s great.

ETA We have learnt to leave her no longer than 4 weeks between trims in the summer as she grows a lot of foot. 6 weeks is fine in the winter.

 

[Mule]

Just very lucky with the boots. Treks suit all my 3. I now have such an extensive collection of them in sizes 2 to 6 that my OH has put up 3 more wall cupboards in the feed room to store them all .

She was trimmed yesterday, and I’ve put her back in boots - I don’t know if she’d feel her feet without them or not but I want her moving as well as possible after her recent SI joint and hock medications. She’s grand in the boots. Chiro vet here on Mon to treat her.

Feet as today after trim. They were very long toe/low heel 11 months ago after my barefoot trimmer dalliance.

View attachment 53707

And garbed up for turnout today.

View attachment 53708

I hope you don’t mind the thread diversion, OP, but as a fellow wonky horse owner there may be stuff of interest with how I manage mine.

In the New Year I said that she must be reliably field sound by the end of the summer or I would let her go. She got an extension due to the Covid hold up in her treatment. Fingers crossed.

Her hooves look great.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thanks all.

Really interesting to read the comments! My vet has agreed it’s worth taking the shoes off and booting for now, my farrier has been great. Although he did say he doesn’t have poor feet, I always thought he did and my old vet said he did. He is completely confused as to how he’s worse as he should feel better, and is happy to try shoing anther way or taking them off and trying barefoot.
I did notice he won’t walk down the field straight now, he zig zags! I haven’t ever seen him do that before.

I’ll attach some photos of his feet. The best I have.. this is since his heart bars were fitted.

 

[Gloi]

Thanks all.

Really interesting to read the comments! My vet has agreed it’s worth taking the shoes off and booting for now, my farrier has been great. Although he did say he doesn’t have poor feet, I always thought he did and my old vet said he did. He is completely confused as to how he’s worse as he should feel better, and is happy to try shoing anther way or taking them off and trying barefoot.
I did notice he won’t walk down the field straight now, he zig zags! I haven’t ever seen him do that before.

I’ll attach some photos of his feet. The best I have.. this is since his heart bars were fitted

You will probably find the Robert Bowker podcast posted on here today interestimng and useful.

 

[Tiddlypom]

How is he today, FH? Your farrier and vet both sound supportive. I know that heart bars can help some horses, but they do look rather alarming close up, don’t they.

My mare is doing very well 3 weeks after her SI and hock medications. Had chiro vet visit today, sound on trot up (no hoof boots!!) on the hard and much, much better in all three paces on the lunge on the soft. Have a program of in hand exercises to do to help re-educate her whole way of moving. She had been under threat of PTS if I couldn’t get her reliably comfortable, but I am cautiously feeling a lot more optimistic about her now. Chiro vet commented on how much happier and more relaxed she was.

I hope that you find a way forward for yours.

 

[palo1]

I don't feel like I can go ahead and take shoes off without consulting him, isn't it such a huge risk?

FWIW I don't think taking a horse's shoes off when they are clearly not working is a huge risk. You do risk having a horse that you can't ride so much and you may well need to turn your horse away for a while in the field and then monitor how things are going on easy going to start with. At the moment you don't have a happy horse so I would be very keen to remove shoes, turn away for a bit and then use boots and conservative management to try to get his feet 'better' enough to either work barefoot or booted. You might find that in time he could be re-shod or that he copes fine. Sadly there are no guarantees with any horse but taking his shoes off and seeing if he can grow a foot that supports what he needs is likely to work better for him. There are so many horses that this has worked for, you may feel much more confident about that approach than one which is not working at the moment.

 

[ester]

the photo angles aren't great but they certainly don't look like bad feet that certainly couldn't go bare to me. And if they can't there is booting/the EFC shoes I posted.

I'd take them off, not trim, measure for boots and acquire some ASAP so you have them if you need them.

 

[Gloi]

Just very lucky with the boots. Treks suit all my 3. I now have such an extensive collection of them in sizes 2 to 6 that my OH has put up 3 more wall cupboards in the feed room to store them all .

She was trimmed yesterday, and I’ve put her back in boots - I don’t know if she’d feel her feet without them or not but I want her moving as well as possible after her recent SI joint and hock medications. She’s grand in the boots. Chiro vet here on Mon to treat her.

Feet as today after trim. They were very long toe/low heel 11 months ago after my barefoot trimmer dalliance.

View attachment 53707

And garbed up for turnout today.

View attachment 53708

I hope you don’t mind the thread diversion, OP, but as a fellow wonky horse owner there may be stuff of interest with how I manage mine.

In the New Year I said that she must be reliably field sound by the end of the summer or I would let her go. She got an extension due to the Covid hold up in her treatment. Fingers crossed.

be interesting to see the heels and soles on those feet.

 

[Tiddlypom]

be interesting to see the heels and soles on those feet.

I‘ll take some later .

Vet had said that due to her flat feet, weak heels and thin soles she didn’t think that she could ever hack it without shoes. Latest lateral X rays show an improvement in the concavity since Feb, when her brief session back in shoes ended. Her frogs and heels look a lot beefier than they were. The boots have been an invaluable interim measure.

ETA I’m not anti shoeing, but shoes did not seem to be helping my horse. She’d walk out grand when they were first put on, then get less good as the weeks went by. Medicating her front coffins with Arthrimed has been very beneficial.

 

[ester]

oh good more hoofy pics.

Fwiw I'm not anti-shoeing too in the right circumstances.

 

[HashRouge]

FWIW I don't think taking a horse's shoes off when they are clearly not working is a huge risk. You do risk having a horse that you can't ride so much and you may well need to turn your horse away for a while in the field and then monitor how things are going on easy going to start with. At the moment you don't have a happy horse so I would be very keen to remove shoes, turn away for a bit and then use boots and conservative management to try to get his feet 'better' enough to either work barefoot or booted. You might find that in time he could be re-shod or that he copes fine. Sadly there are no guarantees with any horse but taking his shoes off and seeing if he can grow a foot that supports what he needs is likely to work better for him. There are so many horses that this has worked for, you may feel much more confident about that approach than one which is not working at the moment.

I agree with this. He's already unsound and uncomfortable - what have you got to lose?

I'd get his shoes off asap, then get him measured up and order boots and pads. Then you can start getting him out and about, start slowly at first then build him up gradually. I'd also look at his feed and make sure that you have got him on something low in sugar, with a good balancer like Forage Plus. Then just see how he goes. The best piece of advice I can give is to be patient - start walking him out in hand or long reining and build him up slowly. Don't expect him to do anything without boots on at first (though he might surprise you!). You may even need to boot to walk to and from the field and, if the ground is hard, he may need to be turned out in boots for a bit too.

My sister is in the process of doing this with a very, very sensitive TB gelding. She's just had a bit of a setback with an over-zealous trimmer (something to look out for!) but he has improved a huge amount without shoes. His foot balance was really off when shod and he went through regular periods of low level lameness. I visited about a month ago and was astonished by how well he is moving and how sound he is now the shoes are off. He was being booted for hacking and for walking to and from the field (very stony yard/ track) but was fine in the field and being ridden in the school without boots. My sister doesn't know if it will be practical to keep him without shoes long term, but she wants to give his feet as much time to improve as possible and so far it really does seem to be working.

 

[Tiddlypom]

be interesting to see the heels and soles on those feet.

OP, I apologise if I seem to be butting in on your thread, but seeing as I also have a wonky horse who the vet reckoned needed bar shoes, I hope you don’t mind.

This homebred 9yo horse has been out of work for over 2 years, and is in the last push to get her at least field sound. Rideable again will be a bonus. Seems to be going well, fingers crossed.

Front coffins medicated Feb, SI joints and hocks medicated 3 weeks ago. Now moving the best the chiro vet has seen her do in 2 years. Small stone bruise on off fore which does not seem to be troubling her.

Careful eye kept on central sulci, with use of Red Horse sole cleanse, hoof stuff, artimud as required.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

How is he today, FH? Your farrier and vet both sound supportive. I know that heart bars can help some horses, but they do look rather alarming close up, don’t they.

Funnily enough.. a lot better. He is in work (Someone said said hes out of work, obviously when he was sore he had quite a few days off until he was happier) I rode yesterday and he felt a lot better. Nothing has changed, unless hes just grown in the foot or had a stone bruise - I've noticed stones easily get wedged in heart bars! I'm not sure the reason but hes been running about his field, and a handful to lead. I think my farrier is going to come out and try pads this week, before taking the shoes off. Last change, before trying barefoot..

 

[Tiddlypom]

Really pleased that he’s more comfortable now.

It can be a such a roller coaster journey with these wonky neds, I hope that the improvement continues however you decide to proceed .